Four proposals to improve Seaside
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Four proposals to improve Seaside
 
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http://thesmalltalkblog.blogspot.com Comments and critics welcome! -- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger01 _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:seaside- > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of > [hidden email] > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 10:04 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [Seaside] Four proposals to improve Seaside > > There are 4 new concrete technical proposals how to improve Seaside and > one more comment on my blog: > > http://thesmalltalkblog.blogspot.com > > Comments and critics welcome! What do you know, not one of them makes sense. 9. Seaside works with various web servers, WARequest is the adaptor they can all use to work with Seaside. Your criticizing Seaside because you modified Swazoo and duplicated code you also modified in Seaside. Absurd. 8, 7. Use Apache to serve up static content like every other sane person and recognize that Seaside does it for development convenience, not for handling production load that requires it to be insanely fast. The rest of the world works with files and pathnames, and for serving web content and staying compatible, so should Seaside. 6. You're over playing the accepted use of this "new" convention, yea, some people do it and just as many don't. It's an issue of personal style, not some big well known convention Seaside is ignoring. We have method protocols for a reason, we don't have to duplicate them in the method names. You want to know if something is a constructor, look at the protocol, not a naming pattern. Ramon Leon http://onsmalltalk.com _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Ramon Leon <[hidden email]> wrote:
Please, please, stop feeding the troll. Even if the fellow has legitimate complaints, I see no reason to engage someone too scared to use his own name, yet all too willing to accuse others by name of behaving with malice aforethought. Part of why I've enjoyed using Squeak off and on for the last thirteen years (!) at this point is that, for the most part, despite any of its flaws, I've found its community bright, friendly, and open. These threads are at best one of three; at worst, exercises in megalomaniacal hubris.
Here's my suggestion: the overwhelming number of "horrible problems" that have been pointed out so far (admittedly excepting documentation) can be "fixed" in about an hour using the Rewrite Tool and the Refactoring Browser. Rather than complaining so loudly about horrible conspiracies, the blogger can simply make the changes, publish a changeset or Monticello package somewhere, announce it, and let us all take a look. If the new Seaside is better, I'll be happy to use it--as, I'm sure, would many other Seaside developers. Otherwise, I'll stick to the existing code base, which has served me wonderfully.
In the meantime, I've added a rule to Gmail to automatically trash these threads, since the incredibly personal nature of the nominally objective attacks sadden me, and I do not wish to view them. I would gently encourage other readers on this list to do the same and get back to work.
Cheers, --Benjamin _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: RE: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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In reply to this post by Ramon Leon-5
Well, I begin to understand that Seaside was made only for such ingenious people - and that I am still ages away to be one of them and that I will probably never make it there.
9. Your criticizing Seaside because you modified Swazoo and duplicated code you also modified in Seaside. Absurd. But even so great wise people like you sometimes don't read carefully and therefore don't understand what they read. You better read the comments on this post for more explanation! (You are 100% completely off the subject with your reply)
-- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger01 _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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In reply to this post by Benjamin Pollack
Yep. Seems like someone more interested in linkbaiting their blog than
making productive change. Added Mr Cucumber to kill file. On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Benjamin Pollack <[hidden email]> wrote: > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Ramon Leon <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [hidden email] [mailto:seaside- >> > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of >> > [hidden email] >> > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 10:04 AM >> > To: [hidden email] >> > Subject: [Seaside] Four proposals to improve Seaside >> > >> > There are 4 new concrete technical proposals how to improve Seaside and >> > one more comment on my blog: >> > >> > http://thesmalltalkblog.blogspot.com >> > >> > Comments and critics welcome! >> >> What do you know, not one of them makes sense. >> >> 9. Seaside works with various web servers, WARequest is the adaptor they >> can >> all use to work with Seaside. Your criticizing Seaside because you >> modified >> Swazoo and duplicated code you also modified in Seaside. Absurd. >> >> 8, 7. Use Apache to serve up static content like every other sane person >> and recognize that Seaside does it for development convenience, not for >> handling production load that requires it to be insanely fast. The rest >> of >> the world works with files and pathnames, and for serving web content and >> staying compatible, so should Seaside. >> >> 6. You're over playing the accepted use of this "new" convention, yea, >> some >> people do it and just as many don't. It's an issue of personal style, not >> some big well known convention Seaside is ignoring. We have method >> protocols for a reason, we don't have to duplicate them in the method >> names. >> You want to know if something is a constructor, look at the protocol, not >> a >> naming pattern. >> >> Ramon Leon >> http://onsmalltalk.