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Hannes Hirzel

Helios IDE

Hello

What is the status of the Helios IDE? Is it work in progress or ready to use?

For example how do I execute a 'do-it' in a workspaced? For example
Transcript show: 'hello'

This is in Firefox 17 on Windows 7.

Kind regards

Hannes

Nicolas Petton

Re: Helios IDE

Hi!

Helios is really a work in progress. I expect to finish the debugger
anytime soon and then resume our work on it.

I'll keep you posted :)

If you want to contribute, here's the trello board (and feel free to
drop me an email):

https://trello.com/board/amber-helios-ide/5093f3bcb9c368f560003fe1

Cheers,
Nico

Hannes <[hidden email]> writes:

> Hello
>
> What is the status of the Helios IDE? Is it work in progress or ready to
> use?
>
> For example how do I execute a 'do-it' in a workspaced? For example
> Transcript show: 'hello'
>
> This is in Firefox 17 on Windows 7.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Hannes

--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

kilon.alios

Re: Helios IDE

Hi I am actually trying to create a visual coding enviroment not too dissimilar to what amber is trying to accomplish

My previous effort was inside Blender and using python

https://github.com/kilon/pyEphestos

But because I experience many problems with this approach I decided to go down the hmtl5/js route.

I love smalltalk so naturally I am seriously considering amber (I am almost convinced)

Because I do not want to replicate good effort other people have done possible better than me I would like to contribute to amber, code that
I create for my project than I have named "Ephestos". The goal of Ephestos is to offer a visual programming language and enviroment
for 2d / 3d graphics , music / audio synthesis and possibly (why not) web design.

I see the ide of amber already uses hmtl5 and jsquery to create the gui of the IDE and I was considering something similar.

I am naturally very interested in Helios and I was wondering if there is an overall goal of the project or more info
to be find about the direction it is going, besides the link you posted.

Also is helios the official amber ide ?

On Monday, January 7, 2013 3:21:13 PM UTC+2, nicolas petton wrote:

Hi!

Helios is really a work in progress. I expect to finish the debugger
anytime soon and then resume our work on it.

I'll keep you posted :)

If you want to contribute, here's the trello board (and feel free to
drop me an email):

https://trello.com/board/amber-helios-ide/5093f3bcb9c368f560003fe1

Cheers,
Nico

Hannes <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="MuWmtfGuiowJ">hannes...@...> writes:

> Hello
>
> What is the status of the Helios IDE? Is it work in progress or ready to
> use?
>
> For example how do I execute a 'do-it' in a workspaced? For example
> Transcript show: 'hello'
>
> This is in Firefox 17 on Windows 7.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Hannes

--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

sebastianconcept

Re: Helios IDE

a new friend! yaaaay!!!

see you in the IRC channel

sebastian

On Jan 16, 2013, at 10:33 AM, kilon alios wrote:

Hi I am actually trying to create a visual coding enviroment not too dissimilar to what amber is trying to accomplish

My previous effort was inside Blender and using python

https://github.com/kilon/pyEphestos

But because I experience many problems with this approach I decided to go down the hmtl5/js route.

I love smalltalk so naturally I am seriously considering amber (I am almost convinced)

Because I do not want to replicate good effort other people have done possible better than me I would like to contribute to amber, code that
I create for my project than I have named "Ephestos". The goal of Ephestos is to offer a visual programming language and enviroment
for 2d / 3d graphics , music / audio synthesis and possibly (why not) web design.

I see the ide of amber already uses hmtl5 and jsquery to create the gui of the IDE and I was considering something similar.

I am naturally very interested in Helios and I was wondering if there is an overall goal of the project or more info
to be find about the direction it is going, besides the link you posted.

Also is helios the official amber ide ?

On Monday, January 7, 2013 3:21:13 PM UTC+2, nicolas petton wrote:

Hi!

Helios is really a work in progress. I expect to finish the debugger
anytime soon and then resume our work on it.

