Form generation and validation

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Form generation and validation

HilaireFernandes
Dear Seaside fellows,

I am wondering which framework/package/methodology you are using in your
web project with Seaside regarding form building and data validation.
I have been looking lengthly at Magritte and more briefly at Mold.

Now I am really wondering about the implication in the long term when it
comes to form generation and validation.
What was your choice and how do you fell about it now?
I will be very glad to read about your experience.

Thanks

Hilaire

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Re: Form generation and validation

jtuchel
Hilaire,

We took mold and extended it. VA Smalltalk has a lot of converters and such that we integrated into our mold descendant. Magritte also looks promising, but back when we started, there was no port for vast.

Joachim



> Am 07.02.2015 um 10:19 schrieb Hilaire <[hidden email]>:
>
> Dear Seaside fellows,
>
> I am wondering which framework/package/methodology you are using in your
> web project with Seaside regarding form building and data validation.
> I have been looking lengthly at Magritte and more briefly at Mold.
>
> Now I am really wondering about the implication in the long term when it
> comes to form generation and validation.
> What was your choice and how do you fell about it now?
> I will be very glad to read about your experience.
>
> Thanks
>
> Hilaire
>
> --
> Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu
> iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
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Re: Form generation and validation

HilaireFernandes
Hi Joachim,

Thanks to share your experience.
In my finding I also realised Mold has to be extended a lot to cover the
vast needs in forms generation and data validation. For example
regarding attribute associated to collection.
In that last part, Magritte is pretty well suited and designed, although
mastering is more difficult.

Hilaire

Le 07/02/2015 18:56, Joachim Tuchel a écrit :
> Hilaire,
>
> We took mold and extended it. VA Smalltalk has a lot of converters and such that we integrated into our mold descendant. Magritte also looks promising, but back when we started, there was no port for vast.
>
> Joachim
>


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Re: Form generation and validation

Stephan Eggermont-3
In reply to this post by HilaireFernandes
We started with a derivative from Mold called Deltawerken. You can see it in action
in the Storyboard application of https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/StoryBoard/
We had a gemstone application deployed for a startup. It worked well.

We then moved to Magritte and extended it with QCMagritte.
It is very powerful, and the learnability for "advanced" features
is difficult. It takes  a lot of time to really grasp the concepts
and to apply them well.  

It was a conscious move to go for a platform with more users/
developers than just us, but so far we have not seen anyone
get farther than just trying it out.

The nice thing about describing the application at a high
abstraction level is that it supports switching technologies.

Stephan


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Re: Form generation and validation

Mariano Martinez Peck
Hi Hilaire.

For the customer I have been working, we are using Magritte. However, we have extended it soooo much that I am not sure which % of magritte we are still using. We use our each component for each type of description (most of them subclasses of Magritte ones), some own descriptions, own memento + own hooks, own table renderer, own magritte-report, own columns... Everything is AJAXfied and Bootstrap styled. 
Quite similar to QCMagritte I would say, but maybe more features. The code is not mine (but my client one) and we are analyzing different possibilities to do something with this CRUD system we developed.  But we must first focus in the domain usage of it (financial app) that we have now. 

All of this is to say that Magritte is good to use it, but you likely need to understand it and extend it to have something really useful. 

Best, 


On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email]> wrote:
We started with a derivative from Mold called Deltawerken. You can see it in action
in the Storyboard application of https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/StoryBoard/
We had a gemstone application deployed for a startup. It worked well.

We then moved to Magritte and extended it with QCMagritte.
It is very powerful, and the learnability for "advanced" features
is difficult. It takes  a lot of time to really grasp the concepts
and to apply them well.

It was a conscious move to go for a platform with more users/
developers than just us, but so far we have not seen anyone
get farther than just trying it out.

The nice thing about describing the application at a high
abstraction level is that it supports switching technologies.

Stephan


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Re: Form generation and validation

Esteban A. Maringolo
I also use Magritte for form validation and editors.

As others also mentioned, Magritte has the building blocks to start
doing what you need.

However, it is not perfectly suited for highly interactive UI's like
nowadays web interfaces, where lots of parts of the UI change in
reaction to others.

I found QCMagritte covers a lot of what could be missing in Magritte,
but its discovery is not straightforward as it is with Magritte, so
you have to look at tests or examples to figure out if it does what
you need and how to use it.

Regards!


Esteban A. Maringolo


2015-02-09 10:18 GMT-03:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Hilaire.
>
> For the customer I have been working, we are using Magritte. However, we
> have extended it soooo much that I am not sure which % of magritte we are
> still using. We use our each component for each type of description (most of
> them subclasses of Magritte ones), some own descriptions, own memento + own
> hooks, own table renderer, own magritte-report, own columns... Everything is
> AJAXfied and Bootstrap styled.
> Quite similar to QCMagritte I would say, but maybe more features. The code
> is not mine (but my client one) and we are analyzing different possibilities
> to do something with this CRUD system we developed.  But we must first focus
> in the domain usage of it (financial app) that we have now.
>
> All of this is to say that Magritte is good to use it, but you likely need
> to understand it and extend it to have something really useful.
>
> Best,

>
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Re: Form generation and validation

HilaireFernandes
Thanks for your valuable feedbacks.
I will try to make my way with Magritte, starting simple and see how I
can scale up along the complexity.

Hilaire

Le 09/02/2015 14:40, Esteban A. Maringolo a écrit :

> I also use Magritte for form validation and editors.
>
> As others also mentioned, Magritte has the building blocks to start
> doing what you need.
>
> However, it is not perfectly suited for highly interactive UI's like
> nowadays web interfaces, where lots of parts of the UI change in
> reaction to others.
>
> I found QCMagritte covers a lot of what could be missing in Magritte,
> but its discovery is not straightforward as it is with Magritte, so
> you have to look at tests or examples to figure out if it does what
> you need and how to use it.
>
> Regards!
>
>
> Esteban A. Maringolo
>
>
> 2015-02-09 10:18 GMT-03:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi Hilaire.
>>
>> For the customer I have been working, we are using Magritte. However, we
>> have extended it soooo much that I am not sure which % of magritte we are
>> still using. We use our each component for each type of description (most of
>> them subclasses of Magritte ones), some own descriptions, own memento + own
>> hooks, own table renderer, own magritte-report, own columns... Everything is
>> AJAXfied and Bootstrap styled.
>> Quite similar to QCMagritte I would say, but maybe more features. The code
>> is not mine (but my client one) and we are analyzing different possibilities
>> to do something with this CRUD system we developed.  But we must first focus
>> in the domain usage of it (financial app) that we have now.
>>
>> All of this is to say that Magritte is good to use it, but you likely need
>> to understand it and extend it to have something really useful.
>>
>> Best,


--
Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu
iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu


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Re: Form generation and validation

HilaireFernandes
In reply to this post by Stephan Eggermont-3
Le 09/02/2015 13:00, Stephan Eggermont a écrit :
> It was a conscious move to go for a platform with more users/
> developers than just us, but so far we have not seen anyone
> get farther than just trying it out.
My felling is the lack of documentation may be the cause, I mean the one
you need to really get Magritte useful. The documentation you can read
is about basic usage, which is good for trying it out but more is needed
for real project. I will be glad to write some notes in the appropriate
place (where?) as my understanding progress.

For example searching for "Magritte how to write description component"
does not bring much:
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=magritte+how+to+write+description+and+component


Thanks

Hilaire

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iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu


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