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> seaside mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > Please, please, stop feeding the troll. Even if the fellow has legitimate > complaints, I see no reason to engage someone too scared to use his own > name, yet all too willing to accuse others by name of behaving with malice > aforethought. Part of why I've enjoyed using Squeak off and on for the last > thirteen years (!) at this point is that, for the most part, despite any of > its flaws, I've found its community bright, friendly, and open. These > threads are at best one of three; at worst, exercises in megalomaniacal > hubris. > Here's my suggestion: the overwhelming number of "horrible problems" that > have been pointed out so far (admittedly excepting documentation) can be > "fixed" in about an hour using the Rewrite Tool and the Refactoring Browser. > Rather than complaining so loudly about horrible conspiracies, the blogger > can simply make the changes, publish a changeset or Monticello package > somewhere, announce it, and let us all take a look. If the new Seaside is > better, I'll be happy to use it--as, I'm sure, would many other Seaside > developers. Otherwise, I'll stick to the existing code base, which has > served me wonderfully. > In the meantime, I've added a rule to Gmail to automatically trash these > threads, since the incredibly personal nature of the nominally objective > attacks sadden me, and I do not wish to view them. I would gently encourage > other readers on this list to do the same and get back to work. > Cheers, > --Benjamin > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by TheSmalltalkBlog
A few years ago there was a troll like this at
comp.lang.smalltalk. The pattern of behavior is either very similar or the
same. Maybe it's the same person, and the reason for the anonymity is so
as not to be identified as such?
Víctor
_______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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In reply to this post by TheSmalltalkBlog
2009/4/20 <[hidden email]>:
> There are 4 new concrete technical proposals how to improve Seaside and one > more comment on my blog: > > http://thesmalltalkblog.blogspot.com > > Comments and critics welcome! Proposal 9: WARequest is what gives us our portability across web servers which is key to our portability across dialects. We run on Comanche, Swazoo 1, Swazoo 2, OpenTalk, FastCGI, AJP, Cherokee, Squeak, Pharo, GemStone, VisualWorks, ObjectStudio, VisualAge, Dolphin and more. To do all this we need to have one common abstraction with clearly defined semantics. We additionally need to be in control of this abstraction so we can add and change behavior when need it without being tied to the release cycle of a dialect or server. This abstraction is WARequest (and WAResponse). Proposal 7: WAFileLibrary is not and never was recommended for production use. We recommend Apache to serve static files. See the archives for several discussion on this topic. Proposal 2: Only applies to VW port. See blog post of JayRo. For VW related topics please use the VW mailing lists. If you have suggestions for improvements the place to post them in the issue tracker [1] and not on this list. Discussion of the relevant issue can happen there. Seaside development is discussed on the Seaside developer mailing list [2]. Having patches in Monticello helps. [1] http://code.google.com/p/seaside/issues/list [2] mailto:[hidden email] Cheers Philippe _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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In reply to this post by TheSmalltalkBlog
Hi, I would like to say that your comments and criticisms haven't done anything to nurture/evolve the Seaside framework. Furthermore, if you feel so strongly about the short comings of the Seaside framework, why haven't you done one of the following:
a) presented argument(s) in a constructive manner
b) contributed code c) submitted bug/enhancement requests
d) all of the above You'll never be heard until you can do at least one of the above. Next, a blog is a cool thing to have but I wouldn't create one with rhetoric in the hopes to get something changed that's managed elsewhere. Finally, I hope that the blog works out for you and I should create one too to let my doctor know that she has been doing an awesome job. Oh wait, I can just call my doctor. OK, I can create a blog to let Apple know about a cool enhancement that I would like added to one of their Cocoa APIs. Oh wait, I can submit an enhancement request directly to Apple because they will not waste their time going to my website to track issues within their software.
Just my 2 cents, -Conrad On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:04 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
_______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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It's all been said on my blog - about the "whys".