I'll keep you posted :)

If you want to contribute, here's the trello board (and feel free to
drop me an email):

https://trello.com/board/amber-helios-ide/5093f3bcb9c368f560003fe1

Cheers,
Nico

Hannes <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="MuWmtfGuiowJ">hannes...@...> writes:

> Hello
>
> What is the status of the Helios IDE? Is it work in progress or ready to
> use?
>
> For example how do I execute a 'do-it' in a workspaced? For example
> Transcript show: 'hello'
>
> This is in Firefox 17 on Windows 7.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Hannes

--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

NorbertHartl

Re: Helios IDE

Am 16.01.2013 um 13:41 schrieb sebastian <[hidden email]>:

a new friend! yaaaay!!!

see you in the IRC channel

It would still be nice to say something here because not all are on the IRC chanel! which btw.?

Norbert

sebastian

o/

On Jan 16, 2013, at 10:33 AM, kilon alios wrote:

Hi I am actually trying to create a visual coding enviroment not too dissimilar to what amber is trying to accomplish

My previous effort was inside Blender and using python

https://github.com/kilon/pyEphestos

But because I experience many problems with this approach I decided to go down the hmtl5/js route.

I love smalltalk so naturally I am seriously considering amber (I am almost convinced)

Because I do not want to replicate good effort other people have done possible better than me I would like to contribute to amber, code that
I create for my project than I have named "Ephestos". The goal of Ephestos is to offer a visual programming language and enviroment
for 2d / 3d graphics , music / audio synthesis and possibly (why not) web design.

I see the ide of amber already uses hmtl5 and jsquery to create the gui of the IDE and I was considering something similar.

I am naturally very interested in Helios and I was wondering if there is an overall goal of the project or more info
to be find about the direction it is going, besides the link you posted.

Also is helios the official amber ide ?

On Monday, January 7, 2013 3:21:13 PM UTC+2, nicolas petton wrote:

Hi!

Helios is really a work in progress. I expect to finish the debugger
anytime soon and then resume our work on it.

I'll keep you posted :)

If you want to contribute, here's the trello board (and feel free to
drop me an email):

https://trello.com/board/amber-helios-ide/5093f3bcb9c368f560003fe1

Cheers,
Nico

Hannes <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="MuWmtfGuiowJ">hannes...@...> writes:

> Hello
>
> What is the status of the Helios IDE? Is it work in progress or ready to
> use?
>
> For example how do I execute a 'do-it' in a workspaced? For example
> Transcript show: 'hello'
>
> This is in Firefox 17 on Windows 7.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Hannes

--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

kilon.alios

Re: Helios IDE

Well from the irc chat we had, it appears Helios is the official IDE of amber.

It also seems that is very close to what I want to accomplish so it seems I will be contributing to it as much I can,

I still need a place to discuss the direction people want to take Helios.

I see there is also an interest to morphic and visual coding with amber which is also a focus of my project.

Another goal I have is to have a compiler that produces readable JS code. That goal could be accomplished by bringing

source maps to amber as already discusses in another thread in this forum.

So it seems amber is going exactly the direction I want to go with Ephestos.

For now I will dive inside the core of amber and see what makes it tick.

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:

Am 16.01.2013 um 13:41 schrieb sebastian <[hidden email]>:

a new friend! yaaaay!!!

see you in the IRC channel

It would still be nice to say something here because not all are on the IRC chanel! which btw.?

Norbert

sebastian

o/

On Jan 16, 2013, at 10:33 AM, kilon alios wrote:

Hi I am actually trying to create a visual coding enviroment not too dissimilar to what amber is trying to accomplish

My previous effort was inside Blender and using python

https://github.com/kilon/pyEphestos

But because I experience many problems with this approach I decided to go down the hmtl5/js route.

I love smalltalk so naturally I am seriously considering amber (I am almost convinced)

Because I do not want to replicate good effort other people have done possible better than me I would like to contribute to amber, code that
I create for my project than I have named "Ephestos". The goal of Ephestos is to offer a visual programming language and enviroment
for 2d / 3d graphics , music / audio synthesis and possibly (why not) web design.

I see the ide of amber already uses hmtl5 and jsquery to create the gui of the IDE and I was considering something similar.

I am naturally very interested in Helios and I was wondering if there is an overall goal of the project or more info
to be find about the direction it is going, besides the link you posted.

Also is helios the official amber ide ?

On Monday, January 7, 2013 3:21:13 PM UTC+2, nicolas petton wrote:

Hi!

