Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: [Vm-dev] Re: squeak VM 5.0

> excellent
> can you sync with marcus?
> We will have to clean SystemDictionary because this is not a namespace but a kind of clean trash. (when I compared to what is was).
> I will start to think about what we want. but in a nutshell
>
> - a namespace class that only deals with binding (may be class Smalltalk)
> - a class that deals with image and VM code (may be called SmalltalkImage)
>
> Stef
>
> On Dec 17, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Laval Jannik wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I modify the variable in the method "clonePreStartup".
>> So, it works fine.
>>
>> =====
>> !SystemTracer2 methodsFor: 'clone startup' stamp: 'ajh 8/22/2002 11:15'!
>> clonePreStartup
>> "This will be executed right away when the new clone starts up, before processStartup.  Subclasses may want to rehash all objects or something"
>> SystemDictionary wordSize: self wordSize.! !
>> =====
>>
>> Now, there are some tests which does not pass.
>> So, I will publish the code and the pharoImage64, and with the community, we can check this.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jannik
>>
>>
>> On Dec 17, 2009, at 02:32 , John M McIntosh wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, well I created Mantis
>>> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7430
>>> to document.
>>>
>>> Personally I would do
>>> Smalltalk wordSize
>>> versus
>>> SystemDictionary wordSize
>>>
>>> Also the issue is when to change the WordSize variable.
>>>
>>> I think in
>>> SmalltalkImage>>snapshot: andQuit: embedded:  
>>> right at the
>>> ifTrue: [self quitPrimitive].
>>> Cursor normal show.
>>> you want to set things so that wordSize is reset.
>>>
>>> At quit time you could do the reset before the
>>> "self quitPrimitive"
>>> then you know the value is reset and needs to be recalculated at startup time.
>>> or you can reset it before the
>>> Cursor normal show.
>>> which runs after startup time
>>>
>>> Somehow I think there is more risk resetting it after startup since I'm not sure
>>> when something could leap in wanting a valid value.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2009-12-16, at 2:44 PM, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Eliot, hi John,
>>>>
>>>> This is what I do:
>>>> - create a class var in SystemDictionary
>>>> - accessors (wordSize and wordSize:), the first one can initialize the variable if nil, the second is to modify the value in case of 64bits image.
>>>> Maybe the second one could be integrated in System-Tracing file.
>>>> - in CompiledMethod, initialPC use it.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe we could integrate it in pharoCore.
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ===========================================================================
>>> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
>>> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
>>> ===========================================================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

>> excellent
>> can you sync with marcus?
>> We will have to clean SystemDictionary because this is not a namespace but a kind of clean trash. (when I compared to what is was).
>> I will start to think about what we want. but in a nutshell
>>
>> - a namespace class that only deals with binding (may be class Smalltalk)
>> - a class that deals with image and VM code (may be called SmalltalkImage)
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Dec 17, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I modify the variable in the method "clonePreStartup".
>>> So, it works fine.
>>>
>>> =====
>>> !SystemTracer2 methodsFor: 'clone startup' stamp: 'ajh 8/22/2002 11:15'!
>>> clonePreStartup
>>> "This will be executed right away when the new clone starts up, before processStartup.  Subclasses may want to rehash all objects or something"
>>> SystemDictionary wordSize: self wordSize.! !
>>> =====
>>>
>>> Now, there are some tests which does not pass.
>>> So, I will publish the code and the pharoImage64, and with the community, we can check this.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jannik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 17, 2009, at 02:32 , John M McIntosh wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, well I created Mantis
>>>> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7430
>>>> to document.
>>>>
>>>> Personally I would do
>>>> Smalltalk wordSize
>>>> versus
>>>> SystemDictionary wordSize
>>>>
>>>> Also the issue is when to change the WordSize variable.
>>>>
>>>> I think in
>>>> SmalltalkImage>>snapshot: andQuit: embedded:  
>>>> right at the
>>>> ifTrue: [self quitPrimitive].
>>>> Cursor normal show.
>>>> you want to set things so that wordSize is reset.
>>>>
>>>> At quit time you could do the reset before the
>>>> "self quitPrimitive"
>>>> then you know the value is reset and needs to be recalculated at startup time.
>>>> or you can reset it before the
>>>> Cursor normal show.
>>>> which runs after startup time
>>>>
>>>> Somehow I think there is more risk resetting it after startup since I'm not sure
>>>> when something could leap in wanting a valid value.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2009-12-16, at 2:44 PM, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Eliot, hi John,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is what I do:
>>>>> - create a class var in SystemDictionary
>>>>> - accessors (wordSize and wordSize:), the first one can initialize the variable if nil, the second is to modify the value in case of 64bits image.
>>>>> Maybe the second one could be integrated in System-Tracing file.
>>>>> - in CompiledMethod, initialPC use it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe we could integrate it in pharoCore.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ===========================================================================
>>>> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
>>>> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
>>>> ===========================================================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

