On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:01 AM, GOUBIER Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote: I find this debate interesting... but a bit strange +1. Saying Pharo is not a Smalltalk is clearly absurd. At the risk of getting into a "what have the romans done for us?" thread, I'll say the following. The syntax is a superset of Smalltalk-80 (additions being literal ByteArrays, pragmas, class messages for creating weak arrays & ephemerons). The class library is a superset of Smalltalk-80 plus bug fixes. The only significant extensions are closures, exceptions and traits, but exceptions and traits, much like Dan Ingall's and Alan Borning's multiple inheritance implementation in Smalltalk-80 is done in the language. Closures are nicer than SMalltalk-80 blocks, but they're the same essential light-weight lambda idea with somewhat improved semantics, and all that was wrong with Smalltalk-80 blocks was the lack of reentrancy.
A language like Newspeak is "Smalltalk-inspired". It differs significantly (semantics: nested classes, lexically-scoped outer sends, mixins, syntax: ability to elide self, initialization of temps with their declaration). I don't see the point of saying Pharo is not Smalltalk. I see the point of saying Pharo is not Squeak, and I thoguht that was the point. But saying Pharo is not Smalltalk is petty larceny.
best, Eliot
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For whomever wonders what "what have the romans ever done for us" is about watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE you can stop around 2:10 |
Don't even need to follow the link to guess where that comes from :):):)
The text transcription: http://www.epicure.demon.co.uk/whattheromans.html Thierry Le 06/11/2013 01:28, Paul DeBruicker a écrit : > For whomever wonders what "what have the romans ever done for us" is about > watch: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE > > > you can stop around 2:10 > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Feature-request-poll-tp4718993p4719475.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 |
I can only speak on behalf of newcomers as I am a newcomer myself, that I dont care if Pharo is smalltalk, a dialect, a byproduct , a hybrid, alien technology. What I care is that is well supported (bug wise), friendly community (forums), actively developed (updates/ bug fixes), stable enough, a breath of fresh air (who wants to use the same stuff) and sufficiently documented. See what I did there I did not even mention the language nor the environment. I am happy that Pharo is all these things, the fact that is smalltalk or a dialect of it, is just a happy accident ;) On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Goubier Thierry <[hidden email]> wrote: Don't even need to follow the link to guess where that comes from :):):) |
Hi Kilon,
Dne 06. 11. 2013 12:00, piše kilon alios: > I can only speak on behalf of newcomers as I am a newcomer myself, that > I dont care if Pharo is smalltalk, a dialect, a byproduct , a hybrid, > alien technology. But you found Pharo because you were firstly interested in Smalltalk? If Pharo wouldn't be Smalltalk, would you still found it the same way as you did? Best regards Janko What I care is that is well supported (bug wise), > friendly community (forums), actively developed (updates/ bug fixes), > stable enough, a breath of fresh air (who wants to use the same stuff) > and sufficiently documented. See what I did there I did not even mention > the language nor the environment. > > I am happy that Pharo is all these things, the fact that is smalltalk or > a dialect of it, is just a happy accident ;) > > > On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Goubier Thierry <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > Don't even need to follow the link to guess where that comes from :):):) > > The text transcription: > http://www.epicure.demon.co.__uk/whattheromans.html > <http://www.epicure.demon.co.uk/whattheromans.html> > > Thierry > > Le 06/11/2013 01:28, Paul DeBruicker a écrit : > > For whomever wonders what "what have the romans ever done for > us" is about > watch: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?__v=9foi342LXQE > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE> > > > you can stop around 2:10 > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Feature-__request-poll-__tp4718993p4719475.html > <http://forum.world.st/Feature-request-poll-tp4718993p4719475.html> > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > |
Nope quite the contrary. I came to pharo because I was interested in emacs. I remained with it because for me Pharo unites two of my favorite development tools, python language and Delphi IDE. So no it was definitely not Smalltalk that brought me here and I suspect for most people applies the same apply since smalltalk is very unpopular. What brought me was emacs, python and delphi.
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Janko Mivšek <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Kilon, |
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