Fwd: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))

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Fwd: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))

Igor Stasenko
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David T. Lewis <[hidden email]>
Date: 2009/12/27
Subject: Re: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR
(Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
<[hidden email]>


I have put the updates for large changes and sources files into the
inbox. I would appreciate if someone can review this before moving
into trunk.

There are three mcz updates:
 Files-dtl.62
 System-dtl.205
 Kernel-dtl.347

Important: The changes *must* be loaded in the order listed above.
This will require a configuration map update when the changes are
moved to trunk.

The use of ExpandedSourceFileArray takes effect after the first
image restart. To change back to using the StandardSourceFileArray,
the procedure is as follows:

 1) Evaluate 'StandardSourceFileArray install'
 2) Edit SourceFileArray class>>concreteClass to answer
   StandardSourceFileArray rather than ExpandedSourceFileArray.

Thanks,
Dave





--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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Re: Fwd: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))

David T. Lewis
Note, the change sets for this update are also on Mantis
  http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=5205
along with discussion of other approaches to the problem.

These changes are now in Squeak trunk.

Dave

On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 09:19:46PM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David T. Lewis <[hidden email]>
> Date: 2009/12/27
> Subject: Re: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR
> (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))
> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> <[hidden email]>
>
>
> I have put the updates for large changes and sources files into the
> inbox. I would appreciate if someone can review this before moving
> into trunk.
>
> There are three mcz updates:
> ??Files-dtl.62
> ??System-dtl.205
> ??Kernel-dtl.347
>
> Important: The changes *must* be loaded in the order listed above.
> This will require a configuration map update when the changes are
> moved to trunk.
>
> The use of ExpandedSourceFileArray takes effect after the first
> image restart. To change back to using the StandardSourceFileArray,
> the procedure is as follows:
>
> ??1) Evaluate 'StandardSourceFileArray install'
> ??2) Edit SourceFileArray class>>concreteClass to answer
> ?? ??StandardSourceFileArray rather than ExpandedSourceFileArray.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: Fwd: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))

Stéphane Ducasse
Thanks David.
I will look at the methodTrailer fixes soon. Now my knowledge is limited
in this area and I would prefer to have marcus have a look.
I will at least check the code and see if it looks ok.

Stef

On Dec 27, 2009, at 8:25 PM, David T. Lewis wrote:

> Note, the change sets for this update are also on Mantis
>  http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=5205
> along with discussion of other approaches to the problem.
>
> These changes are now in Squeak trunk.
>
> Dave
>
> On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 09:19:46PM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: David T. Lewis <[hidden email]>
>> Date: 2009/12/27
>> Subject: Re: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR
>> (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))
>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
>> <[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>> I have put the updates for large changes and sources files into the
>> inbox. I would appreciate if someone can review this before moving
>> into trunk.
>>
>> There are three mcz updates:
>> ??Files-dtl.62
>> ??System-dtl.205
>> ??Kernel-dtl.347
>>
>> Important: The changes *must* be loaded in the order listed above.
>> This will require a configuration map update when the changes are
>> moved to trunk.
>>
>> The use of ExpandedSourceFileArray takes effect after the first
>> image restart. To change back to using the StandardSourceFileArray,
>> the procedure is as follows:
>>
>> ??1) Evaluate 'StandardSourceFileArray install'
>> ??2) Edit SourceFileArray class>>concreteClass to answer
>> ?? ??StandardSourceFileArray rather than ExpandedSourceFileArray.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: Fwd: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))

David T. Lewis
FYI Marcus provided a solution to this problem back in 2006, see
http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=4369 (but the original author
may be Klaus Witzel). So Marcus will understand the issue well :)

Dave

On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 09:20:20PM +0100, St?phane Ducasse wrote:

> Thanks David.
> I will look at the methodTrailer fixes soon. Now my knowledge is limited
> in this area and I would prefer to have marcus have a look.
> I will at least check the code and see if it looks ok.
>
> Stef
>
> On Dec 27, 2009, at 8:25 PM, David T. Lewis wrote:
>
> > Note, the change sets for this update are also on Mantis
> >  http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=5205
> > along with discussion of other approaches to the problem.
> >
> > These changes are now in Squeak trunk.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 09:19:46PM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: David T. Lewis <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: 2009/12/27
> >> Subject: Re: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR
> >> (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))
> >> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> >> <[hidden email]>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have put the updates for large changes and sources files into the
> >> inbox. I would appreciate if someone can review this before moving
> >> into trunk.
> >>
> >> There are three mcz updates:
> >> ??Files-dtl.62
> >> ??System-dtl.205
> >> ??Kernel-dtl.347
> >>
> >> Important: The changes *must* be loaded in the order listed above.
> >> This will require a configuration map update when the changes are
> >> moved to trunk.
> >>
> >> The use of ExpandedSourceFileArray takes effect after the first
> >> image restart. To change back to using the StandardSourceFileArray,
> >> the procedure is as follows:
> >>
> >> ??1) Evaluate 'StandardSourceFileArray install'
> >> ??2) Edit SourceFileArray class>>concreteClass to answer
> >> ?? ??StandardSourceFileArray rather than ExpandedSourceFileArray.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best regards,
> >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Pharo-project mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pharo-project mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: Fwd: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))

Stéphane Ducasse
Yes :)

Marcus would like to have code inside the image... since a couple of years :)
Stef
On Dec 27, 2009, at 11:32 PM, David T. Lewis wrote:

> FYI Marcus provided a solution to this problem back in 2006, see
> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=4369 (but the original author
> may be Klaus Witzel). So Marcus will understand the issue well :)
>
> Dave
>
> On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 09:20:20PM +0100, St?phane Ducasse wrote:
>> Thanks David.
>> I will look at the methodTrailer fixes soon. Now my knowledge is limited
>> in this area and I would prefer to have marcus have a look.
>> I will at least check the code and see if it looks ok.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2009, at 8:25 PM, David T. Lewis wrote:
>>
>>> Note, the change sets for this update are also on Mantis
>>> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=5205
>>> along with discussion of other approaches to the problem.
>>>
>>> These changes are now in Squeak trunk.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 09:19:46PM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: David T. Lewis <[hidden email]>
>>>> Date: 2009/12/27
>>>> Subject: Re: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR
>>>> (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))
>>>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have put the updates for large changes and sources files into the
>>>> inbox. I would appreciate if someone can review this before moving
>>>> into trunk.
>>>>
>>>> There are three mcz updates:
>>>> ??Files-dtl.62
>>>> ??System-dtl.205
>>>> ??Kernel-dtl.347
>>>>
>>>> Important: The changes *must* be loaded in the order listed above.
>>>> This will require a configuration map update when the changes are
>>>> moved to trunk.
>>>>
>>>> The use of ExpandedSourceFileArray takes effect after the first
>>>> image restart. To change back to using the StandardSourceFileArray,
>>>> the procedure is as follows:
>>>>
>>>> ??1) Evaluate 'StandardSourceFileArray install'
>>>> ??2) Edit SourceFileArray class>>concreteClass to answer
>>>> ?? ??StandardSourceFileArray rather than ExpandedSourceFileArray.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: Fwd: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))

Marcus Denker-4

On Dec 28, 2009, at 11:27 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

> Yes :)
>
> Marcus would like to have code inside the image... since a couple of years :)

yes... Klaus Witzel worked on this some years ago (I think even after I told him that
this would be high on my list... Klaus used to live in Bern and visited the Squeak meeting
there regularly.)

This did not make it into 3.9... we ran a bit out of steam at the end :-)

Maybe I should explain that I did 3.9 in parallel to my PhD work. Unpayed, with no hidden
side agenda other than the realization that one can't invent the future if one can not even fix a typo in a comment.

I think one could critisize that I just integrated other peoples fixes... but that had multiple reasons:

1) Focus was on the PhD.... and doing all these boring things that are a lot of work that one needs to do to have a future
in Research.

2) Of what use is it to do some cool enancement for Squeak if chances of integration are zero? I never understood
the brave people who did sent patch after patch with almost nothing ending up in the system.

