Fwd: Status of Alien FFI

> From: Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]>
> Date: September 19, 2009 12:44:43 AM CEDT
> To: Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Status of Alien FFI
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 12:29 AM, Stéphane Ducasse
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Martin McClure <[hidden email]>
>>> Date: September 18, 2009 12:57:43 AM CEDT
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Status of Alien FFI
>>> Reply-To: [hidden email]
>>>
>>> Johan Brichau wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 16 Sep 2009, at 20:37, Ken Treis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> * I'm creating a partial Alien library for GemStone so that I can
>>>>> use the CairoGraphics package in both Pharo and GLASS. But on
>>>>> x86-64, there there's a size difference between a pointer/long and
>>>>> an integer. It'd be nice to have some more explicit APIs on Alien,
>>>>> so I could say "Alien newCInteger" or "Alien newCLong" and have  
>>>>> the
>>>>> platform return me the proper size Alien. Even without the  
>>>>> platform
>>>>> size differences, it seems awkward to use "Alien newC: 4"  
>>>>> everywhere
>>>>> I want an integer, "Alien newC: 8" where I want a double, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly.
>>>>
>>>> It becomes worse once you start having structs and nested structs  
>>>> or
>>>> structs with pointers to structs ;-)
>>>>
>>>> I'm using Alien as the FFI to port JavaConnect from Visualworks to
>>>> Pharo/Squeak. As you say, it is a pain to work at such a low-level
>>>> compared to the DLLCC in VW. I am planning to do some work on  
>>>> creating
>>>> a higher-level interface for it such that we can operate it as you
>>>> mention, including the correct bytesizes for all platforms.
>>>>
>>>> At the moment, I'm mostly focusing on getting the port to work  
>>>> right
>>>> before I start creating an interface on top of the current Alien
>>>> interface.
>>>
>>> I'd like to work toward a standard FFI that works across many  
>>> Smalltalk
>>> dialects. Right now, it's too hard to port packages such as
>>> CairoGraphics that call large external libraries. A year ago, I  
>>> tried
>>> porting CairoGraphics from VW to an early version of GemStone's  
>>> FFI. It
>>> was way too much work.
>>>
>>> And GemStone/S 64-bit 3.0, due out probably sometime next year, will
>>> have a completely new FFI. It's probably not too late to influence  
>>> the
>>> design for better compatibility.
>>>
>>> Is Alien, possibly with some changes, a suitable cross-platform
>>> cross-dialect FFI standard? Or is it too low-level?
>
> I think it is OK as a substrate for data representation but not for
> calls.  It is a little low-level but also a lot simpler and easier to
> use than CDatum et al.  I'm attaching the doc and you ca make up your
> own mind.
>
>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> -Martin
>>>
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>>
>>