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Nicolas Petton

Helios: Integrated documentation

Hey guys,

Yet another screenshot to show the brand new integrated documentation of Helios.

There's still room for improvements, but I think it's a great step forward!

Cheers,

nico

--
Nicolas Petton
http://www.nicolas-petton.fr

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xekoukou

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

Pretty amazing.

2013/5/2 Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]>

Hey guys,

Yet another screenshot to show the brand new integrated documentation of Helios.

There's still room for improvements, but I think it's a great step forward!

Cheers,
nico

--
Nicolas Petton
http://www.nicolas-petton.fr

Sincerely yours,

     Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis

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Geert Claes

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

Administrator

In reply to this post by Nicolas Petton

Nice

Just something that has been bugging me, from a UX point of view I don't understand why the Instance/Class toggle - at least its not a radio button anymore :) - sits under the class pane, when it actually changes the view of the protocol and method panes. Wouldn't something like this make more sense?

Nicolas Petton

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

I kept it as it traditionally is in Smalltalk browsers :)
Now IMHO you are right, but somehow, because I'm used to see it this way, it feels weird to me.

Nico

On May 2, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just something that has been bugging me, from a UX point of view I don't
> understand why the Instance/Class toggle - at least its not a radio button
> anymore :) - sits under the class pane, when it actually changes the view of
> the protocol and method panes. Wouldn't something like this make more
> sense?

--
Nicolas Petton
http://www.nicolas-petton.fr

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Geert Claes

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

Administrator

Nicolas Petton wrote

I kept it as it traditionally is in Smalltalk browsers :)
Now IMHO you are right, but somehow, because I'm used to see it this way, it feels weird to me.

I noticed :) I know that the Smalltalk browser hasn't really changed since the 70's or 80's and it doesn't help to get young blood on board. Out of scope here but Nautilus hasn't made it much better from a UX pov either

Micael Alastor

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

hmmm in VW smalltalk browser Instance/Class toggle is located above the protocols/methods panes.

May be Somebody is too "Squeak" =)

On Thursday, May 2, 2013 5:35:27 PM UTC+4, Geert Claes wrote:

Nicolas Petton wrote
> I kept it as it traditionally is in Smalltalk browsers :)
> Now IMHO you are right, but somehow, because I'm used to see it this way,
> it feels weird to me.

I noticed :) I know that the Smalltalk browser hasn't really changed since
the 70's or 80's and it doesn't help to get young blood on board. Out of
scope here but Nautilus hasn't made it much better from a UX pov either

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Helios-Integrated-documentation-tp4684866p4684995.html
Sent from the Amber Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Hannes Hirzel

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

In reply to this post by Nicolas Petton

On 5/2/13, Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I kept it as it traditionally is in Smalltalk browsers :)
> Now IMHO you are right,
+1

If I am not mistaken, some Smalltalk implementation in the past had a
radio button.
I would not mind seeing a radio button.

--Hannes

but somehow, because I'm used to see it this way, it

> feels weird to me.
>
> Nico
>
>
> On May 2, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Just something that has been bugging me, from a UX point of view I don't
>> understand why the Instance/Class toggle - at least its not a radio
>> button
>> anymore :) - sits under the class pane, when it actually changes the view
>> of
>> the protocol and method panes. Wouldn't something like this make more
>> sense?
>
> --
> Nicolas Petton
> http://www.nicolas-petton.fr
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "amber-lang" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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>
>

sebastianconcept

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

state should be provided

for example radio buttons or tabs

visually grouping categories and methods is what makes sense the most (visual disambiguation)

sebastian

o/

On 08/05/2013, at 18:03, "H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 5/2/13, Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I kept it as it traditionally is in Smalltalk browsers :)
>> Now IMHO you are right,
> +1
>
> If I am not mistaken, some Smalltalk implementation in the past had a
> radio button.
> I would not mind seeing a radio button.
>
> --Hannes
>
> but somehow, because I'm used to see it this way, it
>> feels weird to me.
>>
>> Nico
>>
>>
>> On May 2, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Just something that has been bugging me, from a UX point of view I don't
>>> understand why the Instance/Class toggle - at least its not a radio
>>> button
>>> anymore :) - sits under the class pane, when it actually changes the view
>>> of
>>> the protocol and method panes. Wouldn't something like this make more
>>> sense?
>>
>> --
>> Nicolas Petton
>> http://www.nicolas-petton.fr
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "amber-lang" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to [hidden email].
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>
> --
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Darius Clarke