3) Integrating is far less trivial than people might think.

Integrating is especially difficult in a system "with a history" like Squeak. But in the end, I think we did a good job with 3.9.
Regardless of what people said afterwards... I guess now everyone agrees, after all those evil things we did that people crucified
us for turned out to be not that bad after all.

        Marcus


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Re: Fwd: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))

Stéphane Ducasse
Marcus
Don't bame yourself. You did a good job and of course we could have stop earth to turn on itself
but got no time for that :)

Now the cool news is that there is the cool CompiledMethodTrailer in pharo1.1
and the changes of david lewis that are waiting for you :)....

Rest from your Ikea unfolding and building furnitures :)
I should rest from projects writing but I have one to write.... and I want it.
Stef


>
> On Dec 28, 2009, at 11:27 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
>> Yes :)
>>
>> Marcus would like to have code inside the image... since a couple of years :)
>
> yes... Klaus Witzel worked on this some years ago (I think even after I told him that
> this would be high on my list... Klaus used to live in Bern and visited the Squeak meeting
> there regularly.)
>
> This did not make it into 3.9... we ran a bit out of steam at the end :-)
>
> Maybe I should explain that I did 3.9 in parallel to my PhD work. Unpayed, with no hidden
> side agenda other than the realization that one can't invent the future if one can not even fix a typo in a comment.
>
> I think one could critisize that I just integrated other peoples fixes... but that had multiple reasons:
>
> 1) Focus was on the PhD.... and doing all these boring things that are a lot of work that one needs to do to have a future
> in Research.
>
> 2) Of what use is it to do some cool enancement for Squeak if chances of integration are zero? I never understood
> the brave people who did sent patch after patch with almost nothing ending up in the system.
>
> 3) Integrating is far less trivial than people might think.
>
> Integrating is especially difficult in a system "with a history" like Squeak. But in the end, I think we did a good job with 3.9.
> Regardless of what people said afterwards... I guess now everyone agrees, after all those evil things we did that people crucified
> us for turned out to be not that bad after all.
>
> Marcus
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: Fwd: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))

David T. Lewis
In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 08:49:23PM +0100, Marcus Denker wrote:

>
> On Dec 28, 2009, at 11:27 AM, St?phane Ducasse wrote:
>
> > Yes :)
> >
> > Marcus would like to have code inside the image... since a couple of years :)
>
> yes... Klaus Witzel worked on this some years ago (I think even after I told him that
> this would be high on my list... Klaus used to live in Bern and visited the Squeak meeting
> there regularly.)
>
> This did not make it into 3.9... we ran a bit out of steam at the end :-)
>
> Maybe I should explain that I did 3.9 in parallel to my PhD work. Unpayed, with no hidden
> side agenda other than the realization that one can't invent the future if one can not even fix a typo in a comment.
>
> I think one could critisize that I just integrated other peoples fixes... but that had multiple reasons:
>
> 1) Focus was on the PhD.... and doing all these boring things that are a lot of work that one needs to do to have a future
> in Research.
>
> 2) Of what use is it to do some cool enancement for Squeak if chances of integration are zero? I never understood
> the brave people who did sent patch after patch with almost nothing ending up in the system.
>
> 3) Integrating is far less trivial than people might think.
>
> Integrating is especially difficult in a system "with a history" like Squeak. But in the end, I think we did a good job with 3.9.
> Regardless of what people said afterwards... I guess now everyone agrees, after all those evil things we did that people crucified
> us for turned out to be not that bad after all.

Marcus,

Absolutely yes, on both counts. System integration really is hard work, and
it is much more difficult and time consuming that it appears to be. Also you
produced a good job with 3.9, with lots of progress that forms the basis of
Pharo and Squeak trunk today. So thank you!

It is an interesting challenge to do work like this using tools like a mailing
list and bug trackers. It is very easy for negative ideas to be echoed endlessly,
to the point where they seem to have their own credibility. The positive
comments are less common and nobody ever wants to argue about them, so the
echoes fade away quickly.

Dave


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