How to Implement a Website
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Hi. I'm a Seaside/Smalltalk newbie. I've studied a
number of tutorials and I've read quite a few blogs about Seaside. But I am
still puzzled about how to implement a traditional website consisting of a
number of webpages that are linked together (eg, homepage linked to "about us",
homepage linked to "products", homepage linked to "contact us", etc.). You
navigate these webpages by clicking on the various menu selections. But how do
you implement that in Seaside?
Do you create a component for each webpage with its own
renderContentOn: message? If so, how do you invoke a webpage component when you
click on one of the menu anchors (eg, html anchor callback: [???] with: 'about
us'.). Is this even the correct approach using Seaside?
Please forgive my newbie ignorance.
Thanks,
Richard
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> Do you create a component for each webpage with its own renderContentOn:
> message? If so, how do you invoke a webpage component when you click on one > of the menu anchors (eg, html anchor callback: [???] with: 'about us'.). Is > this even the correct approach using Seaside? You will have a hard time building a traditional web site with Seaside. Seaside's target is building dynamic Web Application. It is possible though. The Pier Content Management System that is built on top of Seaside and available from SqueakMap allows you to compose such a site, without writing a single line of code. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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I thought one of the advantages of Seaside was being able to do away with
HTML templates and to generate HTML programmatically. If a particular webpage consists of a mix of HTML (from the traditional website) and a dynamic web app, are you supposed to generate HTML just for this webpage? How do you get your website to serve up *both* the traditional webpages and the Seaside app? (I saw a blog that explained how to setup a virtual http host and a Seaside server in Apache2, but I am unclear about the mechanism by which traditional webpages and the dynamic app coexist.) Thanks, Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lukas Renggli" <[hidden email]> To: "Seaside - general discussion" <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:14 AM Subject: Re: [Seaside] How to Implement a Website >> Do you create a component for each webpage with its own renderContentOn: >> message? If so, how do you invoke a webpage component when you click on >> one >> of the menu anchors (eg, html anchor callback: [???] with: 'about us'.). >> Is >> this even the correct approach using Seaside? > > You will have a hard time building a traditional web site with > Seaside. Seaside's target is building dynamic Web Application. It is > possible though. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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> I thought one of the advantages of Seaside was being able to do away with
> HTML templates and to generate HTML programmatically. Yes, but programmatic HTML generation does not scale for static web site, in my opinion. For dynamic web applications this is clearly an advantage. > If a particular > webpage consists of a mix of HTML (from the traditional website) and a > dynamic web app, are you supposed to generate HTML just for this webpage? Pier was designed for that. It allows to combine static XHTML (generated from a simple wiki syntax or using plain XHTML) and dynamic Seaside components. I might be biased here, as I am the author of Pier. > How do you get your website to serve up *both* the traditional webpages and > the Seaside app? (I saw a blog that explained how to setup a virtual http > host and a Seaside server in Apache2, but I am unclear about the mechanism > by which traditional webpages and the dynamic app coexist.) There are certainly other possibilities. Basically you can use the following expression to emit some static blocks of XHTML. I know of very few use-cases though. html html: '<div>...</div>' Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: How to Implement a Website
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In reply to this post by Richard Eng
Hi Richard,
a couple of threads ago ("Best way to embedding Seaside in static HTML?") was discussed about exactly this concern you have, may you want to take a look at it. With Seaside the html is always a consequence of your Seaside application so you will have to forget the approach of using it as a cause (of a page). Also the experience of developing those applications will be *a lot* like developing desktop applications (developing the causes of the html). That is one of the key advantages of Seaside because it will be tempting you (developer) to deploy desktop like applications that run in web browsers. Said that, you can allways do "static windows" on desktop applications. In seaside you can do that making components that render it's content in the canvas. The problem of this is that is not *that* efficient nor escalable as an apache serving files. To make the static efficient you can manage apache to serve static content (html files and even resources like jpg, png, etc) and embbed (or redirect) when proper your Seaside application (that you may want it look the same with CSS). There is a blog post in the blog of Boris that will give you technical details on how this is archieved (mostly apache conf stuff). Hope this helps, cheers, Sebastian Sastre > -----Mensaje original----- > De: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre > de Richard K Eng II > Enviado el: Viernes, 29 de Junio de 2007 08:02 > Para: Seaside - general discussion > Asunto: Re: [Seaside] How to Implement a Website > > I thought one of the advantages of Seaside was being able to > do away with HTML templates and to generate HTML > programmatically. If a particular webpage consists of a mix > of HTML (from the traditional website) and a dynamic web app, > are you supposed to generate HTML just for this webpage? > How do you get your website to serve up *both* the > traditional webpages and the Seaside app? (I saw a blog that > explained how to setup a virtual http host and a Seaside > server in Apache2, but I am unclear about the mechanism by > which traditional webpages and the dynamic app coexist.) > > Thanks, > Richard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lukas Renggli" <[hidden email]> > To: "Seaside - general discussion" > <[hidden email]> > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:14 AM > Subject: Re: [Seaside] How to Implement a Website > > > >> Do you create a component for each webpage with its own > renderContentOn: > >> message? If so, how do you invoke a webpage component when > you click on > >> one > >> of the menu anchors (eg, html anchor callback: [???] with: > 'about us'.). > >> Is > >> this even the correct approach using Seaside? > > > > You will have a hard time building a traditional web site with > > Seaside. Seaside's target is building dynamic Web Application. It is > > possible though. > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Okay, as a Seaside/Squeak newbie, please forgive my stupid questions...
How do I embed or redirect to a Seaside app from within static html content? I tried to find Boris' blog post concerning this but I was unsuccessful. I looked at "Best way to embedding Seaside in static HTML?" but the iframe technique seems problematic. The rest of the thread is over my head. Is there not a "best practice" recommendation for how to mix static html and Seaside components together? This would seem to me to be a common (the most common!) way to develop a website. As I understand it, you want static html to be served up by Apache for performance reasons, and Seaside for the actual application (business logic). And you want the Seaside app embedded within the static html content so that you have a consistent look and feel for the entire website. This has to be the canonical architecture for a website/web app, doesn't it? Thanks. Regards, Richard On 6/29/07 8:18 AM, "Sebastian Sastre" <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Richard, > > a couple of threads ago ("Best way to embedding Seaside in static > HTML?") was discussed about exactly this concern you have, may you want to > take a look at it. > > With Seaside the html is always a consequence of your Seaside > application so you will have to forget the approach of using it as a cause > (of a page). Also the experience of developing those applications will be *a > lot* like developing desktop applications (developing the causes of the > html). That is one of the key advantages of Seaside because it will be > tempting you (developer) to deploy desktop like applications that run in web > browsers. > > Said that, you can allways do "static windows" on desktop > applications. In seaside you can do that making components that render it's > content in the canvas. The problem of this is that is not *that* efficient > nor escalable as an apache serving files. > > To make the static efficient you can manage apache to serve static > content (html files and even resources like jpg, png, etc) and embbed (or > redirect) when proper your Seaside application (that you may want it look > the same with CSS). > > There is a blog post in the blog of Boris that will give you > technical details on how this is archieved (mostly apache conf stuff). > > Hope this helps, cheers, > > Sebastian Sastre > > >> -----Mensaje original----- >> De: [hidden email] >> [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre >> de Richard K Eng II >> Enviado el: Viernes, 29 de Junio de 2007 08:02 >> Para: Seaside - general discussion >> Asunto: Re: [Seaside] How to Implement a Website >> >> I thought one of the advantages of Seaside was being able to >> do away with HTML templates and to generate HTML >> programmatically. If a particular webpage consists of a mix >> of HTML (from the traditional website) and a dynamic web app, >> are you supposed to generate HTML just for this webpage? >> How do you get your website to serve up *both* the >> traditional webpages and the Seaside app? (I saw a blog that >> explained how to setup a virtual http host and a Seaside >> server in Apache2, but I am unclear about the mechanism by >> which traditional webpages and the dynamic app coexist.) >> >> Thanks, >> Richard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lukas Renggli" <[hidden email]> >> To: "Seaside - general discussion" >> <[hidden email]> >> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:14 AM >> Subject: Re: [Seaside] How to Implement a Website >> >> >>>> Do you create a component for each webpage with its own >> renderContentOn: >>>> message? If so, how do you invoke a webpage component when >> you click on >>>> one >>>> of the menu anchors (eg, html anchor callback: [???] with: >> 'about us'.). >>>> Is >>>> this even the correct approach using Seaside? >>> >>> You will have a hard time building a traditional web site with >>> Seaside. Seaside's target is building dynamic Web Application. It is >>> possible though. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Seaside mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: How to Implement a Website
