Getting scriptaculous to work

Howdy,

I've been looking at http://scriptaculous.seasidehosting.st/  I've  
tried to copy and paste the example code into my Seaside app, but  
methods like html nextId seem to be missing.  I'm running Seaside  
2.5.  I didn't see any SqueakMap projects for Scriptaculous.  Can  
someone point me to what I need to do/install to make the  
Sciptaculous stuff work?

Thanks,

David


_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

You need to be running the latest Seaside to run the latest Scriptaculous.
Load 2.6b1

_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

Thanks!

On Aug 22, 2006, at 8:31 AM, Ramon Leon wrote:


_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

Hi

You can get the latest Seaside and Scriptculous via Monticell/SqueakSource:
http://www.squeaksource.com/Seaside.html

Philippe

2006/8/22, David Pollak <[hidden email]>: _______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

I'm new to Squeak and Seaside.  There seem to be a number of Squeak  
code repositories (SqueakMap SqueakSource and random images that  
people put up on their own.)  Can someone help me understand the  
differences and advantages/disadvantages to each?

On a semi-related note, was there a reason to choose the 3.7 rather  
than the 3.8 image for Seaside 2.6?

On Aug 22, 2006, at 2:23 PM, Philippe Marschall wrote:


_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> On a semi-related note, was there a reason to choose the 3.7 rather
> than the 3.8 image for Seaside 2.6?

Seaside works on anything from 3.7 to 3.9. It has to because there are
still important applications running on 3.7.

As for <= 3.6 I don't know if this works. Maybe, maybe not.

Philippe
_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> I'm new to Squeak and Seaside.  There seem to be a number of
> Squeak code repositories (SqueakMap SqueakSource and random
> images that people put up on their own.)  Can someone help me
> understand the differences and advantages/disadvantages to each?
>
> On a semi-related note, was there a reason to choose the 3.7
> rather than the 3.8 image for Seaside 2.6?

3.7 also supports WriteBarrier which speeds up object databases, if that's
important to you.

_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

Squeaksource = sourceforge for Monticello packages (mc)
I strongly suggest to use Monticello
Watch my videos on how to create a package at
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/Videos/

SqueakMap = catalog to deploy code (mc, sar = zip squeak files,  
projects = etoy packages....)

Stef

On 23 août 06, at 18:50, David Pollak wrote:

_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

On Aug 23, 2006, at 9:50 AM, David Pollak wrote:

> I'm new to Squeak and Seaside.  There seem to be a number of Squeak  
> code repositories (SqueakMap SqueakSource and random images that  
> people put up on their own.)  Can someone help me understand the  
> differences and advantages/disadvantages to each?
>
> On a semi-related note, was there a reason to choose the 3.7 rather  
> than the 3.8 image for Seaside 2.6?

That image derives from the image shrinking work that Pavel Krivanek  
and Steve Swerling did, which had been 3.7 based.  We use it to get a  
relatively small base image to use for Dabble DB (this matters: our  
servers have thousands of images lying around and they add up).

3.7 is also the last version before the switch to WideString. On  
balance, I'm not convinced that change was useful in a web context:  
it doesn't usually matter much whether or not Squeak is using the  
right encoding internally, as long as the bytes go back and forth  
unharmed between Squeak and the web browser - and converting back and  
forth between UTF8 and WideString all the time is a measurable  
performance hit.  That might be a North American, anglo-centric bias,  
however.

Avi

_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

Avi,

On Aug 23, 2006, at 5:02 PM, Avi Bryant wrote:

So does each DabbleDB account have its own image?  If so, how do you  
fire up an image when I come to to foo.dabbledb.com?  How do you know  
to save the image?  Have you or anyone else written about deploying a  
large-scale web app farm with Squeak?

> 3.7 is also the last version before the switch to WideString. On  
> balance, I'm not convinced that change was useful in a web context:  
> it doesn't usually matter much whether or not Squeak is using the  
> right encoding internally, as long as the bytes go back and forth  
> unharmed between Squeak and the web browser - and converting back  
> and forth between UTF8 and WideString all the time is a measurable  
> performance hit.  That might be a North American, anglo-centric  
> bias, however.

I've spent about a year in Ruby/Rails.  One of the things that's  
caused me to pop my head up and look for another environment is  
Ruby's very weak support for non-ASCII characters.  Having 16 bit  
characters is a real win.  Granted, prior to Ruby, I lived in Java-
land and there's much less of a performance concern as JVM + JIT ->  
reasonable fast.

My 2 cents.

Thanks,

David




_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

On Aug 23, 2006, at 10:15 PM, David Pollak wrote:
>
> So does each DabbleDB account have its own image?

Each active account does, yes - if an account hasn't been used for a  
while we ditch its image to save disk space, saving only a compact  
representation of the data, which can be brought into a new image as  
needed.

>   If so, how do you fire up an image when I come to to  
> foo.dabbledb.com?

There's a set of apache mod_rewrite rules and supporting Ruby scripts  
that take care of this.  Roughly speaking, each image has a dedicated  
internal port.  If that port is open, the request gets proxied  
directly to it by mod_proxy.  Otherwise, the request falls back to a  
Ruby CGI script which caches the request, fires up the image, waits  
for it to start listening on the port, and then acts as a (slow)  
proxy itself for that first request.

>   How do you know to save the image?

That gets a bit complicated, but one thing we do is save and quit if  
the session is idle for more than a couple of minutes.  This keeps  
the number of concurrent VMs very low.

>   Have you or anyone else written about deploying a large-scale web  
> app farm with Squeak?

Lukas may have written somewhere about seasidehosting.st...

Avi


_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> Lukas may have written somewhere about seasidehosting.st...

We got some of the ideas from Avi, but we have a slightly different
setup: since we don't have control about the images we cannot execute
code in-there and we cannot quit the image itself. We are using
mod_rewrite (those that read this list frequently know that I like and
use mod_rewrite a lot) to do the virtual hosting and dispatching to
the right image. It works like this:

1. Whenever a request is coming in mod_rewrite remembers the current
time-stamp for the image accessed.

2. Next mod_rewrite resumes the vm process of the image in question.

3. Then it forwards the request to the port the image is listening on.

4. A background job checks every few minutes if there are images
running that haven't received requests lately and suspends then.

Currently there are about 200 Squeak VMs running concurrently, most of
them asleep as they are not receiving any requests all the time.
Suspending the VM avoids to have garbage-collection going on all the
time and allows the operating system to swap them out.

To give you an idea about the load I copied the top of the output of top:

top - 09:59:55 up 210 days, 21:44,  1 user,  load average: 1.34, 1.27, 0.87
Tasks: 431 total,   2 running, 266 sleeping, 162 stopped,   0 zombie
Cpu(s):  1.0% us,  4.4% sy, 25.8% ni, 68.7% id,  0.2% wa,  0.0% hi,  0.0% si
Mem:   4025952k total,  4012388k used,    13564k free,   130336k buffers
Swap:  2650684k total,        0k used,  2650684k free,  1322552k cached

So our solution is mod_rewrite only, no ruby ;-)

Cheers,
Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

hi all

I can tell you that I'm bad in web app dev but I really enjoy reading  
this list.
Why? Because it gives me a lot of pressure to get Squeak a cool  
environment so that
you can run your business. So be sure that we always have the  
responsibility in mind
when we are trying to improve the system.

I think that as a community you could also help the squeakish one  
make priority
on the next fix (of course helping would be even nicer and we already  
use MC, and others
cool tools that avi and colin developed and integrated a lot of fixes  
of lukas and other seasiders).

Stef


_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

Lukas & Avi,
_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> How's the stability of the Squeak VM?  Can I rely on a Squeak VM running a
> Seaside or Magma app to have uptimes in the many weeks or months?

You can't rely on the Squeak VM, you can't rely on the compiler, you
can't rely on the libraries, ... though I still think it is worth to
take the risk, after all you have access to everything, from top to
bottom ;-)

We have some images that run without problems for years and I am sure
that other people have similar success stories. We also had images
that ran for years and then suddenly started to crash or behave bad
otherwise, without any obvious explanation.

Cheers,
Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

This one was recently interrupted by my provider (Huston had a problem):

- http://squeak.cobss.ch/seaside/pier

The image was started in November 2005 ...

/Klaus

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:13:56 +0200, Lukas Renggli wrote:


_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> This one was recently interrupted by my provider (Huston had a problem):
>
> - http://squeak.cobss.ch/seaside/pier
>
> The image was started in November 2005 ...

You should remove the toolbar, I just crashed your image ;-)

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

Hi Lukas,

this was (and is) not part of the exercise ! :)

I don't want to remove the toolbar, so how can the next crash be avoided?

/Klaus

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:04:05 +0200, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

>> This one was recently interrupted by my provider (Huston had a problem):
>>
>> - http://squeak.cobss.ch/seaside/pier
>>
>> The image was started in November 2005 ...
>
> You should remove the toolbar, I just crashed your image ;-)
>


_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> this was (and is) not part of the exercise ! :)
>
> I don't want to remove the toolbar, so how can the next crash be avoided?

Remove the debugger-, browser- and style-editor from the halos. Remove
the classes WADispatchEditor, WAExampleBrowser, WAScreenshot and
WAVersionUploader from your image or at least the method #canBeRoot
from these classes.

This should makes it slightly harder to break, though you can also
count on the fact that there are only few people that actually know
and care how they could hack your image ;-) Still, take care:
everybody is able to evaluate any Smalltalk code in your image and
potentially do other nasty things on your machine, like deleting all
files, changing the user password, uploading a root-kit, etc.

Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

Thank you Lukas this gives me (at least) some work to do ;-)

But don't worry about hackers and root-kits: the .image is protected by  
several vendors' [tm]s (you know, all these fetishes sticking on CD-ROMs  
and cardboard): it is running in a commercial virtual box. </grin>

/Klaus

P.S. wanna win the " longest Re: Re: Re: " competition with the config  
settings in your mailer?

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:30:12 +0200, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]>  
wrote:


_______________________________________________
Seaside mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside