Gemstone Seaside Applications?

Does anyone know where one can find Gemstone/Seaside based applications?

Thanks
Friedrich



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Yes
On the internet :-)
We have built some at FinWorks (www.finworks.biz)
https://groupra.allangray.co.za and https://online.tourismatwork.net
are GS/Seaside apps.

Cheers
Otto

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Friedrich Dominicus
<[hidden email]> wrote:

Otto Behrens <[hidden email]> writes:

> Yes
> On the internet :-)
> We have built some at FinWorks (www.finworks.biz)
> https://groupra.allangray.co.za and https://online.tourismatwork.net
> are GS/Seaside apps.
Thank, however they are not downloadable or am I missing something?

A somewhat related question.
Does anyone have experiences with using Gemstone/Seaside as
- Bug report system (e.g like Redmine)
- Accounting
- extended todo list
- anything else?

Regards
Friedrich

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Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim
Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus

>> https://groupra.allangray.co.za and https://online.tourismatwork.net
>> are GS/Seaside apps.
> Thank, however they are not downloadable or am I missing something?

No they're not. They are very specific apps for a specific customer.

Cheers
Otto

Otto Behrens <[hidden email]> writes:

>>> https://groupra.allangray.co.za and https://online.tourismatwork.net
>>> are GS/Seaside apps.
>> Thank, however they are not downloadable or am I missing something?
>
> No they're not. They are very specific apps for a specific customer.
Ok I got that, are there any public accessible and downloadable
Applications available?

Regards
Friedrich

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Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim
Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus

> Ok I got that, are there any public accessible and downloadable
> Applications available?

http://www.piercms.com should run on GemStone

We are using Gemstone/Seaside for a really large Servicedesk application.

Some key features

- SUN Cluster System
- Integrated Workflowsystem
- Incident/Ticketing System
- SLA Management
- Workorder Management
- Graphical Dispatchmanagement
- Time management
- Live Reporting ( Dashboards ,.. )
- Offline Reporting (SQL Database )
- SOAP Interfaces to other systems
- Alarm Monitoring ( SNMP,.. )
- Integrated Inventory System
..


Cheers
Gerhard

Gerhard Obermann <[hidden email]> writes:
Oh, that sounds as if it would be really large. However neither part
will be "accessible" to the public, or am I wrong about that?

Regards
Friedrich



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Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim
Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus

Yes its only accessible for my company and some 3 parties.
But it is also a multi tenant system, which is hosted by ourself.

At the moment we dont have any intention to make it public.

Gerhard

I assume you are looking for open source ones. There aren't really any
out there.

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Friedrich Dominicus
<[hidden email]> wrote:

Friedrich Dominicus wrote:
> Does anyone know where one can find Gemstone/Seaside based applications?
>
> Thanks
> Friedrich
>
>
>
Friedrich,

If you look at the projects on GemSource
(http://seaside.gemstone.com/ss) you'll see a number of projects that
have been explicitly ported to GemStone.

If you look in the MetacelloRepository on GemSource
(http://seaside.gemstone.com/ss/MetacelloRepository.html) you'll see
Metacello configurations for loading a number of said projects ... I
have not created configs for _all_ of the GemSource projects (yet)...

In general, Seaside applications written to run against Seaside on
Squeak or Pharo can be expected to run on GemStone with little or not
effort (there _are_ exceptions:).

Pier and Magritte have been running on GemStone for a long time.

I am very close to announcing the availablity of
Seaside3.0/Magritte2/Pier2 on GemStone ...

For the most part folks use Seaside and GemStone as a basis for building
their own custom applications.

Dale

Sean Allen <[hidden email]> writes:

> I assume you are looking for open source ones. There aren't really any
> out there.
No completly, if one knows software from this area for selling this
would be an option. But I really would like to see how Gemstone is used
in the context of the software. I for my part have looked into OODB
starting nearly 15 years or so ago. And IMHO the whole OR mappings just
do not support inheritance etc really good. I guess more of you have
"fought" with OR Mappers and RDBs. And I bet many of your do use
Gemstone for a good reason. I assume very much that your Objects in an
OR mapping environment just are let's say it frankly.
Glorified "Arrays". The key is the name of the element and the value is
whatever you put there.

I would be very suprised to see even simple inheritance pattern
implemented. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Just a simple thing like let's day like inheritance levels > 2, will
probably be hard to find.

IMHO there will always be a clash between objects and
"relations". Unfortunatly the "relation" based languages are very
rare. There might be some "extensions" to more used languages. Anyway
this would be another question. Do you know if of any "relation" based
languages in a large scale use?

Anyway I hope a few of you will share a few things, which has lead you
to use Gemstone....