But reading does not mean understanding! For that it needs the will to understand. The mailing list has had it's chance several times. Read History of my critics http://thesmalltalkblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/history-of-my-critics.html But there are far more people out there interested in Smalltalk or maybe considering to use or even using Seaside with similar problems. For them my comments are valuable aspects - as I was already told by email. If you guys here really believe that they need not document code and improve the serious issues that I have mentioned (and I have not yet really started) then Seaside won't make it out of its exotic corner. Just like (seen relatively) Smalltalk has never made it, because the ParcPlace people were so damn arrogant (also my own experience in the 90ies). Unfortunately. Again: Price goes before a fall!
-- Neu: GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate + Telefonanschluss für nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://dslspecial.gmx.de/freedsl-surfflat/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K11308T4569a _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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plonk
_______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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In reply to this post by Benjamin Pollack
> In the meantime, I've added a rule to Gmail to automatically trash these
> threads, since the incredibly personal nature of the nominally objective > attacks sadden me, and I do not wish to view them. I would gently encourage > other readers on this list to do the same and get back to work. There is always signal in the noise, but the noise here is getting too high. Because of bad signal-to-noise ratio, I follow Benjamin's advice and: "plonk". Andreas _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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In reply to this post by Benjamin Pollack
+1 Berto _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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In reply to this post by Benjamin Pollack
Hi Benjamin,
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Benjamin Pollack <[hidden email]> wrote: > In the meantime, I've added a rule to Gmail to automatically trash these > threads ... an excellent idea. Let me see... create filter... ;-) Best, Michael _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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Le mardi 21 avril 2009 à 19:26 +0200, Michael Haupt a écrit :
> Hi Benjamin, > > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Benjamin Pollack > <[hidden email]> wrote: > > In the meantime, I've added a rule to Gmail to automatically trash these > > threads ... > > an excellent idea. Let me see... create filter... ;-) Good idea, I just did it too! Cheers, Nicolas -- Nicolas Petton http://nico.aidaweb.si ___ ooooooo OOOOOOOOO |Smalltalk| OOOOOOOOO ooooooo \ / [|] -------------------------------- Ma clé PGP est disponible ici : http://nico.aidaweb.si/pgp-key.html _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Re: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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Who else did it? Maybe everybody who setup such a filter could send a
short email? And everybody who didn´t! And the funny guys could just send a smilie or something or a comical word... ...how about a filter to get rid off these disgusting spam? Go and get yourself an instant messanger or something else. nico schrieb: > Le mardi 21 avril 2009 à 19:26 +0200, Michael Haupt a écrit : > >> Hi Benjamin, >> >> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Benjamin Pollack >> <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> In the meantime, I've added a rule to Gmail to automatically trash these >>> threads ... >>> >> an excellent idea. Let me see... create filter... ;-) >> > > Good idea, I just did it too! > > Cheers, > > Nicolas > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Four proposals to improve Seaside
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>>>>> "Marco" == Marco Leberfing <[hidden email]> writes:
Marco> Who else did it? Maybe everybody who setup such a filter could send a short Marco> email? And everybody who didn´t! Marco> And the funny guys could just send a smilie or something or a comical word... Marco> ...how about a filter to get rid off these disgusting spam? Marco> Go and get yourself an instant messanger or something else. Are you complaining that people are publicly announcing that they are now filtering someone who has been disruptive? If so, you're going against longstanding Internet tradition (since before it was called the internet). A public shunning ("plonk!") is nearly always a sign that someone of respect in a community has finally "had enough" of someone who doesn't "play well with others", and is a call-to-action for others to join the same shunning. In some places I've been, your complaint about this well-established process might itself have earned you a similar plonking. However, I'm willing to accept your reaction as merely being uninformed. You are now informed. :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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I have this rendering code, in which the evaluator periodically
evaluates this callback, the callback re-renders this code. I seem to have 100+ Mb of callbacks in memory which dont get clearup by the tradidional clearAllHandlers. Anyone have a clue what is going on, and how to get my mempry back? thanks in advance Keith div script: ( html evaluator every: self delay seconds; callback: [ :s | self goNext. self applyCrossFadeTo: s. ] ). _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Randal L. Schwartz
Count me in. It was toxic from the start and I see no redeeming value in continuing to read about something which appears to me as a ploy to get visitors to his blog.
Ching
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 2:44 AM, Randal L. Schwartz <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> "Marco" == Marco Leberfing <[hidden email]> writes: _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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