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Mirko-2
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GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring

Mirko-2
Hi all,
I submitted a proposal for the GSoC project "GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring" and would greatly appreciate if some Mentors could review it.
GLORP and Magritte are both really exciting frameworks that can solve problems thousands of developers are hassling with. I believe that especially in web-applications there is a huge potential to make life easier for many developers if such frameworks would become more accessible and better promoted.
The project I want to work on aims at integrating Magritte which allows automatic generating of user interfaces with GLORP which is a great framework for storing your objects into a relational database. The plan is to integrate and separate the common parts of both and simplify the way you use both frameworks.
There is an interesting conversation on the ESUG mailing (starting at 2010-03-10) list that led to the idea of this project - especially the comments of Alan Knight and Niall Ross were quite insightful to me.
At the end of the project there will be an integrated and refactored codeset and a sample application demonstrating the ease of use of the integrated frameworks.
If we are then able to promote these frameworks in an adequate way combined with what we have with Seaside I see a great opportunity to attract more developers to the Smalltalk community.
Look at what led to the great popularity of a language like Ruby - it was not only the language itself, it was frameworks like Ruby on Rails which greatly simplified the development of web applications including straightforward mapping to a database. Well, I believe a combination of Seaside, GLORP and Magritte can make these tasks even easier. The problem is that these frameworks are hard to get into initially and that people only realize how great they are once they spent some time actually using them.
The project I want to work on is one step in reducing this barrier and I plan to continue it even after GSoC, especially in terms of writing tutorials and usage examples.
So hope you can afford a bit of time to review the project and give me feedback and advise.

Thanks,
Mirko_______________________________________________
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Mirko-2
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Re: GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring

Mirko-2
Of course the link to the project description would be useful ;)
http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/glorp%20&%20magritte%20integration/refactoring/proposal-a


On Apr 19, 2010, at 12:07 PM, Mirko Kiefer wrote:

> Hi all,
> I submitted a proposal for the GSoC project "GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring" and would greatly appreciate if some Mentors could review it.
> GLORP and Magritte are both really exciting frameworks that can solve problems thousands of developers are hassling with. I believe that especially in web-applications there is a huge potential to make life easier for many developers if such frameworks would become more accessible and better promoted.
> The project I want to work on aims at integrating Magritte which allows automatic generating of user interfaces with GLORP which is a great framework for storing your objects into a relational database. The plan is to integrate and separate the common parts of both and simplify the way you use both frameworks.
> There is an interesting conversation on the ESUG mailing (starting at 2010-03-10) list that led to the idea of this project - especially the comments of Alan Knight and Niall Ross were quite insightful to me.
> At the end of the project there will be an integrated and refactored codeset and a sample application demonstrating the ease of use of the integrated frameworks.
> If we are then able to promote these frameworks in an adequate way combined with what we have with Seaside I see a great opportunity to attract more developers to the Smalltalk community.
> Look at what led to the great popularity of a language like Ruby - it was not only the language itself, it was frameworks like Ruby on Rails which greatly simplified the development of web applications including straightforward mapping to a database. Well, I believe a combination of Seaside, GLORP and Magritte can make these tasks even easier. The problem is that these frameworks are hard to get into initially and that people only realize how great they are once they spent some time actually using them.
> The project I want to work on is one step in reducing this barrier and I plan to continue it even after GSoC, especially in terms of writing tutorials and usage examples.
> So hope you can afford a bit of time to review the project and give me feedback and advise.
>
> Thanks,
> Mirko_______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/listinfo/esug-list

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Graham McLeod
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Re: GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring

Graham McLeod
Hi All
I would support this as an important project. Mirko is certainly right when he points out how easy persistence made a huge difference in the adoption of Ruby.
Smalltalk can certainly compete with great libraries like Seaside, GLORP, Magritte and Glamour. What we need is to lower the barriers to entry to people new to the
Smalltalk world. This could also get Smalltalk back into academic curricula thus generating a new generation of happy Smalltalkers. In short, very important!
Best
Graham

Mirko Kiefer wrote: 
Of course the link to the project description would be useful ;)
http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/glorp%20&%20magritte%20integration/refactoring/proposal-a


On Apr 19, 2010, at 12:07 PM, Mirko Kiefer wrote:

  
Hi all,
I submitted a proposal for the GSoC project "GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring" and would greatly appreciate if some Mentors could review it.
GLORP and Magritte are both really exciting frameworks that can solve problems thousands of developers are hassling with. I believe that especially in web-applications there is a huge potential to make life easier for many developers if such frameworks would become more accessible and better promoted.
The project I want to work on aims at integrating Magritte which allows automatic generating of user interfaces with GLORP which is a great framework for storing your objects into a relational database. The plan is to integrate and separate the common parts of both and simplify the way you use both frameworks.
There is an interesting conversation on the ESUG mailing (starting at 2010-03-10) list that led to the idea of this project - especially the comments of Alan Knight and Niall Ross were quite insightful to me.
At the end of the project there will be an integrated and refactored codeset and a sample application demonstrating the ease of use of the integrated frameworks.
If we are then able to promote these frameworks in an adequate way combined with what we have with Seaside I see a great opportunity to attract more developers to the Smalltalk community.
Look at what led to the great popularity of a language like Ruby - it was not only the language itself, it was frameworks like Ruby on Rails which greatly simplified the development of web applications including straightforward mapping to a database. Well, I believe a combination of Seaside, GLORP and Magritte can make these tasks even easier. The problem is that these frameworks are hard to get into initially and that people only realize how great they are once they spent some time actually using them.
The project I want to work on is one step in reducing this barrier and I plan to continue it even after GSoC, especially in terms of writing tutorials and usage examples.
So hope you can afford a bit of time to review the project and give me feedback and advise.

Thanks,
Mirko_______________________________________________
Esug-list mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.esug.org/listinfo/esug-list
    

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Maarten Mostert-2
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Re: GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring

Maarten Mostert-2
In reply to this post by Mirko-2
Dear Mirko,
 
I really appreciate your project however to be honest and allthough my websites runs a Pier one click image, I never really understood what Margriite really is. As a very happy Glorp user (945 calls to glorpSession) I would however prefer that you don't change Glorp's API as might be your intention. I pretty much would prefer you to follow the official branch.
 
What I really would like to see however (but this is obviously another subject) is the Glorp documentation to be hosted on a Pier / Margritte image. This will give us way more possibilities to improve and help it's adoption.
 
@+Maarten,
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mirko Kiefer" <[hidden email]>
To: "ESUG Mailing list" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Esug-list] GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring


Of course the link to the project description would be useful ;)
http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/glorp%20&%20magritte%20integration/refactoring/proposal-a


On Apr 19, 2010, at 12:07 PM, Mirko Kiefer wrote:

> Hi all,
> I submitted a proposal for the GSoC project "GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring" and would greatly appreciate if some Mentors could review it.
> GLORP and Magritte are both really exciting frameworks that can solve problems thousands of developers are hassling with. I believe that especially in web-applications there is a huge potential to make life easier for many developers if such frameworks would become more accessible and better promoted.
> The project I want to work on aims at integrating Magritte which allows automatic generating of user interfaces with GLORP which is a great framework for storing your objects into a relational database. The plan is to integrate and separate the common parts of both and simplify the way you use both frameworks.
> There is an interesting conversation on the ESUG mailing (starting at 2010-03-10) list that led to the idea of this project - especially the comments of Alan Knight and Niall Ross were quite insightful to me.
> At the end of the project there will be an integrated and refactored codeset and a sample application demonstrating the ease of use of the integrated frameworks.
> If we are then able to promote these frameworks in an adequate way combined with what we have with Seaside I see a great opportunity to attract more developers to the Smalltalk community.
> Look at what led to the great popularity of a language like Ruby - it was not only the language itself, it was frameworks like Ruby on Rails which greatly simplified the development of web applications including straightforward mapping to a database. Well, I believe a combination of Seaside, GLORP and Magritte can make these tasks even easier. The problem is that these frameworks are hard to get into initially and that people only realize how great they are once they spent some time actually using them.
> The project I want to work on is one step in reducing this barrier and I plan to continue it even after GSoC, especially in terms of writing tutorials and usage examples.
> So hope you can afford a bit of time to review the project and give me feedback and advise.
>
> Thanks,
> Mirko_______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/listinfo/esug-list

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://lists.esug.org/listinfo/esug-list


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tallman@inbox.ru
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Re[2]: [Esug-list] GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring

tallman@inbox.ru
> I would however prefer that you don't change Glorp's API as might be your intention.

As Niall told some day before, nothing prevent from supporting current API via new methods, it's even some kind of additional test.
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Maarten Mostert-2
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Re: Re[2]: [Esug-list] GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring

Maarten Mostert-2
Yes of cours if it is done correctly many things can be extended. But in
that case it might be Margritte that will suffer from an important API
change.
Maybe they won' agree on that. Is it not to difficult to keep everybody
happy ?

@+Maarten,


----- Original Message -----
From: "Юрий Мироненко" <[hidden email]>
To: "ESUG Mailing list" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:26 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [Esug-list] GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring


>
>> I would however prefer that you don't change Glorp's API as might be your
>> intention.
>
> As Niall told some day before, nothing prevent from supporting current API
> via new methods, it's even some kind of additional test.
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/listinfo/esug-list
>
>



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Mirko-2
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Re: Re[2]: [Esug-list] GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring

Mirko-2
Hi Maarten,

thanks for your feedback! The existing API of GLORP or Magritte will still be available - the projects goal is to unify, simplify and extend the existing API's of both frameworks.
GLORP itself for example can benefit as well from this project as it has for example issues with its caching mechanism when running in large systems with more than 2 million instances.
But as mentioned in my first mail the greatest opportunity of this project is that by integrating GLORP with Magritte we can attract many new webdevelopers that look for a Rails-like solution but with even higher productivity and performance.
By only adding one type of meta-description to their classes they will be able to both persist objects in the database AND automatically create user interfaces. I don't think there are many platforms out there that have such a great potential so we should really work on making these frameworks much more accessible.

Mirko


On Apr 20, 2010, at 2:31 AM, Maarten MOSTERT wrote:

> Yes of cours if it is done correctly many things can be extended. But in that case it might be Margritte that will suffer from an important API change.
> Maybe they won' agree on that. Is it not to difficult to keep everybody happy ?
>
> @+Maarten,
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Юрий Мироненко" <[hidden email]>
> To: "ESUG Mailing list" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:26 AM
> Subject: Re[2]: [Esug-list] GLORP & Magritte integration/refactoring
>
>
>>
>>> I would however prefer that you don't change Glorp's API as might be your intention.
>>
>> As Niall told some day before, nothing prevent from supporting current API via new methods, it's even some kind of additional test.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Esug-list mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.esug.org/listinfo/esug-list
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/listinfo/esug-list

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