How a short trip to Python-land taught me why Smalltalk is hard
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I am not actually a Smalltalk newbie, but still find it sometomes
hard to get into areas I've never touched before. For some stuff
that was related mostly to problems with encoding and decoding
between utf-8 and iso-8859-15 on both Windows and Linux and strange
differences between these platforms, I thought I'd use something
that peopl "out there" use daily.
I chose python. I had never written anything in Python before, but it was easy to stipple together a few working programs. It took me just a few hours to find out about Skyper and some important language constructs and stuff. It was a pleasant journey for two reasons:
Back when I was young and cared for whether my preferred language was popular or not, I would be depressed by the experience. Remember, I tried Python because things were hard in Smalltalk.
So spot the message here... ;-)
Joachim
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Although I too would much prefer to work in Smalltalk, extenuating circumstances pushed me into C++ and Python during the first half of this year. Much of my experience reinforced my bias toward Smalltalk, but I did find some aspects of the tools to be attractive. My goal for ESUG is to present some of lessons and offer some on-line resources that make Smalltalk a bit more approachable. In particular, I’m looking at Ace, a web-based code editor used in Cloud 9 (https://ace.c9.io/) and the Jupyter notebook (http://jupyter.org/).
Cheers! James Foster
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Re: How a short trip to Python-land taught me why Smalltalk is hard
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In reply to this post by jtuchel
So what do you do to improve the situation of our community?
I mean do you think documentation autowrite itself? Did you write something that others can use? You see from time to time I would love to read docs that I did not write. If people would follow sven excellent practices our framework would be a lot better documented. Stef
-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France _______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org |
Re: How a short trip to Python-land taught me why Smalltalk is hard
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In reply to this post by jgfoster
jgfoster wrote
> My goal for ESUG is to present some of lessons and offer some on-line > resources that make Smalltalk a bit more approachable Cool! Looking forward to it :) ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/ESUG-f1589038.html _______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
Cheers,
Sean |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
Hi Stef,
good point - the days when I was into Smalltalk advocacy seem to be long gone. Point taken ;-) Like yours, my day has roughly about 24 hours and I am trying to build and run a business and a family. A few years ago, it was way easier for me to blog and podcast and stuff. Smalltalk advocacy is not on my agenda very often these days - I hope I can improve on that. +1 on Sven's excellent work, both in code and documentation as well as his helpfulness on all forums. Joachim Am 09.07.18 um 21:49 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse: So what do you do to improve the situation of our community?
-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel [hidden email] Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1 _______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org |
Re: How a short trip to Python-land taught me why Smalltalk is hard
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I'm not talking about advocacy :).
And Pharo is for growing business but also in a community manner because all together sharing code we get stronger. I wish you a lot of business.
-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France _______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org |
Re: How a short trip to Python-land taught me why Smalltalk is hard
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In reply to this post by jtuchel
Ever tried to write C bindings for Python? Try. I wanna see how you would do that without proper tools (C IDE, CMake, Makefiles etc yadda yadda)
You can find even more if you use HTML/CSS/Javascript. So why bothering with python? :) P.S. my stone hammer way better than your steel hydraulic press. And besides it is easy to use, and there's a lot of documentation and how-to's for it.
Best regards, Igor Stasenko. _______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org |
Re: How a short trip to Python-land taught me why Smalltalk is hard
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Hey guys - let’s not shoot the messenger on this.
All feedback gratefully received, we know there’s still lots of work to do even after the excellent progress that has been made. I know at times I get frustrated too , but am inspired by some of the great things going on. Equally it hurts to get negative feedback too. We need to rally together to get some of this stuff finished, and keep chipping away at things. I’d like to better understand the original problem - do we still have this encoding/decoding problem in Pharo 7? And can we ensure common things are documented in a clear place for others to follow. I think we have a bit of a documentation versioning issue - as lots of old things seem to come up in search results (our SEO is not brilliant on this - although a move to github might help a lot if we can create good pointers in readme.md files). This doesn’t seem like an unsolvable problem, and I’d like to see us learn from someone who has experienced something concrete. Tim Sent from my iPhone
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