GT first impressions

Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:

- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.

- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.

- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.

- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.

- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.

- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. 

-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to)
-- They are like "too distant" from the code view.

Cheers,

Hernán

Hi Doru

2014-10-04 17:43 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>:

Hi Hernán,

Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)

One day I will write about what I like, I promise!

[...] 

- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.

This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.

In my case, because sometimes I do remote desktop over remote desktop over Windows and Linux, and protocols use to lost dead keys like Ctrl, Shift, etc.

- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.

What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:

 

I just typed

DateAndTime now asTime.

and "Print it" displays current date and time but get quickly refreshed. This happens only the first time, print it again didn't show any results at all. Let me know if you cannot reproduce, below is how I installed GT.

 

- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. 

-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to)
-- They are like "too distant" from the code view.

The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so?

I am trying in a fresh Pharo 3.0 image on Windows 8.1, and followed instructions in http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/installing-gtoolkit .BTW when the installation finish the image seems to automatically closes, but this is reported in other recent post.

Hi,

On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Doru

2014-10-04 17:43 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>:

Hi Hernán,

Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)

One day I will write about what I like, I promise!

Good :)

 

[...] 

- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.

This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.

In my case, because sometimes I do remote desktop over remote desktop over Windows and Linux, and protocols use to lost dead keys like Ctrl, Shift, etc.

Ok. That makes sense. Andrei added these actions in the latest development version. Loading again like you said below should provide you those actions.

 [...]

- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.

What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:

 

I just typed

DateAndTime now asTime.

and "Print it" displays current date and time but get quickly refreshed. This happens only the first time, print it again didn't show any results at all. Let me know if you cannot reproduce, below is how I installed GT.

I cannot reproduce it. Print it should popup the result and the popup should remain until you either press Esc or you change focus to something else.

It should look like this:

http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/rethinking-print-it-in-pharo/

 

 

- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. 

-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to)
-- They are like "too distant" from the code view.

The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so?

I am trying in a fresh Pharo 3.0 image on Windows 8.1, and followed instructions in http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/installing-gtoolkit .BTW when the installation finish the image seems to automatically closes, but this is reported in other recent post.

Indeed, the script should have mention "activateWithoutSaving" instead of "activate".

Cheers,

Doru

--

www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

On 4/10/14 22:43, Tudor Girba wrote:

Hi Hernán,

Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)

The rest of the reply is inline.

On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:

- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.

That is because it is still a work in progress.

 

- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.

This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.

Doru can you add sender and implementors
because I saw that newbies are really lost when the cannot know what they can do.

- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.

The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.

 

- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.

This is a feature that is already planned.

 

- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.

What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:

 

- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. 

-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to)
-- They are like "too distant" from the code view.

The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so?

In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.

putting a caption would be a great point.
why forcing people to learn icons. Icons should be there to help not to force learning.

Cheers,

Doru

 

Cheers,

Hernán

--

www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

On 05 Oct 2014, at 08:43, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 4/10/14 22:43, Tudor Girba wrote:

Hi Hernán,

Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)

The rest of the reply is inline.

On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:

- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.

That is because it is still a work in progress.

 

- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.

This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.

Doru can you add sender and implementors
because I saw that newbies are really lost when the cannot know what they can do.

and “browse”.

In fact… I want almost all the “extended search” back… please, please, please.

- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.

The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.

 

- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.

This is a feature that is already planned.

 

- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.

What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:

 

- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. 

-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to)
-- They are like "too distant" from the code view.

The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so?

In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.

putting a caption would be a great point.
why forcing people to learn icons. Icons should be there to help not to force learning.

I’m planning to make Doru hate me by replacing all those icons by “themable” icons and of course, using eclipse icons for all that actions ;)

Esteban

Cheers,

Doru

 

Cheers,

Hernán

--

www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

On 05 Oct 2014, at 09:55, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 05 Oct 2014, at 08:43, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 4/10/14 22:43, Tudor Girba wrote:

Hi Hernán,

Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)

The rest of the reply is inline.

On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:

- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.

That is because it is still a work in progress.

 

- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.

This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.

Doru can you add sender and implementors
because I saw that newbies are really lost when the cannot know what they can do.

and “browse”.

In fact… I want almost all the “extended search” back… please, please, please.

It's back. But, this time as a real submenu, not like the hack we had before in the Workspace (a menu was spawning another menu). Funny enough, nobody complained about that one. It's good to shake the tree :).

  

- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.

The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.

 

- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.

This is a feature that is already planned.

 

- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.

What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:

 

- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. 

-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to)
-- They are like "too distant" from the code view.

The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so?

In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.

putting a caption would be a great point.
why forcing people to learn icons. Icons should be there to help not to force learning.

I’m planning to make Doru hate me by replacing all those icons by “themable” icons and of course, using eclipse icons for all that actions ;)

All the visual aspects from GT and Glamour should get themeable (not all of them are at this point). I will certainly not complain if you help there :).

As for the icons, I think Pharo deserves a Pharo look, not an Eclipse one. So, you can certainly use the Eclipse icons, but I will try to propose a complete set of Pharo icons.

of course, is better if we have our own. 

problem is that a complete set is hard to do, with the appropriate quality, etc. 

If you do it, I will be super happy (with Nico we started a set of icons both for Pharo  and Amber… and my contribution there was just to ask Nico “is there something new today”, because I frankly suck at design :P)

Esteban

Cheers,

Doru

 

Esteban

Cheers,

Doru

 

Cheers,

Hernán

-- 

www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

-- 

www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"