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How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

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How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Peter Uhnak
 Hi,
 
 I wanted to ask about Bloc:
 
 1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned
 2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
 3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)
 
 The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
  - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
  - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements
 
 To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.
 
 Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is superfast (everything is happening instantly).
 
 Thanks,
 Peter
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Re: How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Aliaksei Syrel
Hi Peter

 I wanted to ask about Bloc:
Thanks for your interest :)

1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned

Api itself is in "final" state, however naming might be improved (changed with or without depreciations). But don't worry user-side api is already in a very good shape, at least from our perspective :)

2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)
 
Exactly :) Lines are just bloc elements as anything else: buttons, text images. They can be linear, can be arcs or bezier curves (both quadratic or cubic). Default canvas used for rendering in Bloc (SpartaCanvas) has very good support of vector shapes and lines.

 The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
        - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
        - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted, especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement). The only responsibility Bloc has is to provide a basic infrastructure that does not put any constraints on users. Which means that if you want to have a bezier line you have to subclass BlElement, implement corresponding accessors for anchor points and override drawPathOnSpartaCanvas: in order to display you line. You can learn more about canvas by checking SpartaCanvas class comment and method comments in 'api' protocol.

Layouts, alignment, transformations are part of bloc and are available to all subclasses of BlElement.

Cheers,
Alex

On 22 February 2017 at 21:32, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:
 Hi,

 I wanted to ask about Bloc:

 1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned
 2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
 3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)

 The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
        - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
        - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

 To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.

 Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is superfast (everything is happening instantly).

 Thanks,
 Peter
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Re: How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Aliaksei Syrel
We could try to do it together and maybe even make a video (stream) of implementation process :) 

Cheers,
Alex

On 22 February 2017 at 22:02, Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Peter

 I wanted to ask about Bloc:
Thanks for your interest :)

1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned

Api itself is in "final" state, however naming might be improved (changed with or without depreciations). But don't worry user-side api is already in a very good shape, at least from our perspective :)

2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)
 
Exactly :) Lines are just bloc elements as anything else: buttons, text images. They can be linear, can be arcs or bezier curves (both quadratic or cubic). Default canvas used for rendering in Bloc (SpartaCanvas) has very good support of vector shapes and lines.

 The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
        - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
        - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted, especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement). The only responsibility Bloc has is to provide a basic infrastructure that does not put any constraints on users. Which means that if you want to have a bezier line you have to subclass BlElement, implement corresponding accessors for anchor points and override drawPathOnSpartaCanvas: in order to display you line. You can learn more about canvas by checking SpartaCanvas class comment and method comments in 'api' protocol.

Layouts, alignment, transformations are part of bloc and are available to all subclasses of BlElement.

Cheers,
Alex

On 22 February 2017 at 21:32, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:
 Hi,

 I wanted to ask about Bloc:

 1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned
 2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
 3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)

 The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
        - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
        - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

 To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.

 Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is superfast (everything is happening instantly).

 Thanks,
 Peter
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Re: How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Kjell Godo
it sounds very nice

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 13:06 Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]> wrote:
We could try to do it together and maybe even make a video (stream) of implementation process :) 

Cheers,
Alex



On 22 February 2017 at 22:02, Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Peter

 I wanted to ask about Bloc:
Thanks for your interest :)

1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned

Api itself is in "final" state, however naming might be improved (changed with or without depreciations). But don't worry user-side api is already in a very good shape, at least from our perspective :)

2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)
 
Exactly :) Lines are just bloc elements as anything else: buttons, text images. They can be linear, can be arcs or bezier curves (both quadratic or cubic). Default canvas used for rendering in Bloc (SpartaCanvas) has very good support of vector shapes and lines.

 The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
        - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
        - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted, especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement). The only responsibility Bloc has is to provide a basic infrastructure that does not put any constraints on users. Which means that if you want to have a bezier line you have to subclass BlElement, implement corresponding accessors for anchor points and override drawPathOnSpartaCanvas: in order to display you line. You can learn more about canvas by checking SpartaCanvas class comment and method comments in 'api' protocol.

Layouts, alignment, transformations are part of bloc and are available to all subclasses of BlElement.

Cheers,
Alex



On 22 February 2017 at 21:32, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:
 Hi,





 I wanted to ask about Bloc:





 1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned


 2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.


 3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)





 The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap


        - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside


        - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements





 To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.





 Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is superfast (everything is happening instantly).





 Thanks,


 Peter


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Re: How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

abergel
+1


> On Feb 22, 2017, at 6:16 PM, Kjell Godo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> it sounds very nice
>
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 13:06 Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> We could try to do it together and maybe even make a video (stream) of implementation process :)
>
> Cheers,
> Alex
>
>
>
> On 22 February 2017 at 22:02, Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Peter
>
>  I wanted to ask about Bloc:
> Thanks for your interest :)
>
> 1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned
>
> Api itself is in "final" state, however naming might be improved (changed with or without depreciations). But don't worry user-side api is already in a very good shape, at least from our perspective :)
>
> 2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
> 3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)
>  
> Exactly :) Lines are just bloc elements as anything else: buttons, text images. They can be linear, can be arcs or bezier curves (both quadratic or cubic). Default canvas used for rendering in Bloc (SpartaCanvas) has very good support of vector shapes and lines.
>
>  The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
>         - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
>         - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements
>
> It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted, especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement). The only responsibility Bloc has is to provide a basic infrastructure that does not put any constraints on users. Which means that if you want to have a bezier line you have to subclass BlElement, implement corresponding accessors for anchor points and override drawPathOnSpartaCanvas: in order to display you line. You can learn more about canvas by checking SpartaCanvas class comment and method comments in 'api' protocol.
>
> Layouts, alignment, transformations are part of bloc and are available to all subclasses of BlElement.
>
> Cheers,
> Alex
>
>
>
> On 22 February 2017 at 21:32, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  Hi,
>
>
>
>
>
>  I wanted to ask about Bloc:
>
>
>
>
>
>  1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned
>
>
>  2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
>
>
>  3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)
>
>
>
>
>
>  The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
>
>
>         - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
>
>
>         - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements
>
>
>
>
>
>  To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is superfast (everything is happening instantly).
>
>
>
>
>
>  Thanks,
>
>
>  Peter
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Moose-dev mailing list
>
>
> [hidden email]
>
>
> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Moose-dev mailing list
>
> [hidden email]
>
> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



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Re: How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas-2
In reply to this post by Aliaksei Syrel

Mind mapping (the possibility of doing software for it) was one of the themes that bring me back to Pharo/Smalltalk. I would be really interested in such project.

Cheers,

Offray


On 22/02/17 16:05, Aliaksei Syrel wrote:
We could try to do it together and maybe even make a video (stream) of implementation process :) 

Cheers,
Alex

On 22 February 2017 at 22:02, Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Peter

 I wanted to ask about Bloc:
Thanks for your interest :)

1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned

Api itself is in "final" state, however naming might be improved (changed with or without depreciations). But don't worry user-side api is already in a very good shape, at least from our perspective :)

2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)
 
Exactly :) Lines are just bloc elements as anything else: buttons, text images. They can be linear, can be arcs or bezier curves (both quadratic or cubic). Default canvas used for rendering in Bloc (SpartaCanvas) has very good support of vector shapes and lines.

 The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
        - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
        - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted, especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement). The only responsibility Bloc has is to provide a basic infrastructure that does not put any constraints on users. Which means that if you want to have a bezier line you have to subclass BlElement, implement corresponding accessors for anchor points and override drawPathOnSpartaCanvas: in order to display you line. You can learn more about canvas by checking SpartaCanvas class comment and method comments in 'api' protocol.

Layouts, alignment, transformations are part of bloc and are available to all subclasses of BlElement.

Cheers,
Alex

On 22 February 2017 at 21:32, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:
 Hi,

 I wanted to ask about Bloc:

 1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned
 2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
 3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)

 The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
        - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
        - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

 To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.

 Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is superfast (everything is happening instantly).

 Thanks,
 Peter
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Re: How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Peter Uhnak
In reply to this post by Aliaksei Syrel
I'm happy to hear that.

I understand that Bloc is low-level, but I wanted to start getting familiar with it (Roassal3 should eventually be on top of it, so I need to understand the basics anyway).

> It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework
> that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted,
> especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement).

I am not sure how am I to interpret removal of BlText and BlTextElement. Does this mean that I would have to compose characters (is there BlCharacter) by myself? (I am not sure what the complexity implications are).

But I am happy that all the things are in place, so I can slowly (weeks, months) start playing with it.

Thanks!

Peter

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:02:28PM +0100, Aliaksei Syrel wrote:

> Hi Peter
>
>  I wanted to ask about Bloc:
>
> Thanks for your interest :)
>
> 1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever
> > are planned
>
>
> Api itself is in "final" state, however naming might be improved (changed
> with or without depreciations). But don't worry user-side api is already in
> a very good shape, at least from our perspective :)
>
> 2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom,
> > ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph
> > shape, etc.
>
> 3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)
>
>
> Exactly :) Lines are just bloc elements as anything else: buttons, text
> images. They can be linear, can be arcs or bezier curves (both quadratic or
> cubic). Default canvas used for rendering in Bloc (SpartaCanvas) has very
> good support of vector shapes and lines.
>
>  The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
> >         - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
> >         - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements
>
>
> It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework
> that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted,
> especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement). The only responsibility Bloc
> has is to provide a basic infrastructure that does not put any constraints
> on users. Which means that if you want to have a bezier line you have to
> subclass BlElement, implement corresponding accessors for anchor points and
> override drawPathOnSpartaCanvas: in order to display you line. You can
> learn more about canvas by checking SpartaCanvas class comment and method
> comments in 'api' protocol.
>
> Layouts, alignment, transformations are part of bloc and are available to
> all subclasses of BlElement.
>
> Cheers,
> Alex
>
> On 22 February 2017 at 21:32, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >  Hi,
> >
> >  I wanted to ask about Bloc:
> >
> >  1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever
> > are planned
> >  2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom,
> > ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph
> > shape, etc.
> >  3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)
> >
> >  The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
> >         - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
> >         - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements
> >
> >  To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.
> >
> >  Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is
> > superfast (everything is happening instantly).
> >
> >  Thanks,
> >  Peter
> > _______________________________________________
> > Moose-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev
> >

> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev

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Re: How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by Peter Uhnak


On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 4:32 AM, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:
 Hi,

 I wanted to ask about Bloc:

 1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned
 2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
 3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)

 The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
        - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
        - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

 To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.

 Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is superfast (everything is happening instantly).



Hi Peter,

I've thought for a long time that a Mind Mapping app would be a good way to showcase Pharo 
and a side channel marketing to draw people in when they what to modify the tool.  
I'd like to collaborate in any way you like - early testing, pair programming, isolated subtasks, etc.

cheers -ben


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Re: [Pharo-dev] How ready is Bloc for a simple use-case?

stepharong
In reply to this post by Aliaksei Syrel
Hi aliaksei


I would love to start to play with Bloc to build a game with boxes.
Now is there any tutorial that I can follow to get started?

Stef



We could try to do it together and maybe even make a video (stream) of implementation process :) 

Cheers,
Alex

On 22 February 2017 at 22:02, Aliaksei Syrel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Peter

 I wanted to ask about Bloc:
Thanks for your interest :)

1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned

Api itself is in "final" state, however naming might be improved (changed with or without depreciations). But don't worry user-side api is already in a very good shape, at least from our perspective :)

2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)
 
Exactly :) Lines are just bloc elements as anything else: buttons, text images. They can be linear, can be arcs or bezier curves (both quadratic or cubic). Default canvas used for rendering in Bloc (SpartaCanvas) has very good support of vector shapes and lines.

 The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
        - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
        - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

It is very doable. Please, don't forget that Bloc is a low level framework that does not contain any widgets (existing ones will be deleted, especially BlLine, BlText and BlTextElement). The only responsibility Bloc has is to provide a basic infrastructure that does not put any constraints on users. Which means that if you want to have a bezier line you have to subclass BlElement, implement corresponding accessors for anchor points and override drawPathOnSpartaCanvas: in order to display you line. You can learn more about canvas by checking SpartaCanvas class comment and method comments in 'api' protocol.

Layouts, alignment, transformations are part of bloc and are available to all subclasses of BlElement.

Cheers,
Alex

On 22 February 2017 at 21:32, Peter Uhnak <[hidden email]> wrote:
 Hi,

 I wanted to ask about Bloc:

 1) how stable is the API? e.g. if some overhaul changes to unify/whatever are planned
 2) I saw in the techtalk that you can align elements (to center, bottom, ...), however is that possible with lines? Lines have to rotate, morph shape, etc.
 3) Are non-straight lines possible? (e.g. bezier, arc)

 The idea for me is to make a simple mindmap
        - elements with some text, icons, math symbols inside
        - connectors (non-straight lines) between elements

 To me (apart from the lines) it seems like it should be already doable.

 Also either my (Morphic) Pharo is really slow, or Bloc (in the video) is superfast (everything is happening instantly).

 Thanks,
 Peter
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