Evaluating Nautilus

and btw... for that kind of work is incredible simpler to use glamour (you can have exactly the same browser in 15'... I know that because I made it for mongo databases :).
At the unique price of load glamour.

Esteban

On Jun 22, 2012, at 9:16 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

> do not confuse Nautilus and Spec. Nautilus is (or should be) defined using Spec.
>
> Spec is the framework for building UI. We are slowly rewriting all the tools based on spec while learning and improving Spec.
> Ideally we would like to be able to reuse a builder PAINTER (a tool to place widgets on the screen) and to generate Spec.
>
> Stef
>
> On Jun 22, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:
>
>> First let me apologize for asking without properly evaluating first. I took some time and read about Nautilus which it seems a very nice work. I've developed a phylogenetics classifier using OmniBrowser, but I wondered if Nautilus could save me some effort, and I'm planning to test Pharo 1.4 or 2.0 in some future in which AFAIK OmniBrowser will not be supported anymore.
>>
>> - Some time ago I've modified the OmniBrowser framework to browse anything I wanted in the "code pane" (the lower pane typically used for displaying/editing code), as we had a complex OODB it was very useful, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxUaOFRHFPk for a demo. However it was not easy to understand the OB internals and make the modifications. Have you tried to implement such feature in Nautilus?
>> - There is documentation for developing browsers with Nautilus? Something which explains the basic architecture, how it differs from OB? for example:
>> --Do you have to define a metagraph?
>> --May I have multiple definition panels?
>> -Do you have a mapping for each node type (class?) with each column?
>> -OB is not cross-UI (it depends on Morphic). Can I use a Nautilus browser within a web browser?
>> - Another thing which is really easy is to define Commands in OB, (although the #isActive logic could become a mess without some care). How it is different in Nautilus?
>>
>> I'm sure I would rewrite my browsers with Nautilus, my key question is how much of the OB knowledge I can re-use?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Hernán
>>
>> --
>> Hernán Morales
>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
>> Internal: 422
>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>>
>
>

Hello :)

This is a nice challenge :)

Firstly, you have to know that the model behind Nautilus is really different that the one behind OB. Let's say nothing in common.

On the other hand, the code pane modification can be made within an hour (maybe two if you are not confident with morphic, but it doesn't seems to be the case) using the plugin mecanism (Johan Fabry can testify ^^).

Then, Nautilus is not cross platform, but we have developed Spec with the goal to use it for Nautilus, and Spec is(will be ^^) cross platform. So one day, Nautilus will be cross platform. Sadly, I will not be soon (I have to rewrite the whole ui).

About the command definition, I am not an OB expert, but I think that Command are used for menu entries.

In Nautilus the menus definition are based on pragma, so any class can extend Nautilus menus.

In a nutshell, what I have seen in the video is doable in roughly a couple of hours :)

If you decide to give a try to Nautilus, let me know, and I will be glad to help/answer question/provide pieces of code etc :)

Ben

On Jun 22, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

First let me apologize for asking without properly evaluating first. I took some time and read about Nautilus which it seems a very nice work. I've developed a phylogenetics classifier using OmniBrowser, but I wondered if Nautilus could save me some effort, and I'm planning to test Pharo 1.4 or 2.0 in some future in which AFAIK OmniBrowser will not be supported anymore.

- Some time ago I've modified the OmniBrowser framework to browse anything I wanted in the "code pane" (the lower pane typically used for displaying/editing code), as we had a complex OODB it was very useful, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxUaOFRHFPk for a demo. However it was not easy to understand the OB internals and make the modifications. Have you tried to implement such feature in Nautilus?
- There is documentation for developing browsers with Nautilus? Something which explains the basic architecture, how it differs from OB? for example:
--Do you have to define a metagraph?
--May I have multiple definition panels?
-Do you have a mapping for each node type (class?) with each column?
-OB is not cross-UI (it depends on Morphic). Can I use a Nautilus browser within a web browser?
- Another thing which is really easy is to define Commands in OB, (although the #isActive logic could become a mess without some care). How it is different in Nautilus?

I'm sure I would rewrite my browsers with Nautilus, my key question is how much of the OB knowledge I can re-use?

Cheers,

Hernán

--
Hernán Morales
Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
Internal: 422
Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.

What have you read already ?

Ben

On Jun 23, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

Hello Benjamin,

2012/6/22 Benjamin <[hidden email]>

Hello :)

This is a nice challenge :)

Firstly, you have to know that the model behind Nautilus is really different that the one behind OB. Let's say nothing in common.

On the other hand, the code pane modification can be made within an hour (maybe two if you are not confident with morphic, but it doesn't seems to be the case) using the plugin mecanism (Johan Fabry can testify ^^).

Ok, let us know when more Nautilus documentation is available.
 

Then, Nautilus is not cross platform, but we have developed Spec with the goal to use it for Nautilus, and Spec is(will be ^^) cross platform. So one day, Nautilus will be cross platform. Sadly, I will not be soon (I have to rewrite the whole ui).

thanks for the clarification and status update

 

About the command definition, I am not an OB expert, but I think that Command are used for menu entries.

In Nautilus the menus definition are based on pragma, so any class can extend Nautilus menus.

Yes, commands in OB are used to define menu entries and their behavior.

 

In a nutshell, what I have seen in the video is doable in roughly a couple of hours :)

If you decide to give a try to Nautilus, let me know, and I will be glad to help/answer question/provide pieces of code etc :)

Thanks for your reply, I will be in touch.

Hernán

 

Ben

On Jun 22, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

First let me apologize for asking without properly evaluating first. I took some time and read about Nautilus which it seems a very nice work. I've developed a phylogenetics classifier using OmniBrowser, but I wondered if Nautilus could save me some effort, and I'm planning to test Pharo 1.4 or 2.0 in some future in which AFAIK OmniBrowser will not be supported anymore.

- Some time ago I've modified the OmniBrowser framework to browse anything I wanted in the "code pane" (the lower pane typically used for displaying/editing code), as we had a complex OODB it was very useful, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxUaOFRHFPk for a demo. However it was not easy to understand the OB internals and make the modifications. Have you tried to implement such feature in Nautilus?
- There is documentation for developing browsers with Nautilus? Something which explains the basic architecture, how it differs from OB? for example:
--Do you have to define a metagraph?
--May I have multiple definition panels?
-Do you have a mapping for each node type (class?) with each column?
-OB is not cross-UI (it depends on Morphic). Can I use a Nautilus browser within a web browser?
- Another thing which is really easy is to define Commands in OB, (although the #isActive logic could become a mess without some care). How it is different in Nautilus?

I'm sure I would rewrite my browsers with Nautilus, my key question is how much of the OB knowledge I can re-use?

Cheers,

Hernán

--
Hernán Morales
Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
Internal: 422
Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.

You can found some doc here: http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/web/pier/software/Tools-Improvement/NautilusDocumentation

For Pharo 1.4, I try to maintain it a bit, but my focus is on the integration of Nautilus in Pharo 2.0

Ben

On Jun 23, 2012, at 4:32 PM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

For Nautilus I've read a review blog post at http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2012/02/26/nautilus-the-reborn-of-the-systembrowser/ but I didn't found anything else, maybe I'm missing something?

I've installed Nautilus with the following script in a clean Pharo 1.4 core

Gofer it
	url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Nautilus';
	package: 'ConfigurationOfNautilus';
	load.
	 
	(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfNautilus) perform: #loadRelease

but after some random clicks I've received a SubscriptOutOfBounds exception. I've attached the stack from the debugger and a screenshot.

Hernán

2012/6/23 Benjamin <[hidden email]>

What have you read already ?

Ben

On Jun 23, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

Hello Benjamin,

2012/6/22 Benjamin <[hidden email]>

Hello :)

This is a nice challenge :)

Firstly, you have to know that the model behind Nautilus is really different that the one behind OB. Let's say nothing in common.

On the other hand, the code pane modification can be made within an hour (maybe two if you are not confident with morphic, but it doesn't seems to be the case) using the plugin mecanism (Johan Fabry can testify ^^).

Ok, let us know when more Nautilus documentation is available.
 

Then, Nautilus is not cross platform, but we have developed Spec with the goal to use it for Nautilus, and Spec is(will be ^^) cross platform. So one day, Nautilus will be cross platform. Sadly, I will not be soon (I have to rewrite the whole ui).

thanks for the clarification and status update

 

About the command definition, I am not an OB expert, but I think that Command are used for menu entries.

In Nautilus the menus definition are based on pragma, so any class can extend Nautilus menus.

Yes, commands in OB are used to define menu entries and their behavior.

 

In a nutshell, what I have seen in the video is doable in roughly a couple of hours :)

If you decide to give a try to Nautilus, let me know, and I will be glad to help/answer question/provide pieces of code etc :)

Thanks for your reply, I will be in touch.

Hernán

 

Ben

On Jun 22, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

First let me apologize for asking without properly evaluating first. I took some time and read about Nautilus which it seems a very nice work. I've developed a phylogenetics classifier using OmniBrowser, but I wondered if Nautilus could save me some effort, and I'm planning to test Pharo 1.4 or 2.0 in some future in which AFAIK OmniBrowser will not be supported anymore.

- Some time ago I've modified the OmniBrowser framework to browse anything I wanted in the "code pane" (the lower pane typically used for displaying/editing code), as we had a complex OODB it was very useful, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxUaOFRHFPk for a demo. However it was not easy to understand the OB internals and make the modifications. Have you tried to implement such feature in Nautilus?
- There is documentation for developing browsers with Nautilus? Something which explains the basic architecture, how it differs from OB? for example:
--Do you have to define a metagraph?
--May I have multiple definition panels?
-Do you have a mapping for each node type (class?) with each column?
-OB is not cross-UI (it depends on Morphic). Can I use a Nautilus browser within a web browser?
- Another thing which is really easy is to define Commands in OB, (although the #isActive logic could become a mess without some care). How it is different in Nautilus?

I'm sure I would rewrite my browsers with Nautilus, my key question is how much of the OB knowledge I can re-use?

Cheers,

Hernán

--
Hernán Morales
Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
Internal: 422
Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.

Hernán Morales Durand wrote

>
> I've installed Nautilus with the following script in a clean Pharo 1.4
> core
>

I've been using the Nautilus 1.4 build on Jenkins... works pretty well

- S

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Evaluating-Nautilus-tp4636056p4636280.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

On Jun 24, 2012, at 3:55 AM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

Thanks for your answers Benjamin. After reading the chapter I should note the plugin architecture seems very promising, as you've said it, very different from OB. So to create my own browser should I subclass Nautilus? which hook methods should I check first?

You should create your own plugin I guess :)

In a plugin, you can access the UI, and put another morph instead of the text area, or whatever :)

Have a look a MondrianPlugin, it shows a bit what you can do :)

Some usability issues:

When I do "Find class...", type Object and Ok, it takes some time to display the class on the browser. Maybe it would be nice to preload first N methods in the method list? (i'm thinking in performance when browsing large lists).
When I bring the menu over a class, there is no "browse hierarchy" option, is this option missing on purpose?

This method exists, I just forget to invoke it :)

Ben

Cheers,

Hernán

2012/6/23 Benjamin <[hidden email]>

You can found some doc here: http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/web/pier/software/Tools-Improvement/NautilusDocumentation

For Pharo 1.4, I try to maintain it a bit, but my focus is on the integration of Nautilus in Pharo 2.0

Ben

On Jun 23, 2012, at 4:32 PM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

For Nautilus I've read a review blog post at http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2012/02/26/nautilus-the-reborn-of-the-systembrowser/ but I didn't found anything else, maybe I'm missing something?

I've installed Nautilus with the following script in a clean Pharo 1.4 core

Gofer it
	url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Nautilus';
	package: 'ConfigurationOfNautilus';
	load.
	 
	(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfNautilus) perform: #loadRelease

but after some random clicks I've received a SubscriptOutOfBounds exception. I've attached the stack from the debugger and a screenshot.

Hernán

2012/6/23 Benjamin <[hidden email]>

What have you read already ?

Ben

On Jun 23, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

Hello Benjamin,

2012/6/22 Benjamin <[hidden email]>

Hello :)

This is a nice challenge :)

Firstly, you have to know that the model behind Nautilus is really different that the one behind OB. Let's say nothing in common.

On the other hand, the code pane modification can be made within an hour (maybe two if you are not confident with morphic, but it doesn't seems to be the case) using the plugin mecanism (Johan Fabry can testify ^^).

Ok, let us know when more Nautilus documentation is available.
 

Then, Nautilus is not cross platform, but we have developed Spec with the goal to use it for Nautilus, and Spec is(will be ^^) cross platform. So one day, Nautilus will be cross platform. Sadly, I will not be soon (I have to rewrite the whole ui).

thanks for the clarification and status update

 

About the command definition, I am not an OB expert, but I think that Command are used for menu entries.

In Nautilus the menus definition are based on pragma, so any class can extend Nautilus menus.

Yes, commands in OB are used to define menu entries and their behavior.

 

In a nutshell, what I have seen in the video is doable in roughly a couple of hours :)

If you decide to give a try to Nautilus, let me know, and I will be glad to help/answer question/provide pieces of code etc :)

Thanks for your reply, I will be in touch.

Hernán

 

Ben

On Jun 22, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

First let me apologize for asking without properly evaluating first. I took some time and read about Nautilus which it seems a very nice work. I've developed a phylogenetics classifier using OmniBrowser, but I wondered if Nautilus could save me some effort, and I'm planning to test Pharo 1.4 or 2.0 in some future in which AFAIK OmniBrowser will not be supported anymore.

- Some time ago I've modified the OmniBrowser framework to browse anything I wanted in the "code pane" (the lower pane typically used for displaying/editing code), as we had a complex OODB it was very useful, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxUaOFRHFPk for a demo. However it was not easy to understand the OB internals and make the modifications. Have you tried to implement such feature in Nautilus?
- There is documentation for developing browsers with Nautilus? Something which explains the basic architecture, how it differs from OB? for example:
--Do you have to define a metagraph?
--May I have multiple definition panels?
-Do you have a mapping for each node type (class?) with each column?
-OB is not cross-UI (it depends on Morphic). Can I use a Nautilus browser within a web browser?
- Another thing which is really easy is to define Commands in OB, (although the #isActive logic could become a mess without some care). How it is different in Nautilus?

I'm sure I would rewrite my browsers with Nautilus, my key question is how much of the OB knowledge I can re-use?

Cheers,

Hernán

--
Hernán Morales
Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
Internal: 422
Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.