Helios is really a work in progress. I expect to finish the debugger
anytime soon and then resume our work on it.

I'll keep you posted :)

If you want to contribute, here's the trello board (and feel free to
drop me an email):

https://trello.com/board/amber-helios-ide/5093f3bcb9c368f560003fe1

Cheers,
Nico

Hannes <[hidden email]> writes:

> Hello
>
> What is the status of the Helios IDE? Is it work in progress or ready to
> use?
>
> For example how do I execute a 'do-it' in a workspaced? For example
> Transcript show: 'hello'
>
> This is in Firefox 17 on Windows 7.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Hannes

--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

Herby Vojčík

Re: Helios IDE

kilon alios wrote:
> Well from the irc chat we had, it appears Helios is the official IDE of
> amber.

I'd say "official-to-be", for the time being official is the old one. At
least that is how I see it.

> It also seems that is very close to what I want to accomplish so it
> seems I will be contributing to it as much I can,
>
> I still need a place to discuss the direction people want to take Helios.
>
> I see there is also an interest to morphic and visual coding with amber
> which is also a focus of my project.
>
> Another goal I have is to have a compiler that produces readable JS
> code. That goal could be accomplished by bringing
> source maps to amber as already discusses in another thread in this forum.

For the time being, message-send branch is changing the output of the
compiler in such a way that, me personally, would see it as very
readable code. Of course, source maps are better, but
_st(foo)._bar_(_st(baz))
is pretty readable compilation of
foo bar: baz
at least in the meantime.

This is not yet in the master, there is still the old
smalltalk.send(foo, "_bar_", [baz])
which is less readable.

Herby

kilon.alios

Re: Helios IDE

Can't say any of your examples looks readable to me.
Readable for me would be foo.bar(baz)

But it's ok I can settle with unreadable code for now. It's not a big issue.

On Jan 16, 2013 5:39 PM, "Herby Vojčík" <[hidden email]> wrote:

kilon alios wrote:

Well from the irc chat we had, it appears Helios is the official IDE of
amber.

I'd say "official-to-be", for the time being official is the old one. At least that is how I see it.

It also seems that is very close to what I want to accomplish so it
seems I will be contributing to it as much I can,

I still need a place to discuss the direction people want to take Helios.

I see there is also an interest to morphic and visual coding with amber
which is also a focus of my project.

Another goal I have is to have a compiler that produces readable JS
code. That goal could be accomplished by bringing
source maps to amber as already discusses in another thread in this forum.

For the time being, message-send branch is changing the output of the compiler in such a way that, me personally, would see it as very readable code. Of course, source maps are better, but
_st(foo)._bar_(_st(baz))
is pretty readable compilation of
foo bar: baz
at least in the meantime.

This is not yet in the master, there is still the old
smalltalk.send(foo, "_bar_", [baz])
which is less readable.

Herby

NorbertHartl

Re: Helios IDE

In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík

Am 16.01.2013 um 16:39 schrieb Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]>:

>
>
> kilon alios wrote:
>> Well from the irc chat we had, it appears Helios is the official IDE of
>> amber.
>
> I'd say "official-to-be", for the time being official is the old one. At least that is how I see it.
>
>> It also seems that is very close to what I want to accomplish so it
>> seems I will be contributing to it as much I can,
>>
>> I still need a place to discuss the direction people want to take Helios.
>>
>> I see there is also an interest to morphic and visual coding with amber
>> which is also a focus of my project.
>>
>> Another goal I have is to have a compiler that produces readable JS
>> code. That goal could be accomplished by bringing
>> source maps to amber as already discusses in another thread in this forum.
>
> For the time being, message-send branch is changing the output of the compiler in such a way that, me personally, would see it as very readable code. Of course, source maps are better, but
> _st(foo)._bar_(_st(baz))
> is pretty readable compilation of
> foo bar: baz
> at least in the meantime.
>
> This is not yet in the master, there is still the old
> smalltalk.send(foo, "_bar_", [baz])
> which is less readable.
>

Ah, great. I was looking into a way to be able to obfuscate amber code. The javascript only calls avoid to have string based sends. That might make it way easier for e.g. closure compiler to optimize without breaking. Maybe a little help from the Compiler would make it safe. Is there a rough date when this will be in the main branch?