Regards
Friedrich



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Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim
Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus

I think most people who are using GemStone for serious applications
take full advantage of inheritance and complex types for attributes.
This does lead to compatibility issues with relational interfaces, but
the complexity of the applications that can be supported is quite hard
to beat.

I'm not sure what you're looking for, but I would love to see some
open-source CMS for Seaside and GemStone. Something along the lines of
web2py (which has a great tutorial btw) would be fantastic.

I think it would be really helpful to raise the level of abstraction a
bit with Seaside. People don't want to have to write code to set up
user accounts and manage the login stuff. A lot of the tutorials could
be integrated with the basic system, but it would also be good to have
some web tools to help separate the MVC layers and deal with style
sheets.

There's been some great work done lately, but more can be done. If you
have any specific ideas about a project you want to start, please feel
free to ask for pointers. I'm sure there are a lot of knowledgable
lurkers who would be more than happy to help you out.

Cheers
Steve

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Friedrich Dominicus
<[hidden email]> wrote:

Steve Wart <[hidden email]> writes:

> I think most people who are using GemStone for serious applications
> take full advantage of inheritance and complex types for attributes.
> This does lead to compatibility issues with relational interfaces, but
> the complexity of the applications that can be supported is quite hard
> to beat.
>
> I'm not sure what you're looking for, but I would love to see some
> open-source CMS for Seaside and GemStone.
sorry AFAIKT Pier does run on Seaside and Gemstone. I can't tell how
"good" it is but it was mentioned here as one "larger" application.

What I'm looking for is larger let's say useful applications, which one
can just "use". Just see e.g Redmine which is really a larger
application you can use to have all the development stuff in one area. I
know Smalltalks would use something else buut CVS, SVN, Mercurial, Git
etc, but AFAIKT there is nothing comparable large implemented in
Gemstone, (which is "accessible to the public"). IMHO the 4 GB "barrier"
can't be a hindrance really. If I look up all my received Mails (with
attachements) those are "only" 2GB and this is for mails for now more
than 12 years. I've a lot of customers which work since ages below a 1
GB barrier and they make all there book-keeping with that software.







>
> I think it would be really helpful to raise the level of abstraction a
> bit with Seaside. People don't want to have to write code to set up
> user accounts and manage the login stuff.
Exactly one "plugin" for user rights management. AFAIKT there is
something for Gemstone, which probably could be more fine grained for
other kinds of "applicatons".

Then we'd have a todo-list, which probably should have an option for
time-tracking also. I currently have an Access based application, whith
double entry book-keeping. I just found one "web-ified" example in
Smalltalk in that area (which is accessible to the wider public). But it
does use an ORM layer. which in the ends turns Smalltalks objects in not
much more than "extended" Arrays. However I've still have to save this
stuff myself and at the right time.

I'd like to break that monolithic Access program into modules which all
can communicate to the outside via a very simple Web Service interface
(maybe even
just in the form of, sending JSON data structures "around" or maybe just
http posts, I still don't know really.)

Anyway this is "my end goal", but my current area of knowledge about
larger Seaside Applications is non existent, and so I'd just like to
look at larger "useful" applications.

Regards
Friedrich


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Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim
Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus

Friedrich,

I'm not sure why Pier doesn't fall under your definition of useful,
but that isn't really important.
The Seaside community is small. The GLASS community is smaller. No one is really
working on open source applications for either. Most are working on
propriety systems for either
clients or for ourselves. You might find an open source example here
or there but if Pier isn't 'useful',
I'm not sure you would find any of the others 'useful'.

Sean

Sean Allen <[hidden email]> writes:

> Friedrich,
>
> I'm not sure why Pier doesn't fall under your definition of useful,
> but that isn't really important.
Where did I wrote that Pier isn't useful?

I asked for other larger applictions I wrote I'd appreciate if I could
download them, but would be as happy to learn about commercial offers in
that area.


> working on open source applications for either. Most are working on
> propriety systems for either
> clients or for ourselves.
I see but is it not allowed to ask for things here.

>You might find an open source example here
> or there but if Pier isn't 'useful',
> I'm not sure you would find any of the others 'useful'.

Sorry you got me wrong, for me Pier wouldn't be that useful. And I'd
more interested in more account oriented packages and I just asked if
anyone knows some of them.

Regards
Friedrich

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Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim
Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus

Not sure what you mean by account oriented but extended Pier user account functionality for my application. Then again a large part of my application is about providing help and un context documentation so it uses a lot of Pier functionality.

I don't know if it is up to date or if it works on gemstone but i remember learning a lot from looking at the code of Gjallar. Its a fairly large bug/ticket tracking application that was available on squeaksource.

yl

Le 2010-07-11 à 12:37, Friedrich Dominicus <[hidden email]> a écrit :