GUI developpment

Hello,

I am currently looking for a framework to develop a GUI application.
I would like to know if it exists a framework most powerfull than the
canvas one which is included in visual works by default.
I heard about Widgetry and Pollock. What's the difference between both ?
Is there a tutorial anywhere ?

Thanks

Sylvain

At 05:50 PM 5/10/2007, Sylvain Pralon wrote:
>I would like to know if it exists a framework most powerfull than
>the canvas one which is included in visual works by default.

What do you mean by "more powerful"? What, specifically, are you trying to do?

Thanks,

M

In fact I want a more "sexy" interface with some cool objects.
I found that the default canvas API looks "oldy"
thanks,

sylvain

Mark Roberts a écrit :

Hi, Sylvain,

Widgetry is only the new name (and last :-) ?) for Pollock.

You also can use the  Hotdraw framework or Cairo integration (there  
is a Smalltalk daily Screencast from James Robertson http://
www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/cincom/blogView?
content=smalltalk_daily ). And for 3D you can use Jun (based on  
OpenGL), which can be found in the Goodies of the VW distribution.

Regards

Hans

Am 10.05.2007 um 10:50 schrieb Sylvain Pralon:

forgott the link to Jun: http://www.sra.co.jp/people/aoki/Jun/Main_e.htm


-- Hans

Am 10.05.2007 um 11:14 schrieb Hans N Beck:

Thanks,
I think I will use widgetry.
Do you know if a kind of tutorial exists ? There are no examples in the
parcel widgetry.
Is there any editor to build interfaces like the canvas editor.

Thanks

Sylvain



Hans N Beck a écrit :

Hi,

Sam Shuster has a blog, where he explain usage of widgetry. See  
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/pollock/blogView

Regards


Hans

Am 10.05.2007 um 15:17 schrieb Sylvain Pralon:

There's no GUI builder yet.  I'd suggest taking a look at Sam Shuster's Blog:

http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/pollock/blogView

for some examples and tips


At 09:17 AM 5/10/2007, you wrote:
<Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library>
James Robertson, Product Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView

I added a post on my blog describing Widgetry:
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/runarj/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=Widgetry_-_the_new_GUI_Framework_for_VisualWorks&entry=3356243853

Runar

Sylvain Pralon wrote:
> In fact I want a more "sexy" interface with some cool objects.
> I found that the default canvas API looks "oldy"

Hi Sylvain,

the importance of looking "sexy" and contemporary for commercial
products is way underestimated by most smalltalkers (my impression, no
offense). Same for GUI performance and platform integration.

Potential users are likely to abandon a product from the beginning, if
their first impression suggests a dated technology. Getting to know the
inner qualities and full functionality of a software takes time and
effort. People are more motivated to invest into this learning curve, if
they feel they're investing into an up-to-date technology.

Although I sometimes got the impression people just ask for the latest
buzzwords to feel superior ("I am king customer and I want X. You don't
have X? You lose! But I am cool, because I am asking for X and X is hot.").

Anyway, as potential customers first judge a product from its surface
(which is true for all markets and all sorts of products), I wish there
was more effort put into making the great VW virtual machine (second to
none) keep up with current UI standards. Sex sells!

In order to cope with the "oldy" look you mentioned and the lack of
native widgets, I ended up writing my own Look & Feel "Chimera" that
looks good on both Windows and MacOS X (didn't test on other platforms).
The look is minimalistic and designed in shades of silver. It works with
Wrapper and contains various performance improvements (resizing
splitters, subcanvases, tabs controls, menus, etc). If there is
sufficient interest in using this look, I'm willing to publish it to the
public repository. Let me know.

Andre

Hi,

+1

especially in age of XAML, Silverlight and  Flex/Apollo where the  
GUIs are more  and more a domain of designers and the classical GUI  
style is fading away,  it is important  to have a good "dress".

Regards

Hans

Am 10.05.2007 um 17:47 schrieb Andre Schnoor:

I think that what sylvaain wants to stress is that he is looking for  
a look that is not outdated.
And this is a reality I hope that Widgetry will solve that.

Stef
On 10 mai 07, at 16:01, Runar Jordahl wrote:

> I added a post on my blog describing Widgetry:
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/runarj/blogView?
> showComments=true&printTitle=Widgetry_-
> _the_new_GUI_Framework_for_VisualWorks&entry=3356243853
>
> Runar
>

On Thu, 10 May 2007 17:47:43 +0200
Andre Schnoor <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In order to cope with the "oldy" look you mentioned and the lack of
> native widgets, I ended up writing my own Look & Feel "Chimera" that
> looks good on both Windows and MacOS X (didn't test on other
> platforms). The look is minimalistic and designed in shades of
> silver. It works with Wrapper and contains various performance
> improvements (resizing splitters, subcanvases, tabs controls, menus,
> etc). If there is sufficient interest in using this look, I'm willing
> to publish it to the public repository. Let me know.
>

I'd like to see it, too. I could even squeeze some time out of my
schedule to try in on linux ...

s.

--
Stefan Schmiedl
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> Anyway, as potential customers first judge a product from its surface
> (which is true for all markets and all sorts of products), I wish
> there was more effort put into making the great VW virtual machine
> (second to none) keep up with current UI standards. Sex sells!
>
I'm painful aware of this :) This is high on my list of conscious
directions. I've personally seen many people decide not to use Smalltalk
because of exactly this.

Cheers,
Michael

I have been following this thread -- maybe (not maybe!) I am behind the times, but the windows stuff I work with
(outside of ST) doesn't look all that much different from ST.  Can someone point me at something that
is really sexy so I have an idea with is being asked for?

Travis Griggs wrote:

On May 10, 2007, at 2:08, Sylvain Pralon wrote:

In fact I want a more "sexy" interface with some cool objects.

I found that the default canvas API looks "oldy"

thanks,

If  by "sexy" you mean appearance things like transforms, gradients, alpha painting modes, compositing, it doesn't really matter whether you use Widgetry or Wrapper. They're both based on the same drawing technology. In either technology your widget enters a displayOn: point with aGraphicsContext.

One way, would be to use the Cairo stuff to be able to do those kinds of sexy things. The "easy" way to do this, is something like:

displayOn: aGC

cr := aGC cairoContext.

"do cairo drawing stuff"

You can choose to do this using either VisualComponent objects (Wrapper) or Artist objects (Widgetry).

If by sexy you mean "moving things", then there are two pieces of code that may be of interest to you. One is the Animations package published in the OR by Michael Lucas-Smith, which is cool for doing fixed duration animations and is also Wrapper/Widgetry agnostic. For doing long running continuous Animating (i.e. open ended duration), you can use ExtraActivity which IS Wrapper specific, but could probably be made to work readily with Widgetry by changing a couple of methods and targets. The way events flow down is similar but different I believe.

And maybe what you want is both. You can use either/or. They don't conflict with each other.

--

Travis Griggs

Objologist

"It's [a spec] _the_ single worst way to write software, because it by definition means that the software was written to match theory, not reality" - Linus Torvalds

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Thank you.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Smith [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:39 AM
> To: VWNC,
> Subject: Re: GUI developpment
>
> I have been following this thread -- maybe (not maybe!) I am behind
the
> times, but the windows stuff I work with
> (outside of ST) doesn't look all that much different from ST.  Can
someone
> point me at something that
> is really sexy so I have an idea with is being asked for?
>
> Travis Griggs wrote:
>
> On May 10, 2007, at 2:08, Sylvain Pralon wrote:
>
>
> In fact I want a more "sexy" interface with some cool
objects.
> I found that the default canvas API looks "oldy"
> thanks,
>
>
> If  by "sexy" you mean appearance things like transforms,
gradients,
> alpha painting modes, compositing, it doesn't really matter whether
you of
> code that may be of interest to you. One is the Animations package
> published in the OR by Michael Lucas-Smith, which is cool for doing
fixed
> duration animations and is also Wrapper/Widgetry agnostic. For doing
long
> running continuous Animating (i.e. open ended duration), you can use
> ExtraActivity which IS Wrapper specific, but could probably be made to
> work readily with Widgetry by changing a couple of methods and
targets.
> The way events flow down is similar but different I believe.
>
> And maybe what you want is both. You can use either/or. They
don't
> conflict with each other.
>
>
> --
> Travis Griggs
> Objologist
> "It's [a spec] _the_ single worst way to write software, because
it

On Thu, 10 May 2007 10:51:12 -0700
"Boris Popov" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> http://tinyurl.com/34j5ja
> http://tinyurl.com/3yemc8
> http://tinyurl.com/2ngjo8

De gustibus non est disputandum ... but I find these GUIs ugly and
unuseable. *Everything* is colored, so *nothing* is emphasized.

What I'd really like to see is a GUI designed like a Japanese ink
drawing ... a perfectly balanced blend of foreground and background
with a few shades of gray. Providing feedback and guidance for the user
would be so much easier there.

But maybe I'm just getting old :-)
s.

What you really mean, of course, is that we need a way to create these
styles ourselves with help from professional designers easily. I don't
know how friendly Widgetry "look" policy implementation is, but creating
new ones in Wrapper sucked bad last I looked at it,

Cheers!

-Boris

--
+1.604.689.0322
DeepCove Labs Ltd.
4th floor 595 Howe Street
Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5
http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4

[hidden email]

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header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is
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Thank you.
user
> would be so much easier there.
>
> But maybe I'm just getting old :-)
> s.