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel

I'd prefer no switch or button at all.

Just have the class method categories listed below the instance method categories in the same panel. Maybe color code them as different, bold them, and/or have a strong visual divider bar between the two.

This follows Jef Raskin's UI design principle of "minimal number of modes".

"The Humane Interface".

It also makes it more "flickable" for touch devices.

- Darius

On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 2:03 PM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 5/2/13, Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I kept it as it traditionally is in Smalltalk browsers :)
> Now IMHO you are right,

+1

If I am not mistaken, some Smalltalk implementation in the past had a
radio button.
I would not mind seeing a radio button.

--Hannes

but somehow, because I'm used to see it this way, it
> feels weird to me.
>

> Nico
>
>
> On May 2, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Just something that has been bugging me, from a UX point of view I don't
>> understand why the Instance/Class toggle - at least its not a radio
>> button
>> anymore :) - sits under the class pane, when it actually changes the view
>> of
>> the protocol and method panes. Wouldn't something like this make more
>> sense?
>
> --
> Nicolas Petton
> http://www.nicolas-petton.fr

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "amber-lang" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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>
>
>

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Esteban A. Maringolo

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

Darius Clarke wrote

I'd prefer no switch or button at all.

Just have the class method categories listed below the instance method
categories in the same panel. Maybe color code them as different, bold
them, and/or have a strong visual divider bar between the two.

I wouldn't do that. The confusion would be huge.

I think I can understand why it was choosen to be under the class list, because in fact it is a separate hierarchy.

However, I would take a VisualWorks or even a Dolphin Smalltalk approach with this.

Dolphin uses the radio button proposed.
See: http://www.object-arts.com/downloads/docs/index.html?system_browser.htm

Regards!

Nicolas Petton

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

why not :) I'll make different experiments with radio buttons and tabs.

Cheers,
Nico

On May 10, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Darius Clarke wrote
>> I'd prefer no switch or button at all.
>>
>> Just have the class method categories listed below the instance method
>> categories in the same panel. Maybe color code them as different, bold
>> them, and/or have a strong visual divider bar between the two.
>
>
> I wouldn't do that. The confusion would be huge.
>
> I think I can understand why it was choosen to be under the class list,
> because in fact it is a separate hierarchy.
>
> However, I would take a VisualWorks or even a Dolphin Smalltalk approach
> with this.
>
> Dolphin uses the radio button proposed.
> See: http://www.object-arts.com/downloads/docs/index.html?system_browser.htm
>
> Regards!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Helios-Integrated-documentation-tp4684866p4686707.html
> Sent from the Amber Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "amber-lang" group.
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>
>

--
Nicolas Petton
http://www.nicolas-petton.fr

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Hannes Hirzel

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

Hello Nico

I just realized (11 months later while I actually start using Helios)
that Helios understands Markdown

*italic*
**bold*

code expression

in the class documentations.

Amazing how neat the documentation looks. Congratulations to this feature.

--Hannes

On 5/10/13, Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> why not :) I'll make different experiments with radio buttons and tabs.
>
> Cheers,
> Nico
>
> On May 10, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Darius Clarke wrote
>>> I'd prefer no switch or button at all.
>>>
>>> Just have the class method categories listed below the instance method
>>> categories in the same panel. Maybe color code them as different, bold
>>> them, and/or have a strong visual divider bar between the two.
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't do that. The confusion would be huge.
>>
>> I think I can understand why it was choosen to be under the class list,
>> because in fact it is a separate hierarchy.
>>
>> However, I would take a VisualWorks or even a Dolphin Smalltalk approach
>> with this.
>>
>> Dolphin uses the radio button proposed.
>> See:
>> http://www.object-arts.com/downloads/docs/index.html?system_browser.htm
>>
>> Regards!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://forum.world.st/Helios-Integrated-documentation-tp4684866p4686707.html
>> Sent from the Amber Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "amber-lang" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to [hidden email].
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>
> --
> Nicolas Petton
> http://www.nicolas-petton.fr
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "amber-lang" group.
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>
>

sebastianconcept

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

In reply to this post by Nicolas Petton

Looks fantastic!

really nice.

Looking forward to get my hands on it :)

On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 7:13:56 PM UTC-3, nicolas petton wrote:

Hey guys,

Yet another screenshot to show the brand new integrated documentation of Helios.
There's still room for improvements, but I think it's a great step forward!

Cheers,
nico

--
Nicolas Petton
<a href="http://www.nicolas-petton.fr" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nicolas-petton.fr\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFGsvnHk5B-ZFVDAf2E4jUy2sBHaw';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nicolas-petton.fr\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFGsvnHk5B-ZFVDAf2E4jUy2sBHaw';return true;">http://www.nicolas-petton.fr

sebastianconcept

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

In reply to this post by Esteban A. Maringolo

On Friday, May 10, 2013 9:24:25 AM UTC-3, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:

Darius Clarke wrote
> I'd prefer no switch or button at all.
>
> Just have the class method categories listed below the instance method
> categories in the same panel. Maybe color code them as different, bold
> them, and/or have a strong visual divider bar between the two.

I wouldn't do that. The confusion would be huge.

I think I can understand why it was choosen to be under the class list,
because in fact it is a separate hierarchy.

However, I would take a VisualWorks or even a Dolphin Smalltalk approach
with this.

+1, I endorse Esteban about this. Dolphin's productivity was unparalleled.

I'm not a fan of radio buttons but they are okay for this one.

Here, in the screenshot below, I've used tabs because they disambiguate both, the class/instance side on methods and categories (an obvious one that I've never saw in any smalltalk IDE yet)

https://github.com/sebastianconcept/Creativity

Nicolas Petton

Re: Helios: Integrated documentation

In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel

H. Hirzel writes:

> Hello Nico
>
> I just realized (11 months later while I actually start using Helios)
> that Helios understands Markdown
>
> *italic*
> **bold*
>
> code expression
>
> in the class documentations.
>
> Amazing how neat the documentation looks. Congratulations to this
> feature.

thanks :)

Nico

>
> --Hannes
>
> On 5/10/13, Nicolas Petton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> why not :) I'll make different experiments with radio buttons and tabs.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nico
>>
>> On May 10, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Darius Clarke wrote
>>>> I'd prefer no switch or button at all.
>>>>
>>>> Just have the class method categories listed below the instance method
>>>> categories in the same panel. Maybe color code them as different, bold
>>>> them, and/or have a strong visual divider bar between the two.
>>>
>>>
>>> I wouldn't do that. The confusion would be huge.
>>>
>>> I think I can understand why it was choosen to be under the class list,
>>> because in fact it is a separate hierarchy.
>>>
>>> However, I would take a VisualWorks or even a Dolphin Smalltalk approach
>>> with this.
>>>
>>> Dolphin uses the radio button proposed.
>>> See:
>>> http://www.object-arts.com/downloads/docs/index.html?system_browser.htm
>>>
>>> Regards!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://forum.world.st/Helios-Integrated-documentation-tp4684866p4686707.html
>>> Sent from the Amber Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "amber-lang" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>> email to [hidden email].
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Nicolas Petton
>> http://www.nicolas-petton.fr
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>>

--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

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