General search input exposed | feature request

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General search input exposed | feature request

sebastianconcept
Today in a casual chat on the IRC it was validated again this idea of the general search input being exposed in Helios somehow

It’s just too important to keep it buried somwhere under the magik keystrokes and/or menus

Can we have it?

Maybe we can borrow some real state from the tabs bar at the right? and access its focus with cmd-f or something like that?

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Re: General search input exposed | feature request

Hannes Hirzel
I'd say a higher priority is to have SUnit working in Helios

    https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber/issues/949

In the meantime

       ctrl + space, then f.

Everything is done by ctrl + space first. The IDE clearly indicates
this. There are not many commands.

--Hannes

On 4/12/14, sebastian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Today in a casual chat on the IRC it was validated again this idea of the
> general search input being exposed in Helios somehow
>
> It's just too important to keep it buried somwhere under the magik
> keystrokes and/or menus
>
> Can we have it?
>
> Maybe we can borrow some real state from the tabs bar at the right? and
> access its focus with cmd-f or something like that?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "amber-lang" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [hidden email].
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Re: General search input exposed | feature request

philippeback
Also try Benchfib main and you'll see the console failing...

Phil


On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 11:45 PM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'd say a higher priority is to have SUnit working in Helios

    https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber/issues/949

In the meantime

       ctrl + space, then f.

Everything is done by ctrl + space first. The IDE clearly indicates
this. There are not many commands.

--Hannes

On 4/12/14, sebastian <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Today in a casual chat on the IRC it was validated again this idea of the
> general search input being exposed in Helios somehow
>
> It's just too important to keep it buried somwhere under the magik
> keystrokes and/or menus
>
> Can we have it?
>
> Maybe we can borrow some real state from the tabs bar at the right? and
> access its focus with cmd-f or something like that?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "amber-lang" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [hidden email].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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Re: General search input exposed | feature request

Hannes Hirzel
I have filed an issue

Benchfib main fails
https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber/issues/951

--Hannes

On 4/12/14, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Also try Benchfib main and you'll see the console failing...
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 11:45 PM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I'd say a higher priority is to have SUnit working in Helios
>>
>>     https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber/issues/949
>>
>> In the meantime
>>
>>        ctrl + space, then f.
>>
>> Everything is done by ctrl + space first. The IDE clearly indicates
>> this. There are not many commands.
>>
>> --Hannes
>>
>> On 4/12/14, sebastian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Today in a casual chat on the IRC it was validated again this idea of
>> > the
>> > general search input being exposed in Helios somehow
>> >
>> > It's just too important to keep it buried somwhere under the magik
>> > keystrokes and/or menus
>> >
>> > Can we have it?
>> >
>> > Maybe we can borrow some real state from the tabs bar at the right? and
>> > access its focus with cmd-f or something like that?
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups
>> > "amber-lang" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> > an
>> > email to [hidden email].
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >
>>
>> --
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>
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Re: General search input exposed | feature request

Nicolas Petton
In reply to this post by sebastianconcept
Hi Sebastian,

You can add an issue on github for that. It's not very high on my
priorities though. Work on Helios will indeed be focused on SUnit, Help,
and the debugger.

Cheers,
Nico


sebastian writes:

> Today in a casual chat on the IRC it was validated again this idea of the general search input being exposed in Helios somehow
>
> It's just too important to keep it buried somwhere under the magik keystrokes and/or menus
>
> Can we have it?
>
> Maybe we can borrow some real state from the tabs bar at the right? and access its focus with cmd-f or something like that?


--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

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Re: General search input exposed | feature request

Hannes Hirzel
On 4/14/14, Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Sebastian,
>
> You can add an issue on github for that. It's not very high on my
> priorities though. Work on Helios will indeed be focused on

SUnit, Help,

Yes, in particular the Helios  'SUnit' and 'Help' button should give
some feedback
as 'not implemented yet, use old IDE'.
I put this down as
https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber/issues/949

--Hannes

> and the debugger.
>
> Cheers,
> Nico
>
>
> sebastian writes:
>
>> Today in a casual chat on the IRC it was validated again this idea of the
>> general search input being exposed in Helios somehow
>>
>> It's just too important to keep it buried somwhere under the magik
>> keystrokes and/or menus
>>
>> Can we have it?
>>
>> Maybe we can borrow some real state from the tabs bar at the right? and
>> access its focus with cmd-f or something like that?
>
>
> --
> Nicolas Petton
> http://nicolas-petton.fr
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "amber-lang" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [hidden email].
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>

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Re: General search input exposed | feature request

sebastianconcept
In reply to this post by Nicolas Petton
Sounds great.

