ESUG talks
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Hi,
I was wondering if there were any Gemstone talks planned at this year's ESUG? I started thinking about what would have helped me most when I started using Gemstone and in my case a hands-on workshop would have been really valuable. Something along the lines of taking an existing Seaside application and "porting" it to Gemstone. The aim being to gain familiarity with the tools, common problems (eg empty statements, classHistory) backing-up and restoring, installation, Object Log, blocking vs Gem based servers, debugging, background processing etc.
If there is interest in such a workshop I'd be happy to help, but don't feel sufficiently qualified to run it. Thoughts? Nick
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Am 27.06.2011 um 15:29 schrieb Nick Ager: > Hi, > > I was wondering if there were any Gemstone talks planned at this year's ESUG? > > I started thinking about what would have helped me most when I started using Gemstone and in my case a hands-on workshop would have been really valuable. Something along the lines of taking an existing Seaside application and "porting" it to Gemstone. The aim being to gain familiarity with the tools, common problems (eg empty statements, classHistory) backing-up and restoring, installation, Object Log, blocking vs Gem based servers, debugging, background processing etc. > > If there is interest in such a workshop I'd be happy to help, but don't feel sufficiently qualified to run it. > same for me. > Thoughts? > Great idea. I'm in. Norbert |
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That sounds like a birds-of-a-feather session on GLASS.
I think we can all learn from each other here. Count me in too ;-) Johan On 27 Jun 2011, at 15:51, Norbert Hartl wrote: > > Am 27.06.2011 um 15:29 schrieb Nick Ager: > >> Hi, >> >> I was wondering if there were any Gemstone talks planned at this year's ESUG? >> >> I started thinking about what would have helped me most when I started using Gemstone and in my case a hands-on workshop would have been really valuable. Something along the lines of taking an existing Seaside application and "porting" it to Gemstone. The aim being to gain familiarity with the tools, common problems (eg empty statements, classHistory) backing-up and restoring, installation, Object Log, blocking vs Gem based servers, debugging, background processing etc. >> >> If there is interest in such a workshop I'd be happy to help, but don't feel sufficiently qualified to run it. >> > same for me. > >> Thoughts? >> > Great idea. I'm in. > > Norbert |
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In reply to this post by Nick
Hi Nick,
There are several talks planned this year (the schedule should be out shortly), but we don't (yet) have a tutorial along the lines you described. I've done such a tutorial at other times and the material is available at http://seaside.gemstone.com/tutorial.html. Chapter 17 is focused on porting a Seaside application from Pharo to GemStone, though it doesn't cover everything you suggest. James On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:29 AM, Nick Ager wrote: Hi, |
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I was thinking of session for people who have yet to use GLASS to introduce them to GLASS in a hands on form. With us pooling our collective experiences to highlight the common issues that arise when moving from Pharo to GLASS. More concepts I found confusing initially;
How to exporting and import data using SIXX.
The use of the term abort (in Gemstone terminology it used frequently in the context of ensuring the Gem has the latest commits, whereas my previous experience it was used to roll-back a transaction - I know Gemstone abort can also be used in the roll-back transaction but the previous usage confused me)
>> birds-of-a-feather session on GLASS.
Do you mean ad-hoc? I guess I was thinking of something a little more organised for the workshop idea to be of value - for example preparing a distribution for the tutorial with Gemstone installed in a VMWare image and Gemtools.That said an ad-hoc GLASS user group meeting would be useful as well or instead.
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In reply to this post by Johan Brichau-2
Am 2011-06-27 um 16:17 schrieb Johan Brichau: > That sounds like a birds-of-a-feather session on GLASS. > > I think we can all learn from each other here. > > Count me in too ;-) > > Johan /me rises his hand. Best -Tobias |
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In reply to this post by Nick
All,
We are certainly interested in suggestions for tutorial, workshops, and presentations. The list of things you mentioned, particularly if done in a hands-on form, could take quite a bit of time (our current training material has several multi-day courses). Given that the ESUG program is close to being finalized, we'd need to act fast and I'm not sure what time would be available. I don't have a good feel for how many people who would be attending ESUG would attend a multi-hour GemStone tutorial. Is this something that would compete with the regular program? Or do you think that we would have very many come for a Sunday (afternoon?) session? If there are a small number of people at different stages in their understanding, then perhaps a table at Camp Smalltalk where those of us with experience offer guidance to those with questions? Or (as mentioned by Johan) a BOF where we share ideas? James On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:29 AM, Nick Ager wrote: > Hi, > > I was wondering if there were any Gemstone talks planned at this year's ESUG? > > I started thinking about what would have helped me most when I started using Gemstone and in my case a hands-on workshop would have been really valuable. Something along the lines of taking an existing Seaside application and "porting" it to Gemstone. The aim being to gain familiarity with the tools, common problems (eg empty statements, classHistory) backing-up and restoring, installation, Object Log, blocking vs Gem based servers, debugging, background processing etc. > > If there is interest in such a workshop I'd be happy to help, but don't feel sufficiently qualified to run it. > > Thoughts? > > Nick > |
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Here is the current plan: I'll submit a proposal to ESUG for a presentation "Things I wish I knew about GemStone". The list of things will start with the list provided by Nick, but since you have more recent experience with discovering GemStone and comparing it to Pharo, you need to provide the issues and I'll attempt to address them.
We will also discuss arranging a BOF. So, what topics do you wish you know about? James On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:23 AM, James Foster wrote: > All, > > We are certainly interested in suggestions for tutorial, workshops, and presentations. The list of things you mentioned, particularly if done in a hands-on form, could take quite a bit of time (our current training material has several multi-day courses). Given that the ESUG program is close to being finalized, we'd need to act fast and I'm not sure what time would be available. > > I don't have a good feel for how many people who would be attending ESUG would attend a multi-hour GemStone tutorial. Is this something that would compete with the regular program? Or do you think that we would have very many come for a Sunday (afternoon?) session? If there are a small number of people at different stages in their understanding, then perhaps a table at Camp Smalltalk where those of us with experience offer guidance to those with questions? Or (as mentioned by Johan) a BOF where we share ideas? > > James > > On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:29 AM, Nick Ager wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I was wondering if there were any Gemstone talks planned at this year's ESUG? >> >> I started thinking about what would have helped me most when I started using Gemstone and in my case a hands-on workshop would have been really valuable. Something along the lines of taking an existing Seaside application and "porting" it to Gemstone. The aim being to gain familiarity with the tools, common problems (eg empty statements, classHistory) backing-up and restoring, installation, Object Log, blocking vs Gem based servers, debugging, background processing etc. >> >> If there is interest in such a workshop I'd be happy to help, but don't feel sufficiently qualified to run it. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> Nick >> > |
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James, I would definitely attend a multi-hour Gemstone tutorial if I was attending ESUG this year. At this time, my only introduction to Gemstone/S is the Gemstone/S 64 Bit Programming Guide and the Topaz Programming Environment. Thus, I'm still left with the following questions:
- the overall architecture of GS as well as its concurrency model. Yes, you can Google but it would be great to go into a bit more depth on each of components. - performance characteristics. That is, what type of load can GS handle and its overall throughput as well as its scalability. - integrating with other Smalltalk environments like VW and Pharo which includes end to end tutorial. For example, not using Seaside but only the Smalltalk environment and GS. This can be a simple as banking system with multiple users where each user has 1 or more account. - migrating relational data to/from GS - hypothetically, if Gemstone/S was used for Twitter, how do you see this being implemented in regards to its data requirements. In short, I'm looking for a hands-on how to do it instead of hearing that GS can do this and that. Then post these slides where others like myself can take the tutorial. Good luck, -Conrad Sent from my iPhone On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:05 AM, James Foster <[hidden email]> wrote: > Here is the current plan: I'll submit a proposal to ESUG for a presentation "Things I wish I knew about GemStone". The list of things will start with the list provided by Nick, but since you have more recent experience with discovering GemStone and comparing it to Pharo, you need to provide the issues and I'll attempt to address them. > > We will also discuss arranging a BOF. > > So, what topics do you wish you know about? > > James > > On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:23 AM, James Foster wrote: > >> All, >> >> We are certainly interested in suggestions for tutorial, workshops, and presentations. The list of things you mentioned, particularly if done in a hands-on form, could take quite a bit of time (our current training material has several multi-day courses). Given that the ESUG program is close to being finalized, we'd need to act fast and I'm not sure what time would be available. >> >> I don't have a good feel for how many people who would be attending ESUG would attend a multi-hour GemStone tutorial. Is this something that would compete with the regular program? Or do you think that we would have very many come for a Sunday (afternoon?) session? If there are a small number of people at different stages in their understanding, then perhaps a table at Camp Smalltalk where those of us with experience offer guidance to those with questions? Or (as mentioned by Johan) a BOF where we share ideas? >> >> James >> >> On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:29 AM, Nick Ager wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I was wondering if there were any Gemstone talks planned at this year's ESUG? >>> >>> I started thinking about what would have helped me most when I started using Gemstone and in my case a hands-on workshop would have been really valuable. Something along the lines of taking an existing Seaside application and "porting" it to Gemstone. The aim being to gain familiarity with the tools, common problems (eg empty statements, classHistory) backing-up and restoring, installation, Object Log, blocking vs Gem based servers, debugging, background processing etc. >>> >>> If there is interest in such a workshop I'd be happy to help, but don't feel sufficiently qualified to run it. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> Nick >>> >> > |
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Hi Conrad,
Have you looked at either the "Introduction to GemStone" videos or the "Scaling Objects for the Enterprise: GemStone Architecture" videos on James' blog? http://programminggems.wordpress.com/directory/ -- Monty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Conrad Taylor" <[hidden email]> To: "GemStone Seaside beta discussion" <[hidden email]> Cc: "GemStone Seaside beta discussion" <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 1:34:11 PM Subject: Re: [GS/SS Beta] ESUG talks James, I would definitely attend a multi-hour Gemstone tutorial if I was attending ESUG this year. At this time, my only introduction to Gemstone/S is the Gemstone/S 64 Bit Programming Guide and the Topaz Programming Environment. Thus, I'm still left with the following questions: - the overall architecture of GS as well as its concurrency model. Yes, you can Google but it would be great to go into a bit more depth on each of components. - performance characteristics. That is, what type of load can GS handle and its overall throughput as well as its scalability. - integrating with other Smalltalk environments like VW and Pharo which includes end to end tutorial. For example, not using Seaside but only the Smalltalk environment and GS. This can be a simple as banking system with multiple users where each user has 1 or more account. - migrating relational data to/from GS - hypothetically, if Gemstone/S was used for Twitter, how do you see this being implemented in regards to its data requirements. In short, I'm looking for a hands-on how to do it instead of hearing that GS can do this and that. Then post these slides where others like myself can take the tutorial. Good luck, -Conrad Sent from my iPhone On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:05 AM, James Foster <[hidden email]> wrote: > Here is the current plan: I'll submit a proposal to ESUG for a presentation "Things I wish I knew about GemStone". The list of things will start with the list provided by Nick, but since you have more recent experience with discovering GemStone and comparing it to Pharo, you need to provide the issues and I'll attempt to address them. > > We will also discuss arranging a BOF. > > So, what topics do you wish you know about? > > James > > On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:23 AM, James Foster wrote: > >> All, >> >> We are certainly interested in suggestions for tutorial, workshops, and presentations. The list of things you mentioned, particularly if done in a hands-on form, could take quite a bit of time (our current training material has several multi-day courses). Given that the ESUG program is close to being finalized, we'd need to act fast and I'm not sure what time would be available. >> >> I don't have a good feel for how many people who would be attending ESUG would attend a multi-hour GemStone tutorial. Is this something that would compete with the regular program? Or do you think that we would have very many come for a Sunday (afternoon?) session? If there are a small number of people at different stages in their understanding, then perhaps a table at Camp Smalltalk where those of us with experience offer guidance to those with questions? Or (as mentioned by Johan) a BOF where we share ideas? >> >> James >> >> On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:29 AM, Nick Ager wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I was wondering if there were any Gemstone talks planned at this year's ESUG? >>> >>> I started thinking about what would have helped me most when I started using Gemstone and in my case a hands-on workshop would have been really valuable. Something along the lines of taking an existing Seaside application and "porting" it to Gemstone. The aim being to gain familiarity with the tools, common problems (eg empty statements, classHistory) backing-up and restoring, installation, Object Log, blocking vs Gem based servers, debugging, background processing etc. >>> >>> If there is interest in such a workshop I'd be happy to help, but don't feel sufficiently qualified to run it. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> Nick >>> >> > |
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On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Monty Williams <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Conrad, Monty, I have not looked at the above mentioned videos. However, I'll look at them now. Thanks for the information, -Conrad -- Monty |
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While we're on the subject of "have you seen?":
http://gemstonesoup.wordpress.com/gemstone-101/ http://gemstonesoup.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/gemstone-101-short-features/ Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Conrad Taylor" <[hidden email]> | To: "GemStone Seaside beta discussion" <[hidden email]> | Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 3:25:44 PM | Subject: Re: [GS/SS Beta] ESUG talks | | On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Monty Williams < [hidden email] > | wrote: | | | | Hi Conrad, | | Have you looked at either the "Introduction to GemStone" videos or | the "Scaling Objects for the Enterprise: GemStone Architecture" | videos on James' blog? | | http://programminggems.wordpress.com/directory/ | | | | | Monty, I have not looked at the above mentioned videos. However, I'll | look at them now. | | | Thanks for the information, | | | -Conrad | | | -- Monty | | | | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Conrad Taylor" < [hidden email] > | To: "GemStone Seaside beta discussion" < [hidden email] > | Cc: "GemStone Seaside beta discussion" < [hidden email] > | Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 1:34:11 PM | Subject: Re: [GS/SS Beta] ESUG talks | | James, I would definitely attend a multi-hour Gemstone tutorial if I | was attending ESUG this year. At this time, my only introduction to | Gemstone/S is the Gemstone/S 64 Bit Programming Guide and the Topaz | Programming Environment. Thus, I'm still left with the following | questions: | | - the overall architecture of GS as well | as its concurrency model. Yes, you | can Google but it would be great to | go into a bit more depth on each of | components. | | - performance characteristics. That is, | what type of load can GS handle and | its overall throughput as well as its | scalability. | | - integrating with other Smalltalk | environments like VW and Pharo | which includes end to end tutorial. | For example, not using Seaside but | only the Smalltalk environment | and GS. This can be a simple as | banking system with multiple users | where each user has 1 or more | account. | | - migrating relational data to/from GS | | - hypothetically, if Gemstone/S was | used for Twitter, how do you see this | being implemented in regards to its | data requirements. | | In short, I'm looking for a hands-on how to do it instead of hearing | that GS can do this and that. Then post these slides where others | like myself can take the tutorial. | | Good luck, | | -Conrad | | Sent from my iPhone | | On Jun 27, 2011, at 11:05 AM, James Foster <[hidden email]> | wrote: | | > Here is the current plan: I'll submit a proposal to ESUG for a | > presentation "Things I wish I knew about GemStone". The list of | > things will start with the list provided by Nick, but since you | > have more recent experience with discovering GemStone and | > comparing it to Pharo, you need to provide the issues and I'll | > attempt to address them. | > | > We will also discuss arranging a BOF. | > | > So, what topics do you wish you know about? | > | > James | > | > On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:23 AM, James Foster wrote: | > | >> All, | >> | >> We are certainly interested in suggestions for tutorial, | >> workshops, and presentations. The list of things you mentioned, | >> particularly if done in a hands-on form, could take quite a bit | >> of time (our current training material has several multi-day | >> courses). Given that the ESUG program is close to being | >> finalized, we'd need to act fast and I'm not sure what time would | >> be available. | >> | >> I don't have a good feel for how many people who would be | >> attending ESUG would attend a multi-hour GemStone tutorial. Is | >> this something that would compete with the regular program? Or do | >> you think that we would have very many come for a Sunday | >> (afternoon?) session? If there are a small number of people at | >> different stages in their understanding, then perhaps a table at | >> Camp Smalltalk where those of us with experience offer guidance | >> to those with questions? Or (as mentioned by Johan) a BOF where | >> we share ideas? | >> | >> James | >> | >> On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:29 AM, Nick Ager wrote: | >> | >>> Hi, | >>> | >>> I was wondering if there were any Gemstone talks planned at this | >>> year's ESUG? | >>> | >>> I started thinking about what would have helped me most when I | >>> started using Gemstone and in my case a hands-on workshop would | >>> have been really valuable. Something along the lines of taking | >>> an existing Seaside application and "porting" it to Gemstone. | >>> The aim being to gain familiarity with the tools, common | >>> problems (eg empty statements, classHistory) backing-up and | >>> restoring, installation, Object Log, blocking vs Gem based | >>> servers, debugging, background processing etc. | >>> | >>> If there is interest in such a workshop I'd be happy to help, but | >>> don't feel sufficiently qualified to run it. | >>> | >>> Thoughts? | >>> | >>> Nick | >>> | >> | > | | |
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In reply to this post by Conrad Taylor
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Conrad Taylor <[hidden email]> wrote:
Monty/James, the introduction to Gemstone/S presentation cleared up some questions but created some new one as well. For example, 'Introduction to Gemstone/S', mentioned the following:
- Does GemBuilder for Smalltalk 7.4 Beta 2 work with VW 7.8 NC on Mac OS 10.6+? The VW prereq says that VW 7.7.1 and 7.8. Thus, I'm guessing that VW 7.8 NC is supported as well. Next, I believe I still need to setup Gemstone/S 3.0 Beta to work with both Maglev
and standalone. - Where can I find sample code for using GemStone C Interface (GCI) as well as the pure Smalltalk interface to C libraries? Thanks in advance,
-Conrad
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Is there a difference between 7.8 and 7.8 NC (other than $$)? In either case, the free version of GemStone does not support GBS. Next, I believe I still need to setup Gemstone/S 3.0 Beta to work with both Maglev and standalone. Maglev requires GemStone/S 64 Bit 3.0.
For examples of Pharo code that use GCI, see GemTools. For examples of FFI, try the examples in CHeader. James |
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In reply to this post by James Foster-8
On 27 Jun 2011, at 20:05, James Foster wrote: > So, what topics do you wish you know about? In my case, I think a good overview on performance analysis and expected and unexpected performance hogs would be very welcome. I spent the last couple of weeks analyzing and tracking performance using statmonitor and vsd because we have some performance bottlenecks. However, I'm still unsure if the statistics I'm seeing are normal for Gemstone and that I should just upgrade the hardware or that there is some real room for improvement in my app. I read through the GS manuals where a lot of excellent information is contained on the subject. But I'm still a bit hungry ;-) cheers, Johan |
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In recent times we have been struggling with various parts of Gemstone.
Our main problem is: how do I set up new gemstone environments fast. We want to be able to create a setup for a new customer, complete with development, test, acceptance and production environments. The problems are mostly in the interaction between Gemstone and other software (web server, mail server, firewall, etc.). We have started using Vagrant and Puppet/Chef, but don't have a complete working version yet. It still needs manual intervention. We would be interested in creating a complete setup (incl. Jenkins). Camp Smalltalk might be a good place to develop this. We could then demonstrate the results in the conference. We already have a demo project that could be used to showcase it. We have used it in the SPA2011 conference to promote Smalltalk Seaside. Stephan Eggermont & Diego Lont |
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On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:53 AM, Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email]> wrote: In recent times we have been struggling with various parts of Gemstone. Stephan, this sounds like an excellent idea. Good luck, -Conrad |
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