Norbert

kilon.alios

Re: Helios IDE

In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík

Can't say any of your examples looks readable to me.
Readable for me would be foo.bar(baz)

But it's ok I can settle with unreadable code for now. It's not a big issue.

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:39:05 PM UTC+2, Herby wrote:

kilon alios wrote:
> Well from the irc chat we had, it appears Helios is the official IDE of
> amber.

I'd say "official-to-be", for the time being official is the old one. At
least that is how I see it.

> It also seems that is very close to what I want to accomplish so it
> seems I will be contributing to it as much I can,
>
> I still need a place to discuss the direction people want to take Helios.
>
> I see there is also an interest to morphic and visual coding with amber
> which is also a focus of my project.
>
> Another goal I have is to have a compiler that produces readable JS
> code. That goal could be accomplished by bringing
> source maps to amber as already discusses in another thread in this forum.

For the time being, message-send branch is changing the output of the
compiler in such a way that, me personally, would see it as very
readable code. Of course, source maps are better, but
_st(foo)._bar_(_st(baz))
is pretty readable compilation of
foo bar: baz
at least in the meantime.

This is not yet in the master, there is still the old
smalltalk.send(foo, "_bar_", [baz])
which is less readable.

Herby

Nicolas Petton

Re: Helios IDE

In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík

I'm actually very close to a working AST interpreter implementation that
would allow us to write a stepping debugger on top of it.

YOU can take a look at the ast_interpreter branch on github (careful
though, dragons there).

Cheers,
Nico

Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> writes:

> kilon alios wrote:
>> Well from the irc chat we had, it appears Helios is the official IDE of
>> amber.
>
> I'd say "official-to-be", for the time being official is the old one. At
> least that is how I see it.
>
>> It also seems that is very close to what I want to accomplish so it
>> seems I will be contributing to it as much I can,
>>
>> I still need a place to discuss the direction people want to take Helios.
>>
>> I see there is also an interest to morphic and visual coding with amber
>> which is also a focus of my project.
>>
>> Another goal I have is to have a compiler that produces readable JS
>> code. That goal could be accomplished by bringing
>> source maps to amber as already discusses in another thread in this forum.
>
> For the time being, message-send branch is changing the output of the
> compiler in such a way that, me personally, would see it as very
> readable code. Of course, source maps are better, but
> _st(foo)._bar_(_st(baz))
> is pretty readable compilation of
> foo bar: baz
> at least in the meantime.
>
> This is not yet in the master, there is still the old
> smalltalk.send(foo, "_bar_", [baz])
> which is less readable.
>
> Herby

--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

Nicolas Petton

Re: Helios IDE

In reply to this post by NorbertHartl

I was hoping to merge this branch into master next week, but we will see
:)

Nico

Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> writes:

> Am 16.01.2013 um 16:39 schrieb Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]>:
>
>>
>>
>> kilon alios wrote:
>>> Well from the irc chat we had, it appears Helios is the official IDE of
>>> amber.
>>
>> I'd say "official-to-be", for the time being official is the old one. At least that is how I see it.
>>
>>> It also seems that is very close to what I want to accomplish so it
>>> seems I will be contributing to it as much I can,
>>>
>>> I still need a place to discuss the direction people want to take Helios.
>>>
>>> I see there is also an interest to morphic and visual coding with amber
>>> which is also a focus of my project.
>>>
>>> Another goal I have is to have a compiler that produces readable JS
>>> code. That goal could be accomplished by bringing
>>> source maps to amber as already discusses in another thread in this forum.
>>
>> For the time being, message-send branch is changing the output of the compiler in such a way that, me personally, would see it as very readable code. Of course, source maps are better, but
>> _st(foo)._bar_(_st(baz))
>> is pretty readable compilation of
>> foo bar: baz
>> at least in the meantime.
>>
>> This is not yet in the master, there is still the old
>> smalltalk.send(foo, "_bar_", [baz])
>> which is less readable.
>>
> Ah, great. I was looking into a way to be able to obfuscate amber code. The javascript only calls avoid to have string based sends. That might make it way easier for e.g. closure compiler to optimize without breaking. Maybe a little help from the Compiler would make it safe. Is there a rough date when this will be in the main branch?
>
> Norbert
>
>

--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr