Handle Close Event in Image - necessary for 1.0?

>>So...which is the working Windows VM we should use for 1.0 ? the one before
>>4 version.
>
> Last one before this change was introduced was the 3.11.8 Squeak VM
> which I adapted for Pharo. You can download it from:
>
> https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/26654/PharoVM-Win32-3.11.8.zip
>
>
> However I still believe that fixing this in 1.0 would not only
> be a plus - it will also prevent questions regarding this
> new problem since people WILL use newer VM's after the
> first 1.0 release of Pharo and then instantly step into the problem!
>
>
> And it is not a Windows specific problem as Stef thinks it is.
>
> Bert requested John today (see [1]) to change the default for Mac too ...
> so if you upgrade your Mac VM for whatever reason (maybe to do
> 1.1 work or since you need a newer VM for a commercial project)
> then you will step into this with the 1.0 image.
>
> Guess what people think when Pharo tries to bring Squeak to a
> better quality level and then would not be able to close the
> system as usual after upgrading to a newer and better VM.
>
> But maybe my expectations for a 1.0 release are too high...
>
> Bye
> T.
>
>
>
> [1] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-April/004218.html
>
> --
> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

> 1.0 will be a maintained release. I suggest we push out 1.0 and
> schedule this fix for the first maintenance release. otherwise we will
> never get it out the door. from a process point of view, there will
> always be another important bug to fix.
>
> thanks,
> Mike
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> So...which is the working Windows VM we should use for 1.0 ? the one before
>>> 4 version.
>>
>> Last one before this change was introduced was the 3.11.8 Squeak VM
>> which I adapted for Pharo. You can download it from:
>>
>> https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/26654/PharoVM-Win32-3.11.8.zip
>>
>>
>> However I still believe that fixing this in 1.0 would not only
>> be a plus - it will also prevent questions regarding this
>> new problem since people WILL use newer VM's after the
>> first 1.0 release of Pharo and then instantly step into the problem!
>>
>>
>> And it is not a Windows specific problem as Stef thinks it is.
>>
>> Bert requested John today (see [1]) to change the default for Mac too ...
>> so if you upgrade your Mac VM for whatever reason (maybe to do
>> 1.1 work or since you need a newer VM for a commercial project)
>> then you will step into this with the 1.0 image.
>>
>> Guess what people think when Pharo tries to bring Squeak to a
>> better quality level and then would not be able to close the
>> system as usual after upgrading to a newer and better VM.
>>
>> But maybe my expectations for a 1.0 release are too high...
>>
>> Bye
>> T.
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-April/004218.html
>>
>> --
>> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
>> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> +1
>
> On Apr 6, 2010, at 7:53 PM, Michael Roberts wrote:
>
>> 1.0 will be a maintained release. I suggest we push out 1.0 and
>> schedule this fix for the first maintenance release. otherwise we will
>> never get it out the door. from a process point of view, there will
>> always be another important bug to fix.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Mike
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> So...which is the working Windows VM we should use for 1.0 ? the one before
>>>> 4 version.
>>>
>>> Last one before this change was introduced was the 3.11.8 Squeak VM
>>> which I adapted for Pharo. You can download it from:
>>>
>>> https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/26654/PharoVM-Win32-3.11.8.zip
>>>
>>>
>>> However I still believe that fixing this in 1.0 would not only
>>> be a plus - it will also prevent questions regarding this
>>> new problem since people WILL use newer VM's after the
>>> first 1.0 release of Pharo and then instantly step into the problem!
>>>
>>>
>>> And it is not a Windows specific problem as Stef thinks it is.
>>>
>>> Bert requested John today (see [1]) to change the default for Mac too ...
>>> so if you upgrade your Mac VM for whatever reason (maybe to do
>>> 1.1 work or since you need a newer VM for a commercial project)
>>> then you will step into this with the 1.0 image.
>>>
>>> Guess what people think when Pharo tries to bring Squeak to a
>>> better quality level and then would not be able to close the
>>> system as usual after upgrading to a newer and better VM.
>>>
>>> But maybe my expectations for a 1.0 release are too high...
>>>
>>> Bye
>>> T.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-April/004218.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
>>> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> Guess what people think when Pharo tries to bring Squeak to a
> better quality level and then would not be able to close the
> system as usual after upgrading to a newer and better VM.
>
> But maybe my expectations for a 1.0 release are too high...
>
> Bye
> T.
>
>
>
> [1] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-April/004218.html
>
> --
> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> Torsten I appreciate your effort but we can only do what can be done
> in the time we can allocate to do  a task if you see what I mean.  I
> cannot test on windows because we  do not have a windows machine. We
> are doing an incredible amount of work but we cannot do more than it
> is reasonable to do.
>  Then in freeze time this is freeze time. we will try to get shorter
> iteration cycles and this is not  by delaying 1.0 that we are making
> progress on that front.
>  And this  is not by saying  that pharo "will be  less quality than"
> ... more or less that it helps.
>  So 1.0 will be  like it can. And if people bash  us this is ok too.
> You remember a while ago one guy  asked who is ready to pay 10 Euros
> per month to have a better pharo and we got 6 persons....

> Em 06/04/2010 17:48, Stéphane Ducasse < [hidden email] > escreveu:
>
>> Torsten I appreciate your effort but we can only do what can be done
>> in the time we can allocate to do  a task if you see what I mean.  I
>> cannot test on windows because we  do not have a windows machine. We
>> are doing an incredible amount of work but we cannot do more than it
>> is reasonable to do.
>> Then in freeze time this is freeze time. we will try to get shorter
>> iteration cycles and this is not  by delaying 1.0 that we are making
>> progress on that front.
>> And this  is not by saying  that pharo "will be  less quality than"
>> ... more or less that it helps.
>> So 1.0 will be  like it can. And if people bash  us this is ok too.
>> You remember a while ago one guy  asked who is ready to pay 10 Euros
>> per month to have a better pharo and we got 6 persons....
>
> BTW, did you find a means of collecting the contributions?

> Torsten I appreciate your effort but we can only do what can be done in the time
> we can allocate to do a task if you see what I mean.
> I cannot test on windows because we do not have a windows machine. We are doing an incredible
> amount of work but we cannot do more than it is reasonable to do.
>
> Then in freeze time this is freeze time. we will try to get shorter iteration cycles and this is not
> by delaying 1.0 that we are making progress on that front.
>
> And this is not by saying that pharo "will be less quality than" ... more or less that it helps.
>
> So 1.0 will be like it can. And if people bash us this is ok too.
> You remember a while ago one guy asked who is ready to pay 10 Euros per month to have a
> better pharo and we got 6 persons....
>
>> However I still believe that fixing this in 1.0 would not only
>> be a plus - it will also prevent questions regarding this
>> new problem since people WILL use newer VM's after the
>> first 1.0 release of Pharo and then instantly step into the problem!
>>
>>
>> And it is not a Windows specific problem as Stef thinks it is.
>>
>> Bert requested John today (see [1]) to change the default for Mac too ...
>
> TODAY. Imagine I was painting my house.... and this evening this would have to be fixed?
> When is the last time that a bug that annoys you on windows got fixed in one day?
> because for me on mac so far it took months.
>
>> so if you upgrade your Mac VM for whatever reason (maybe to do
>> 1.1 work or since you need a newer VM for a commercial project)
>> then you will step into this with the 1.0 image.
>
> Yes and since you are a good pharoers you will know and you will understand
> and help us and help yourself.

>
> On Apr 6, 2010, at 10:48 19PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
>> Torsten I appreciate your effort but we can only do what can be done in the time
>> we can allocate to do a task if you see what I mean.
>> I cannot test on windows because we do not have a windows machine. We are doing an incredible
>> amount of work but we cannot do more than it is reasonable to do.
>>
>> Then in freeze time this is freeze time. we will try to get shorter iteration cycles and this is not
>> by delaying 1.0 that we are making progress on that front.
>>
>> And this is not by saying that pharo "will be less quality than" ... more or less that it helps.
>>
>> So 1.0 will be like it can. And if people bash us this is ok too.
>> You remember a while ago one guy asked who is ready to pay 10 Euros per month to have a
>> better pharo and we got 6 persons....
>>
>>> However I still believe that fixing this in 1.0 would not only
>>> be a plus - it will also prevent questions regarding this
>>> new problem since people WILL use newer VM's after the
>>> first 1.0 release of Pharo and then instantly step into the problem!
>>>
>>>
>>> And it is not a Windows specific problem as Stef thinks it is.
>>>
>>> Bert requested John today (see [1]) to change the default for Mac too ...
>>
>> TODAY. Imagine I was painting my house.... and this evening this would have to be fixed?
>> When is the last time that a bug that annoys you on windows got fixed in one day?
>> because for me on mac so far it took months.
>>
>>> so if you upgrade your Mac VM for whatever reason (maybe to do
>>> 1.1 work or since you need a newer VM for a commercial project)
>>> then you will step into this with the 1.0 image.
>>
>> Yes and since you are a good pharoers you will know and you will understand
>> and help us and help yourself.
>
> I've put some slices based on the .cs in the inbox, one for 1.0 and one for 1.1.  (quitSession was moved to WorldState in 1.1, and some other minor diffs)
> I've also tested and can confirm they work with the newest Windows VM, not sure about the behavior on Linux, which apparently was updated as well.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Henry
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

>
> On Apr 7, 2010, at 12:38 25PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
>> Thanks Henrik
>> this is something I understand. I will integrate that for 1.1
>
> Yes, there's some new stuff there which won't work well if we ever move towards multi-window support, but the entire event-handling will have to be rewritten in that case anyways, so I didn't think too much of it.
> I'd say the first step in any case would be moving Event-object generation out of the HandMorph class... (did MVC make its own kind of events?)
>
> Probably a good idea to switch to something reacting to new events in the queue rather than polling it too, if we intend to ever switch the inputEventPollingFetcher for the actual InputEventFetcher some time in the future.

> Though,  InputEventSensor installEventSensorFramework seems borken on Windows now (eventbuffer overflows with 4.0.2 VM ), and incredibly slow to signal semaphore (albeit not loosing any events anymore in 1.1) on a Mac 4.2.4 VM. On the 5.X series, it works like a dream though :D
>
> Cheers,
> Henry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project