EMSRV 7.2.x 64-Bit/32-Bit compatibility and performance

Hi,

at the moment we use 32-Bit VA 8.6.2 but plan to migrate to 9.x 64-Bit hopefully in the near future. Some questions regarding this topic:

• Can we use a 64-Bit EMSRV 7.2.x to manage our  VA 8.6.2 repositories and/or 32-Bit VA 9.x repositories? Or do we need a 32-Bit EMSRV for 32-Bit VA repositories.
• Is there a performance increase to expect concerning WAN performance? In the past we learned that it's no good idea to have a lot of hops between EMSRV and VA. So we decided to use Virtual Machines located "near" to EMSRV. Is that the path to chose still?

Greetings,

"Can we use a 64-Bit EMSRV 7.2.x to manage our  VA 8.6.2 repositories and/or 32-Bit VA 9.x repositories? Or do we need a 32-Bit EMSRV for 32-Bit VA repositories."

- The internal layout of a repository is not sensitive to  32/64-bitness.
- The communications between a 32/64-bit image and the EMSRV server via socket protocol is not sensitive to 32/64-bitness.
- The communications between a 32/64-bit image and a repository via FILE I/O is not sensitive to 32/64-bitness.
- Therefore, yes...you may use any mixture of 32/64-bit clients to connect to any 32/64-bit EMSRV instance (or direct via FILE I/O) that can manage any ENVY repository.

"Is there a performance increase to expect concerning WAN performance?"
- No. This is a ENVY protocol issue.  Given the granularity of messages in the protocol along with the expected levels of repository view consistency at any time in the browsers, its not really a possibility to achieve this in any satisfying way over WAN without a dramatic redesign of the ENVY protocol and usage in the image.

- Today, there isn't really a VCS that attempts this at the WAN level the way ENVY would.  Everyone expects to be working locally and reconciling differences with some remote repository.

- We (and many of our customers) do the same where we work locally over FILE I/O in our own ENVY repository.  We then push to a remote Instantiations repository.  

- Remote logins "near" emsrv is still a recommended option if you are not going to be using our Tonel/Git support, which anyone working with distributed teams should be considering.

Tonel/Git

https://github.com/instantiations/tonel-vast

- We have more and more customers joining us in this Instantiations-sponsored project providing Git support and integration with VAST.

- Its designed to augment, not replace, ENVY.  Teams can use this to facilitate distributed workflows and integrate with existing tooling like CI and so on.

- We will be having a supported feature for this coming to VAST 2021.

Other team members who work directly on Tonel/Git monitor this forum and can answer any questions you may have concerning it.

- Seth

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 4:51:51 AM UTC-5 bonndias wrote:

Hi,

at the moment we use 32-Bit VA 8.6.2 but plan to migrate to 9.x 64-Bit hopefully in the near future. Some questions regarding this topic:

• Can we use a 64-Bit EMSRV 7.2.x to manage our  VA 8.6.2 repositories and/or 32-Bit VA 9.x repositories? Or do we need a 32-Bit EMSRV for 32-Bit VA repositories.
• Is there a performance increase to expect concerning WAN performance? In the past we learned that it's no good idea to have a lot of hops between EMSRV and VA. So we decided to use Virtual Machines located "near" to EMSRV. Is that the path to chose still?

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Hi  Joachim,

Below, you will find a response I sent to a customer some days ago. Some of the info will overlap with what Seth already said, but it may add some more useful points:

==================================================================

Envy over WAN is known to be very slow. But I will give you some options to try:

1) Many of us work remotely and, if we need to connect to the office ENVY server, we remote desktop in.  Trying to do a VPN WAN connection with ENVY, is usually too slow.

2) ENVY is just a chatty protocol that was only ever intended for LAN, so we have to work out ways to make the WAN performance acceptable...possibly extending the protocol itself.

Here are some of the configuration options you can try in an abt.icx image to reduce ENVY calls.  But, be aware it will also reduce functionality.

This will turn off the status loaded icon checking which dramatically reduced the number of ENVY calls.
Config Map Browser -> Editions -> Show Loading Status -> None

This option just keeps the first edition from being automatically selected, which reduces the amount of time it
takes to click from one map to the next.
Uncheck Config Map Browser -> Editions -> Preselect First Edition

3) Another alternative is that you use your local I/O manager (which you can even copy the .mgr of the server and point to it in your local machine) on your machine for doing developing. And whenever you need to "integrate" code into the remote manager you  simple export the maps/apps into a .dat, move it into the server, and then import it there in the remote server.

4) Finally, you might have seen in our forum, social media, newsletters, etc (https://www.instantiations.com/subscribe/) we are pushing and investing hard on Tonel, a git-friendly file format, with the ultimate goal of being able to use git (up to certain level). This is a work in progress, but with usable releases. The first official release will come with the upcoming VAST 10.x version. Read more here: https://github.com/instantiations/tonel-vast/

 
==================================================================

Best regards,

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 11:54 AM 'Seth Berman' via VA Smalltalk <[hidden email]> wrote:

Greetings,

"Can we use a 64-Bit EMSRV 7.2.x to manage our  VA 8.6.2 repositories and/or 32-Bit VA 9.x repositories? Or do we need a 32-Bit EMSRV for 32-Bit VA repositories."

- The internal layout of a repository is not sensitive to  32/64-bitness.
- The communications between a 32/64-bit image and the EMSRV server via socket protocol is not sensitive to 32/64-bitness.
- The communications between a 32/64-bit image and a repository via FILE I/O is not sensitive to 32/64-bitness.
- Therefore, yes...you may use any mixture of 32/64-bit clients to connect to any 32/64-bit EMSRV instance (or direct via FILE I/O) that can manage any ENVY repository.

"Is there a performance increase to expect concerning WAN performance?"
- No. This is a ENVY protocol issue.  Given the granularity of messages in the protocol along with the expected levels of repository view consistency at any time in the browsers, its not really a possibility to achieve this in any satisfying way over WAN without a dramatic redesign of the ENVY protocol and usage in the image.

- Today, there isn't really a VCS that attempts this at the WAN level the way ENVY would.  Everyone expects to be working locally and reconciling differences with some remote repository.

- We (and many of our customers) do the same where we work locally over FILE I/O in our own ENVY repository.  We then push to a remote Instantiations repository.  

- Remote logins "near" emsrv is still a recommended option if you are not going to be using our Tonel/Git support, which anyone working with distributed teams should be considering.

Tonel/Git

https://github.com/instantiations/tonel-vast

- We have more and more customers joining us in this Instantiations-sponsored project providing Git support and integration with VAST.

- Its designed to augment, not replace, ENVY.  Teams can use this to facilitate distributed workflows and integrate with existing tooling like CI and so on.

- We will be having a supported feature for this coming to VAST 2021.

Other team members who work directly on Tonel/Git monitor this forum and can answer any questions you may have concerning it.

- Seth

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 4:51:51 AM UTC-5 bonndias wrote:

Hi,

at the moment we use 32-Bit VA 8.6.2 but plan to migrate to 9.x 64-Bit hopefully in the near future. Some questions regarding this topic:

• Can we use a 64-Bit EMSRV 7.2.x to manage our  VA 8.6.2 repositories and/or 32-Bit VA 9.x repositories? Or do we need a 32-Bit EMSRV for 32-Bit VA repositories.
• Is there a performance increase to expect concerning WAN performance? In the past we learned that it's no good idea to have a lot of hops between EMSRV and VA. So we decided to use Virtual Machines located "near" to EMSRV. Is that the path to chose still?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VA Smalltalk" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
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--

Mariano Martinez Peck
Software Engineer, Instantiations Inc.

Email: [hidden email]

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MartinezPeck

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-martinez-peck

Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/

Greetings,

"Can we use a 64-Bit EMSRV 7.2.x to manage our  VA 8.6.2 repositories and/or 32-Bit VA 9.x repositories? Or do we need a 32-Bit EMSRV for 32-Bit VA repositories."

- The internal layout of a repository is not sensitive to  32/64-bitness.
- The communications between a 32/64-bit image and the EMSRV server via socket protocol is not sensitive to 32/64-bitness.
- The communications between a 32/64-bit image and a repository via FILE I/O is not sensitive to 32/64-bitness.
- Therefore, yes...you may use any mixture of 32/64-bit clients to connect to any 32/64-bit EMSRV instance (or direct via FILE I/O) that can manage any ENVY repository.

"Is there a performance increase to expect concerning WAN performance?"

- No. This is a ENVY protocol issue.  Given the granularity of messages in the protocol along with the expected levels of repository view consistency at any time in the browsers, its not really a possibility to achieve this in any satisfying way over WAN without a dramatic redesign of the ENVY protocol and usage in the image.

- Today, there isn't really a VCS that attempts this at the WAN level the way ENVY would.  Everyone expects to be working locally and reconciling differences with some remote repository.

- We (and many of our customers) do the same where we work locally over FILE I/O in our own ENVY repository.  We then push to a remote Instantiations repository.  

- Remote logins "near" emsrv is still a recommended option if you are not going to be using our Tonel/Git support, which anyone working with distributed teams should be considering.

Tonel/Git

https://github.com/instantiations/tonel-vast

- We have more and more customers joining us in this Instantiations-sponsored project providing Git support and integration with VAST.

- Its designed to augment, not replace, ENVY.  Teams can use this to facilitate distributed workflows and integrate with existing tooling like CI and so on.

- We will be having a supported feature for this coming to VAST 2021.

Other team members who work directly on Tonel/Git monitor this forum and can answer any questions you may have concerning it.

- Seth

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 4:51:51 AM UTC-5 bonndias wrote:

Hi,

at the moment we use 32-Bit VA 8.6.2 but plan to migrate to 9.x 64-Bit hopefully in the near future. Some questions regarding this topic:

• Can we use a 64-Bit EMSRV 7.2.x to manage our  VA 8.6.2 repositories and/or 32-Bit VA 9.x repositories? Or do we need a 32-Bit EMSRV for 32-Bit VA repositories.
• Is there a performance increase to expect concerning WAN performance? In the past we learned that it's no good idea to have a lot of hops between EMSRV and VA. So we decided to use Virtual Machines located "near" to EMSRV. Is that the path to chose still?

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 3:37 AM Ezequiel Tolnay <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Seth,

Can Windows and Linux environments use the same library? i.e. a Windows 32-bit and a Linux 64-bit sharing the same library?

If you want to access from emsrv, then yes, sure. I do that all the time. I have emsrv running on my host machine and then several VMWare guests. All those guest access to the same library served by the emsrv on my host. 

If you are talking about both accessing the same manager.dat but via I/O, I suspect it works unless both are connected at the same time. But I have never tried this scenario. 

Best, 

Mariano

--

Mariano Martinez Peck
Software Engineer, Instantiations Inc.

Email: [hidden email]

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MartinezPeck

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-martinez-peck

Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/