>
> Cheers,
> Henry
>
> On Dec 17, 2009, at 8:44 46AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
>>> excellent
>>> can you sync with marcus?
>>> We will have to clean SystemDictionary because this is not a namespace but a kind of clean trash. (when I compared to what is was).
>>> I will start to think about what we want. but in a nutshell
>>>
>>> - a namespace class that only deals with binding (may be class Smalltalk)
>>> - a class that deals with image and VM code (may be called SmalltalkImage)
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> On Dec 17, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I modify the variable in the method "clonePreStartup".
>>>> So, it works fine.
>>>>
>>>> =====
>>>> !SystemTracer2 methodsFor: 'clone startup' stamp: 'ajh 8/22/2002 11:15'!
>>>> clonePreStartup
>>>> "This will be executed right away when the new clone starts up, before processStartup.  Subclasses may want to rehash all objects or something"
>>>> SystemDictionary wordSize: self wordSize.! !
>>>> =====
>>>>
>>>> Now, there are some tests which does not pass.
>>>> So, I will publish the code and the pharoImage64, and with the community, we can check this.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jannik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 17, 2009, at 02:32 , John M McIntosh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ok, well I created Mantis
>>>>> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7430
>>>>> to document.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I would do
>>>>> Smalltalk wordSize
>>>>> versus
>>>>> SystemDictionary wordSize
>>>>>
>>>>> Also the issue is when to change the WordSize variable.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think in
>>>>> SmalltalkImage>>snapshot: andQuit: embedded:  
>>>>> right at the
>>>>> ifTrue: [self quitPrimitive].
>>>>> Cursor normal show.
>>>>> you want to set things so that wordSize is reset.
>>>>>
>>>>> At quit time you could do the reset before the
>>>>> "self quitPrimitive"
>>>>> then you know the value is reset and needs to be recalculated at startup time.
>>>>> or you can reset it before the
>>>>> Cursor normal show.
>>>>> which runs after startup time
>>>>>
>>>>> Somehow I think there is more risk resetting it after startup since I'm not sure
>>>>> when something could leap in wanting a valid value.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2009-12-16, at 2:44 PM, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Eliot, hi John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is what I do:
>>>>>> - create a class var in SystemDictionary
>>>>>> - accessors (wordSize and wordSize:), the first one can initialize the variable if nil, the second is to modify the value in case of 64bits image.
>>>>>> Maybe the second one could be integrated in System-Tracing file.
>>>>>> - in CompiledMethod, initialPC use it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe we could integrate it in pharoCore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ===========================================================================
>>>>> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
>>>>> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
>>>>> ===========================================================================
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

>
> Cheers,
> Henry
>
> On Dec 17, 2009, at 8:44 46AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
>>> excellent
>>> can you sync with marcus?
>>> We will have to clean SystemDictionary because this is not a namespace but a kind of clean trash. (when I compared to what is was).
>>> I will start to think about what we want. but in a nutshell
>>>
>>> - a namespace class that only deals with binding (may be class Smalltalk)
>>> - a class that deals with image and VM code (may be called SmalltalkImage)
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> On Dec 17, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I modify the variable in the method "clonePreStartup".
>>>> So, it works fine.
>>>>
>>>> =====
>>>> !SystemTracer2 methodsFor: 'clone startup' stamp: 'ajh 8/22/2002 11:15'!
>>>> clonePreStartup
>>>> "This will be executed right away when the new clone starts up, before processStartup.  Subclasses may want to rehash all objects or something"
>>>> SystemDictionary wordSize: self wordSize.! !
>>>> =====
>>>>
>>>> Now, there are some tests which does not pass.
>>>> So, I will publish the code and the pharoImage64, and with the community, we can check this.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jannik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 17, 2009, at 02:32 , John M McIntosh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ok, well I created Mantis
>>>>> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7430
>>>>> to document.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I would do
>>>>> Smalltalk wordSize
>>>>> versus
>>>>> SystemDictionary wordSize
>>>>>
>>>>> Also the issue is when to change the WordSize variable.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think in
>>>>> SmalltalkImage>>snapshot: andQuit: embedded:  
>>>>> right at the
>>>>> ifTrue: [self quitPrimitive].
>>>>> Cursor normal show.
>>>>> you want to set things so that wordSize is reset.
>>>>>
>>>>> At quit time you could do the reset before the
>>>>> "self quitPrimitive"
>>>>> then you know the value is reset and needs to be recalculated at startup time.
>>>>> or you can reset it before the
>>>>> Cursor normal show.
>>>>> which runs after startup time
>>>>>
>>>>> Somehow I think there is more risk resetting it after startup since I'm not sure
>>>>> when something could leap in wanting a valid value.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2009-12-16, at 2:44 PM, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Eliot, hi John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is what I do:
>>>>>> - create a class var in SystemDictionary
>>>>>> - accessors (wordSize and wordSize:), the first one can initialize the variable if nil, the second is to modify the value in case of 64bits image.
>>>>>> Maybe the second one could be integrated in System-Tracing file.
>>>>>> - in CompiledMethod, initialPC use it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe we could integrate it in pharoCore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ===========================================================================
>>>>> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
>>>>> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
>>>>> ===========================================================================
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:22 AM, Henrik Johansen wrote:
>
>    
>> I agree it seems to belong more in SmalltalkImage current than Smalltalk .
>>
>> TBH, I wouldn't mind if we split off a SmalltalkVM class as well :)
>>      
> :)
> What would you be an extreme abstractor :)
>
> BTW henrik it is snowing at your place because here eveyrthing is white but not deep enough to have fun with it.
>    

>    
>> I'm wondering about the comment in  vmParameterAt: though, which states 40 is "VM word size - 4 or 8 (read only)"
>>
>> 1) Jannik provided a wordSize: method for setting... Does this work?
>> 2) In Interpreter>>  primitiveVMParameter, the comment reads "40 BytesPerWord for this image"
>>
>> I'd recon the VM comment is the correct one, and this is dependant on the image and not the VM, seeing as how it returns 4 for a 32bit image on the 64bit VM.
>> In which case, I definately feel wordSize semantically belongs to SmalltalkImage (and thus should be cached there rather than SystemDictionary) ;)
>>      
>
> We will have to have a really neat and clean namespace class instead of systemDictionary. argh too many todos
> so one by one....
>    

>>> :)
>> What would you be an extreme abstractor :)
>>
>> BTW henrik it is snowing at your place because here eveyrthing is white but not deep enough to have fun with it.
>>
> Not much snow here either, supposedly coming next week. Colder than I
> like though, -9C this morning :S
> BTW, I somehow ended up reading the Squeak mailing list from Dec. 2004
> yesterday, the correct quote for what I believe you allude to would be
> "Random reorganizer" ;)

>>>
> One step at a time...
> For all the people interested in learning in the Squeak community, it
> somewhat surprises me not one of them seems concerned of the experience
> for anyone above the age of 10.
> IE. If you're a student looking for an open-source implementation of
> Smalltalk to learn from and dive in all the way to the turtles, even if
> you made it past the UI of squeak, you'd still be running away screaming
> from the mess underneath, instead of admiring its structure and
> beautiful code...