First impressions

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First impressions

Edward Stow
Hi,

I am developing a site that features heavy google maps integration and
have decided to trial Aida as the web app framework. My background -
smalltalk since 1991, experience with php app frameworks (prado) and
python, mainly gtk apps.

I am also considering Seaside - but my experience is only as far as
the tutorial.

Is the list interested in my first impressions:  If so I will post as
I work... on my trials.

preferedURL
-----------------
My application requires RESTful urls and bookmarkable urls.  The
caching of object / url references caused me some delay while working
on my own application.

Suggestion:  Add a documentation note to the tutorial on how to reset
the cache. (If you had user comments section on your documentation,
this note would have been added by now.)

Is it necessary to cache the references at all.  Is this a performance
issue or part of the basic design?
Could this be a configuration option for a production system.

WebApplication  >> observee
-----------------------------------------
 --- I know that names are only names but it was not until I realized
that your observee is what many other mvc frameworks would call the
model.  In my mind model objects are designed to be observed.  I would
have found a comment to this effect helpful in the documentation.

Error reporting on the web page.
---------------------------------------------
Make an error that causes a dnu -- the page should display some
diagnostics on the error.  The debugger stack would be useful at
least.  Seaside really excels in this area - being able to jump to the
debugger, fix and proceed.

So far I'm enjoying the experience ...

--

Edward Stow
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Re: First impressions

Rob Rothwell
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Edward Stow <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is the list interested in my first impressions:  If so I will post as
I work... on my trials.

I am new to both Smalltalk and Aida, but I like them both, get helped a lot, and want to contribute back.  I would love your impressions, as although I am not being nearly as speedy about it as I want, I am trying to add to the Aida documentation on the Aida site as I learn.  There has been way too much material in the past 3 days to keep up with and consolidate, though!

preferedURL
-----------------
My application requires RESTful urls and bookmarkable urls.  The
caching of object / url references caused me some delay while working
on my own application.

Suggestion:  Add a documentation note to the tutorial on how to reset
the cache. (If you had user comments section on your documentation,
this note would have been added by now.)

Yes, there was some good exchange last week on url's that I did not turn into documentation yet!

Is it necessary to cache the references at all.  Is this a performance
issue or part of the basic design?
Could this be a configuration option for a production system.

Janko could tell you there, I'm sure...

WebApplication  >> observee
-----------------------------------------
 --- I know that names are only names but it was not until I realized
that your observee is what many other mvc frameworks would call the
model.  In my mind model objects are designed to be observed.  I would
have found a comment to this effect helpful in the documentation.

I would agree with that and it would fit nicely into the framework page I am trying to update (the one with the graphics)

Rob

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Re: First impressions

Janko Mivšek
In reply to this post by Edward Stow
Hi Edward,

First let me welcome to the Aida world. And we appreciate any fresh
impressions views on Aida, because those views help improving it most,
so please continue with them.

Answers to your questions are below.


Edward Stow wrote:

> preferedURL
> -----------------
> My application requires RESTful urls and bookmarkable urls.  The
> caching of object / url references caused me some delay while working
> on my own application.
>
> Suggestion:  Add a documentation note to the tutorial on how to reset
> the cache. (If you had user comments section on your documentation,
> this note would have been added by now.)
>
> Is it necessary to cache the references at all.  Is this a performance
> issue or part of the basic design?
> Could this be a configuration option for a production system.

By "caching" you probably mean an URLResolver and his memory of
Url-object mappings. If you want to remove some object from here, use

        AIDASite default urlReslover removeObject: myObject.

If you like to change Url to a new prefered one, just do

        AIDASite default urlReslover changeToPreferedURL: myObject

Or did I miss your point?


> WebApplication  >> observee
> -----------------------------------------
>  --- I know that names are only names but it was not until I realized
> that your observee is what many other mvc frameworks would call the
> model.  In my mind model objects are designed to be observed.  I would
> have found a comment to this effect helpful in the documentation.

Agree, that point more to clarify better in documentation. Tutorial was
not clear enough on that?

> Error reporting on the web page.
> ---------------------------------------------
> Make an error that causes a dnu -- the page should display some
> diagnostics on the error.  The debugger stack would be useful at
> least.  Seaside really excels in this area - being able to jump to the
> debugger, fix and proceed.

This is done better in VW but on Squeak I don't yet understand exception
management well. In VW you got an UHE window while on browser you got
500 internal server error. And UHE stays there until you come around and
look at it, usually with a whole stack preserved. Tha't really very
handy for maintenance of production servers, where you usually come
around later and not exactly at the time of user having an error. I
propose that we did the same on Squeak too whila adding a debugging in a
web browser I don't find very usefull from end user standpoint. Maybe
from developer, but again, this is more "cool" that useful IMO.

> So far I'm enjoying the experience ...

Nice to hear that!

JAnko


--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
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Re: First impressions

Nicolas Petton

Le mardi 01 avril 2008 à 20:05 +0200, Janko Mivšek a écrit :

> Hi Edward,
>
> First let me welcome to the Aida world. And we appreciate any fresh
> impressions views on Aida, because those views help improving it most,
> so please continue with them.
>
> Answers to your questions are below.
>
>
> Edward Stow wrote:
>
> > preferedURL
> > -----------------
> > My application requires RESTful urls and bookmarkable urls.  The
> > caching of object / url references caused me some delay while working
> > on my own application.
> >
> > Suggestion:  Add a documentation note to the tutorial on how to reset
> > the cache. (If you had user comments section on your documentation,
> > this note would have been added by now.)
> >
> > Is it necessary to cache the references at all.  Is this a performance
> > issue or part of the basic design?
> > Could this be a configuration option for a production system.
>
> By "caching" you probably mean an URLResolver and his memory of
> Url-object mappings. If you want to remove some object from here, use
>
> AIDASite default urlReslover removeObject: myObject.
>
> If you like to change Url to a new prefered one, just do
>
> AIDASite default urlReslover changeToPreferedURL: myObject
>
> Or did I miss your point?
>
>
> > WebApplication  >> observee
> > -----------------------------------------
> >  --- I know that names are only names but it was not until I realized
> > that your observee is what many other mvc frameworks would call the
> > model.  In my mind model objects are designed to be observed.  I would
> > have found a comment to this effect helpful in the documentation.
>
> Agree, that point more to clarify better in documentation. Tutorial was
> not clear enough on that?
>
> > Error reporting on the web page.
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > Make an error that causes a dnu -- the page should display some
> > diagnostics on the error.  The debugger stack would be useful at
> > least.  Seaside really excels in this area - being able to jump to the
> > debugger, fix and proceed.
>
> This is done better in VW but on Squeak I don't yet understand exception
> management well. In VW you got an UHE window while on browser you got
> 500 internal server error. And UHE stays there until you come around and
> look at it, usually with a whole stack preserved. Tha't really very
> handy for maintenance of production servers, where you usually come
> around later and not exactly at the time of user having an error. I
> propose that we did the same on Squeak too
Janko,

When an error occurs, a debugger is opened in Squeak too. this works
fine with all my images (based on 3.9, 3.10 and Squeak-Dev).

Cheers!

Nico

> whila adding a debugging in a
> web browser I don't find very usefull from end user standpoint. Maybe
> from developer, but again, this is more "cool" that useful IMO.
>
> > So far I'm enjoying the experience ...
>
> Nice to hear that!
>
> JAnko
>
>

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