Phil made a demo that is gold to show some UI problems but hopefully all easy to deal with

I'm happy to hear that we're open to suggestions to improve Helios' usability

sebastian

o/

> On 14/04/2014, at 06:29, Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Sebastian,
>
> You can add an issue on github for that. It's not very high on my
> priorities though. Work on Helios will indeed be focused on SUnit, Help,
> and the debugger.
>
> Cheers,
> Nico
>
>
> sebastian writes:
>
>> Today in a casual chat on the IRC it was validated again this idea of the general search input being exposed in Helios somehow
>>
>> It's just too important to keep it buried somwhere under the magik keystrokes and/or menus
>>
>> Can we have it?
>>
>> Maybe we can borrow some real state from the tabs bar at the right? and access its focus with cmd-f or something like that?
>
>
> --
> Nicolas Petton
> http://nicolas-petton.fr
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
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Re: General search input exposed | feature request

Hannes Hirzel
Nicolas commented out the SUnit and Help buttons just one hour ago

https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber/issues/949  CLOSED

I filed another issue

Benchfib main fails
https://github.com/amber-smalltalk/amber/issues/951

Are there other issues in Phil's presentation?

--Hannes

On 4/14/14, sebastian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sounds great.
>
> Phil made a demo that is gold to show some UI problems but hopefully all
> easy to deal with
>
> I'm happy to hear that we're open to suggestions to improve Helios'
> usability
>
> sebastian
>
> o/
>
>> On 14/04/2014, at 06:29, Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sebastian,
>>
>> You can add an issue on github for that. It's not very high on my
>> priorities though. Work on Helios will indeed be focused on SUnit, Help,
>> and the debugger.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nico
>>
>>
>> sebastian writes:
>>
>>> Today in a casual chat on the IRC it was validated again this idea of the
>>> general search input being exposed in Helios somehow
>>>
>>> It's just too important to keep it buried somwhere under the magik
>>> keystrokes and/or menus
>>>
>>> Can we have it?
>>>
>>> Maybe we can borrow some real state from the tabs bar at the right? and
>>> access its focus with cmd-f or something like that?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nicolas Petton
>> http://nicolas-petton.fr
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "amber-lang" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to [hidden email].
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "amber-lang" group.
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Re: General search input exposed | feature request

Nicolas Petton
In reply to this post by sebastianconcept

sebastian writes:

> I'm happy to hear that we're open to suggestions to improve Helios'
> usability

Of course :)

Nico

>
> sebastian
>
> o/
>
>> On 14/04/2014, at 06:29, Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sebastian,
>>
>> You can add an issue on github for that. It's not very high on my
>> priorities though. Work on Helios will indeed be focused on SUnit, Help,
>> and the debugger.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nico
>>
>>
>> sebastian writes:
>>
>>> Today in a casual chat on the IRC it was validated again this idea of the general search input being exposed in Helios somehow
>>>
>>> It's just too important to keep it buried somwhere under the magik keystrokes and/or menus
>>>
>>> Can we have it?
>>>
>>> Maybe we can borrow some real state from the tabs bar at the right? and access its focus with cmd-f or something like that?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nicolas Petton
>> http://nicolas-petton.fr
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

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Re: General search input exposed | feature request

sebastianconcept
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel

On Apr 14, 2014, at 9:26 AM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:


Are there other issues in Phil's presentation?

yes many but we:

1. should not try to catch all at once
2. not panic
3. not negate them :D
4. not neglect them :)
5. accept them and
6. select what’s best for the project to deal with first with the resources we have

Deep breath….  :)

Here is some of what I think would be smart on our part:

1. yes, SUnit comes first so the IDE reaches conceptual completeness <- that’s great for morale and historic for Helios 
2. Being sure that users who hate vi aren not disregarded by Helios, on the contrary, Helios delivers love for them too
3. The basic smalltalk workflow* should be navigable and do a better job in removing barriers on the creativity flow. Ideally in one keystroke for each step (I should elaborate on this with an usability review, video or a hangout would be better for this and email sucks for explaining this... in this stage at least)

Doing my best here:

*basic smalltalk workflow: 
inspect in one keystroke
select a class name wherever and browse in one keystroke
select a word and find implementors, senders, symbols and strings in one keystroke
debug in one keystroke
from the debugger jump to any of the previous actions in one keystroke
same from an inspector

What if we need one extra keystroke? I know it sounds like is not a big deal, but in usability terms, in the cognitive load for the user in creative flow is like the difference between free and making email or facebook cost only 1$ per post. Whole different story.  We want to remove barriers to create things with Amber so we want to remove those barriers. Let’s find them and then talk how we deal with them. If we make Amber pre-cognitive, we’ll increase the chances of touching hearts. If we do that, things are limitless



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