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After a couple years away from Smalltalk, I thought I'd put
Squeak/Seaside on a server I have as an excuse to play around with ST again. But I found myself at a bit of a loss as to how to get the thing up and running so I can play with it. The way I'd setup a Lisp-based system would be to start the Lisp image on the server running under screen and detach from it. When I want to hack the system, I'd remotely connect to the running image with an Emacs-based ide, or attach to the screen and start up the Lisp's built-in ide, connecting to the correct X11 display. When done hacking, I'd disconnect/close the ide, and leave the server running. Translating these concepts as best I can to Squeak, my impulse is to create an image loaded with Seaside, etc., along with RemoteFrameBuffer, on my local machine. I'd then start the image up running in headless mode on the server, and much like with Lisp, detach the screen and connect to the running image with a VNC client. Is this reasonable/normal? How do you all setup your environments? My ST experience has so far been limited to doing things locally on one machine. Thanks in advance, Thomas _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
> After a couple years away from Smalltalk, I thought I'd put > Squeak/Seaside on a server I have as an excuse to play around with ST > again. But I found myself at a bit of a loss as to how to get the > thing up and running so I can play with it. [ ... ] > Translating these concepts as best I can to Squeak, my impulse is to > create an image loaded with Seaside, etc., along with > RemoteFrameBuffer, on my local machine. I'd then start the image up > running in headless mode on the server, and much like with Lisp, > detach the screen and connect to the running image with a VNC client. > > Is this reasonable/normal? How do you all setup your environments? > My ST experience has so far been limited to doing things locally on > one machine. Well.. I can't speak for Squeak since I don't use it, but I use VisualWorks running on Linux.. In that setup, I use VNC to have a Gnome Session going -- in that is a VisualWorks image that has the standard X11 windows for doing still just as if you were sitting in front of the machine.. I can connect to it while I'm at work if it's lunch time or similar and want to fiddle around a bit.. Works great over a nice SSH session.. My current VW development image has been running continuously in my VNC environment for the past several weeks w/o being shutdown or whatever.. I just make sure I publish to my local Store repository once in a while and of course save my image too.. YMMV! _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Thomas F. Burdick-2
Hi
> After a couple years away from Smalltalk, I thought I'd put > Squeak/Seaside on a server I have as an excuse to play around with ST > again. But I found myself at a bit of a loss as to how to get the > thing up and running so I can play with it. > > The way I'd setup a Lisp-based system would be to start the Lisp image > on the server running under screen and detach from it. When I want to > hack the system, I'd remotely connect to the running image with an > Emacs-based ide, or attach to the screen and start up the Lisp's > built-in ide, connecting to the correct X11 display. When done > hacking, I'd disconnect/close the ide, and leave the server running. but for using squeak, I prefer to use it locally... but this is possible... plus you have a seaside interface to launch/close the rfb server > > Translating these concepts as best I can to Squeak, my impulse is to > create an image loaded with Seaside, etc., along with > RemoteFrameBuffer, on my local machine. I'd then start the image up > running in headless mode on the server, and much like with Lisp, > detach the screen and connect to the running image with a VNC client. > > Is this reasonable/normal? How do you all setup your environments? > My ST experience has so far been limited to doing things locally on > one machine. > (http://onsmalltalk.com) - load the RFB package (http://squeaksouce.com/RFB) - add this repository in monticello --- change the password RFBServer setFullPassword - initialize the WAVNCControler (the seaside app) - WAVNCControler initialize - open the web server (WAKom startOn: 8080) or open the VNC server (open menu).... - then save the image... put it on your server - lauch the image headless: nohup squeak -headless your.image & then you can connect to the seaside vnc app to start the server http://yourServer:8080/tools/vnc or if already opened when saved, you can directly connect with you vnc client... hth Cédrick _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Thomas F. Burdick-2
Hi,
> Translating these concepts as best I can to Squeak, my impulse is to > create an image loaded with Seaside, etc., along with > RemoteFrameBuffer, on my local machine. I'd then start the image up > running in headless mode on the server, and much like with Lisp, > detach the screen and connect to the running image with a VNC client. > > Is this reasonable/normal? How do you all setup your environments? > My ST experience has so far been limited to doing things locally on > one machine. > have here the same apache setup as on the server. I have my developer image and a smaller image. When I'm lazy I just copy over my working version to the server to get everything up very fast. I don't use VNC for developing very much because it is much slower than to work local. My plans are to use the KernelImage from Pavel. It is an incredible valuable work for e.g. server deployment. It's an image with nearly nothing in it but everything is loadable to customize the image. I don't know if it is possible to use RemoteFrameBuffer on it. But the best way for deployment will be to have a bootstrap script. This script can take the kernel image and installs everything's needed into it. Then you have a tiny and best customized image to run. If RemoteFrameBuffer works there is even space for hot fixes ;) regards, Norbert _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Forked processes and Seaside on VW
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In reply to this post by cbeler
I depend on forked processes in Run BASIC. When the user interacts with the
web browser it sends messages to a model which forks to do its thing. These processes yield frequently to give each other time to execute. I fork these processes at userBackgroundPriority, which I believe is at 30. When I look in the Process Monitor the actual Seaside application that the user interacts with seems to be running at 65. So, I'm trying to figure out why when I have one process running at priority level 30 it causes a Seaside session running at 65 to run very sluggishly. Shouldn't the higher priority process preempt the lower priority one that is yielding frequently? -Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC http://www.libertybasic.com _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Thomas F. Burdick-2
2007/3/1, Thomas F. Burdick <[hidden email]>:
> After a couple years away from Smalltalk, I thought I'd put > Squeak/Seaside on a server I have as an excuse to play around with ST > again. But I found myself at a bit of a loss as to how to get the > thing up and running so I can play with it. > > The way I'd setup a Lisp-based system would be to start the Lisp image > on the server running under screen and detach from it. When I want to > hack the system, I'd remotely connect to the running image with an > Emacs-based ide, or attach to the screen and start up the Lisp's > built-in ide, connecting to the correct X11 display. When done > hacking, I'd disconnect/close the ide, and leave the server running. > > Translating these concepts as best I can to Squeak, my impulse is to > create an image loaded with Seaside, etc., along with > RemoteFrameBuffer, on my local machine. I'd then start the image up > running in headless mode on the server, and much like with Lisp, > detach the screen and connect to the running image with a VNC client. > > Is this reasonable/normal? How do you all setup your environments? > My ST experience has so far been limited to doing things locally on > one machine. In general you develop locally and upload the code to a server image either via VNC (built in or stand alone). See: http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/blog/installation?command=PRViewCommand&view=PBPostHtmlView Only the most hardcore develop directly on the running server image via VNC ;) And even they don't do it all the time. Cheers Philippe > Thanks in advance, > Thomas > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Forked processes and Seaside on VW
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In reply to this post by Carl Gundel
Carl Gundel wrote:
> I depend on forked processes in Run BASIC. When the user interacts with > the web browser it sends messages to a model which forks to do its > thing. These processes yield frequently to give each other time to > execute. I fork these processes at userBackgroundPriority, which I > believe is at 30. When I look in the Process Monitor the actual Seaside > application that the user interacts with seems to be running at 65. So, > I'm trying to figure out why when I have one process running at priority > level 30 it causes a Seaside session running at 65 to run very > sluggishly. Shouldn't the higher priority process preempt the lower > priority one that is yielding frequently? Yes unless you have priority inversion: the higher priority process blocks on a semaphore that the lower priority process will signal. There are several accesslocks in VW that could induce such unwanted synchronization, for example in the Symbol table, in a Process' properties dictionary etc. Another reason could be that the background process does a lot of calls that block the entire VM (synchronous DLLCC callouts, DNS name lookup primitive, creating NTFS filenames, ...) Is the CPU usage 100% when you see this? HTH, Reinout ------- > > -Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC > http://www.libertybasic.com > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Thomas F. Burdick-2
On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 04:21:59PM +0100, Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
> After a couple years away from Smalltalk, I thought I'd put > Squeak/Seaside on a server I have as an excuse to play around with ST > again. But I found myself at a bit of a loss as to how to get the > thing up and running so I can play with it. > > The way I'd setup a Lisp-based system would be to start the Lisp image > on the server running under screen and detach from it. When I want to > hack the system, I'd remotely connect to the running image with an > Emacs-based ide, or attach to the screen and start up the Lisp's > built-in ide, connecting to the correct X11 display. When done > hacking, I'd disconnect/close the ide, and leave the server running. Most people use VNC for this as explained in other replies, and that should be your preferred approach. But I'll note that you can also use OSProcess to do your X11 reconnect, which would probably be about the same thing you did with your Lisp system. You would want to invoke this through Seaside with some reasonable security, but the basic idea is this: "Warning: Make sure the some.host.com is a real address, otherwise the VM will block for a long time (e..g six *minutes*) attempting to resolve the XOpenDisplay()." originalDisplayName := OSProcess thisOSProcess environmentAt: #DISPLAY. someOtherHost := 'some.host.com'. someOtherDisplayName := someOtherHost, ':0'. "Make sure that someOtherHost is a real address, otherwise XOpenDisplay() will block the Squeak VM for a long time (several minutes)." [NetNameResolver addressForName: someOtherHost timeout: 2] on: NameLookupFailure do: [:e | self error: e messageText, ' XOpenDisplay() will block for a long time! ']. squeak := OSProcess thisOSProcess. Transcript cr; show: 'Make image headless for a second'. squeak decapitate. (Delay forSeconds: 1) wait. Transcript cr; show: 'Reconnect to display'. squeak recapitate. (Delay forSeconds: 1) wait. Transcript cr; show: 'Make image headless again for a second'. squeak decapitate. (Delay forSeconds: 1) wait. Transcript cr; show: 'Now reconnect display on ', someOtherDisplayName. priorDisplay := squeak displayOnXServer: someOtherDisplayName. Transcript cr; show: 'prior display was ', priorDisplay asString. (Delay forSeconds: 1) wait. Transcript cr; show: 'Display on ', originalDisplayName. priorDisplay := squeak displayOnXServer: originalDisplayName. Transcript cr; show: 'prior display was ', priorDisplay asString Dave > > Translating these concepts as best I can to Squeak, my impulse is to > create an image loaded with Seaside, etc., along with > RemoteFrameBuffer, on my local machine. I'd then start the image up > running in headless mode on the server, and much like with Lisp, > detach the screen and connect to the running image with a VNC client. > > Is this reasonable/normal? How do you all setup your environments? > My ST experience has so far been limited to doing things locally on > one machine. > > Thanks in advance, > Thomas > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Philippe Marschall
Philippe Marschall wrote:
> 2007/3/1, Thomas F. Burdick <[hidden email]>: >> After a couple years away from Smalltalk, I thought I'd put >> Squeak/Seaside on a server I have as an excuse to play around with ST >> again. But I found myself at a bit of a loss as to how to get the >> thing up and running so I can play with it. >> >> The way I'd setup a Lisp-based system would be to start the Lisp image >> on the server running under screen and detach from it. When I want to >> hack the system, I'd remotely connect to the running image with an >> Emacs-based ide, or attach to the screen and start up the Lisp's >> built-in ide, connecting to the correct X11 display. When done >> hacking, I'd disconnect/close the ide, and leave the server running. >> >> Translating these concepts as best I can to Squeak, my impulse is to >> create an image loaded with Seaside, etc., along with >> RemoteFrameBuffer, on my local machine. I'd then start the image up >> running in headless mode on the server, and much like with Lisp, >> detach the screen and connect to the running image with a VNC client. >> >> Is this reasonable/normal? How do you all setup your environments? >> My ST experience has so far been limited to doing things locally on >> one machine. > > In general you develop locally and upload the code to a server image > either via VNC (built in or stand alone). See: > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/blog/installation?command=PRViewCommand&view=PBPostHtmlView How do you reconcile local directories every time you change something locally? _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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2007/3/4, Brad Fuller <[hidden email]>:
> Philippe Marschall wrote: > > 2007/3/1, Thomas F. Burdick <[hidden email]>: > >> After a couple years away from Smalltalk, I thought I'd put > >> Squeak/Seaside on a server I have as an excuse to play around with ST > >> again. But I found myself at a bit of a loss as to how to get the > >> thing up and running so I can play with it. > >> > >> The way I'd setup a Lisp-based system would be to start the Lisp image > >> on the server running under screen and detach from it. When I want to > >> hack the system, I'd remotely connect to the running image with an > >> Emacs-based ide, or attach to the screen and start up the Lisp's > >> built-in ide, connecting to the correct X11 display. When done > >> hacking, I'd disconnect/close the ide, and leave the server running. > >> > >> Translating these concepts as best I can to Squeak, my impulse is to > >> create an image loaded with Seaside, etc., along with > >> RemoteFrameBuffer, on my local machine. I'd then start the image up > >> running in headless mode on the server, and much like with Lisp, > >> detach the screen and connect to the running image with a VNC client. > >> > >> Is this reasonable/normal? How do you all setup your environments? > >> My ST experience has so far been limited to doing things locally on > >> one machine. > > > > In general you develop locally and upload the code to a server image > > either via VNC (built in or stand alone). See: > > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/blog/installation?command=PRViewCommand&view=PBPostHtmlView > > How do you reconcile local directories every time you change something > locally? Can you make an example? > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Philippe Marschall wrote:
> 2007/3/4, Brad Fuller <[hidden email]>: >> Philippe Marschall wrote: >> > 2007/3/1, Thomas F. Burdick <[hidden email]>: >> >> After a couple years away from Smalltalk, I thought I'd put >> >> Squeak/Seaside on a server I have as an excuse to play around with ST >> >> again. But I found myself at a bit of a loss as to how to get the >> >> thing up and running so I can play with it. >> >> >> >> The way I'd setup a Lisp-based system would be to start the Lisp image >> >> on the server running under screen and detach from it. When I want to >> >> hack the system, I'd remotely connect to the running image with an >> >> Emacs-based ide, or attach to the screen and start up the Lisp's >> >> built-in ide, connecting to the correct X11 display. When done >> >> hacking, I'd disconnect/close the ide, and leave the server running. >> >> >> >> Translating these concepts as best I can to Squeak, my impulse is to >> >> create an image loaded with Seaside, etc., along with >> >> RemoteFrameBuffer, on my local machine. I'd then start the image up >> >> running in headless mode on the server, and much like with Lisp, >> >> detach the screen and connect to the running image with a VNC client. >> >> >> >> Is this reasonable/normal? How do you all setup your environments? >> >> My ST experience has so far been limited to doing things locally on >> >> one machine. >> > >> > In general you develop locally and upload the code to a server image >> > either via VNC (built in or stand alone). See: >> > >> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/blog/installation?command=PRViewCommand&view=PBPostHtmlView >> >> >> How do you reconcile local directories every time you change something >> locally? > > Can you make an example? As Lukas pointed out in another email, I had a problem in that Magritte stores files externally to a specific location. Thus, if you move this image to another location, your path will be incorrect. Granted, it's not a specific Seaside problem, but an example. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by cbeler
Thanks for all the responses, especially pointing out the prepared
images, which I didn't know about. They made things a lot easier. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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