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Embeddable Smalltalk (was: Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

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Herby Vojčík

Embeddable Smalltalk (was: Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

Ben Coman wrote:
> Nice article. I like the way you've structured it and pushed the
> "updated" angle.
>
> I feel a bit too strong a claim is laid on Pharo producing the CogVM.
> Much of the Cog + Spur + 64bit VM work was originally done for Squeak
> with Pharo riding the coat-tails of that work. Lately Pharo community
> has been involved in improving VM with hotspot optimisation with Sista
> and moving towards making Pharo embeddable.. (@Clement, is "hotspot

Hi, this made me curious. I always had the problem with Amber (and, all
the rest of Smalltalks in similar vein) that it is hard to use to
one-off scripting, as it presumes existence of the not really small
class library (objects, classes, collections, etc.). This disadvantaged
it IMO in the field of "can I just embed it here and script it with a
few lines?" scenarios.

Did you (the Pharo community that is "moving towards making Pharo
embeddable") find some way to work this around?

> cheers -ben

Herby

philippeback

Re: Embeddable Smalltalk (was: Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

https://github.com/guillep/Scale is quite cool for quick scripts on *nix.

Now for embeddable, yes it would help. Bootstrapping will be helpful but the current main issue is the VM interpret loop that is in the current VMs.

It is not an intrinsic problem. Telepharo is also a great step to enable that to exist.

Phil

On Oct 7, 2017 13:05, "Herby Vojčík" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ben Coman wrote:

Nice article. I like the way you've structured it and pushed the
"updated" angle.

I feel a bit too strong a claim is laid on Pharo producing the CogVM.
Much of the Cog + Spur + 64bit VM work was originally done for Squeak
with Pharo riding the coat-tails of that work. Lately Pharo community
has been involved in improving VM with hotspot optimisation with Sista
and moving towards making Pharo embeddable.. (@Clement, is "hotspot

Hi, this made me curious. I always had the problem with Amber (and, all the rest of Smalltalks in similar vein) that it is hard to use to one-off scripting, as it presumes existence of the not really small class library (objects, classes, collections, etc.). This disadvantaged it IMO in the field of "can I just embed it here and script it with a few lines?" scenarios.

Did you (the Pharo community that is "moving towards making Pharo embeddable") find some way to work this around?

cheers -ben

Herby

Ben Coman

Re: Embeddable Smalltalk (was: Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík

On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ben Coman wrote:

Nice article. I like the way you've structured it and pushed the
"updated" angle.

I feel a bit too strong a claim is laid on Pharo producing the CogVM.
Much of the Cog + Spur + 64bit VM work was originally done for Squeak
with Pharo riding the coat-tails of that work. Lately Pharo community
has been involved in improving VM with hotspot optimisation with Sista
and moving towards making Pharo embeddable.. (@Clement, is "hotspot

Hi, this made me curious. I always had the problem with Amber (and, all the rest of Smalltalks in similar vein) that it is hard to use to one-off scripting, as it presumes existence of the not really small class library (objects, classes, collections, etc.). This disadvantaged it IMO in the field of "can I just embed it here and script it with a few lines?" scenarios.

Did you (the Pharo community that is "moving towards making Pharo embeddable") find some way to work this around?

Embeddable here is no so much for one-off scripting, but more becoming an integrated part of an application driven by an event loop of a game engine rather than the existing VM event loop. I'd expect much of the class library to be available here, so your question is orthogonal.

I've seen discussion of projects for Pharo work from the command line, but I don't know their status.

cheers -ben

Stephane Ducasse-3

Re: Embeddable Smalltalk (was: Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

I would love to have pharo embeddable from C. But we are not yet there.
Now we worked and will continue to make sure that Pharo can work in
readonly mode and we will have a tiny core.

Stef

On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Ben Coman wrote:
>>>
>>> Nice article. I like the way you've structured it and pushed the
>>> "updated" angle.
>>>
>>> I feel a bit too strong a claim is laid on Pharo producing the CogVM.
>>> Much of the Cog + Spur + 64bit VM work was originally done for Squeak
>>> with Pharo riding the coat-tails of that work. Lately Pharo community
>>> has been involved in improving VM with hotspot optimisation with Sista
>>> and moving towards making Pharo embeddable.. (@Clement, is "hotspot
>>
>>
>> Hi, this made me curious. I always had the problem with Amber (and, all
>> the rest of Smalltalks in similar vein) that it is hard to use to one-off
>> scripting, as it presumes existence of the not really small class library
>> (objects, classes, collections, etc.). This disadvantaged it IMO in the
>> field of "can I just embed it here and script it with a few lines?"
>> scenarios.
>>
>> Did you (the Pharo community that is "moving towards making Pharo
>> embeddable") find some way to work this around?
>
>
> Embeddable here is no so much for one-off scripting, but more becoming an
> integrated part of an application driven by an event loop of a game engine
> rather than the existing VM event loop. I'd expect much of the class
> library to be available here, so your question is orthogonal.
>
> I've seen discussion of projects for Pharo work from the command line, but I
> don't know their status.
>
> cheers -ben