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Richard Eng wrote:
> Okay, as a Seaside/Squeak newbie, please forgive my stupid questions... > > How do I embed or redirect to a Seaside app from within static html content? > I tried to find Boris' blog post concerning this but I was unsuccessful. > > I looked at "Best way to embedding Seaside in static HTML?" but the iframe > technique seems problematic. The rest of the thread is over my head. > > Is there not a "best practice" recommendation for how to mix static html and > Seaside components together? This would seem to me to be a common (the most > common!) way to develop a website. As I understand it, you want static html > to be served up by Apache for performance reasons, and Seaside for the > actual application (business logic). > > And you want the Seaside app embedded within the static html content so that > you have a consistent look and feel for the entire website. This has to be > the canonical architecture for a website/web app, doesn't it? I too think this would be a nice feature. It seems that it would be nice to be able to generate an html page which could be served by Apache or web server of choice which contains the static html (parts) of a web page with possibly a JS controller for making the call and inserting the dynamic (Seaside) parts. This would seeming help in a couple of ways. Offloading truly static pieces to a high performance web server, static html, images, css, etc. But allow the truly dynamic web app part to be seaside. This would seemingly help performance of a Seaside site, and provide a potentially reasonable way to implement a RESTful/bookmarkable interface to a Seaside site. I am not yet learned enough to understand all the implications, if and where it would limit are cause problems in a Seaside web app. Or to implement a best practices way of doing this. But I am interesting in learning. I believe this is a good discussion to have. If there are issues or problems cause by such an idea, hopefully they will be disclosed. If not maybe an implementation come for at some point in the future. Just some thoughts. Jimmie _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: How to Implement a Website
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In reply to this post by Richard Eng
First rule of seaside club is to never optimize prematurely. Second rule of seaside club is to never optimize prematurely. In all seriousness one can already serve all resources with a plain web server, just dump them to disk when deploying and change resource URL on your root component to that location. Works great and let's you develop without apache, manage all files in source control system of choice etc. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Jimmie Houchin-3
> It seems that it would be nice to be able to generate an html page which
> could be served by Apache or web server of choice which contains the > static html (parts) of a web page with possibly a JS controller for > making the call and inserting the dynamic (Seaside) parts. Nice idea. Attached you find a ZIP Archive that embeds a Seaside application into a static HTML site. For now it only handles links. Whenever a link is clicked it triggers a XmlHttpRequest in the background. If anybody wants to use form elements, this has to be implemented first. Obviously, Ajax stuff should be avoided in the application. Cheers, Lukas PS: If you want to try the attached code you need to make sure that you serve static HTML and the Seaside application from the same server, in my case I have the static files at http://localhost/resources/seaside.html and the Seaside application is served from http://localhost/seaside/examples/counter. This is necessary because of security restrictions in Web Browsers. -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Ehh, and the zip archive is here ...
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
seaside.zip (32K) |
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In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
Hi,
cool stuff :) Just tried it on seasidehosting... first display is ok but hitting links doesn't refresh... http://cdrick.seasidehosting.st/resources/seaside.html http://cdrick.seasidehosting.st/resources/seasidemulti.html first Get is ok, but then when hitting links, it appends _k and _s to seaside.html instead of seaside/examples/counter (I think)... GET http://cdrick.seasidehosting.st/seaside/examples/counter (77ms)prototype.js (line 1044) GET http://cdrick.seasidehosting.st/resources/seaside.html?_k=DKyPjZxx&_s=ZHJrwnwfWIgbMwzl&1 (43ms) GET http://cdrick.seasidehosting.st/resources/seaside.html?_k=DKyPjZxx&_s=ZHJrwnwfWIgbMwzl&1 (42ms) Have I something wrong ? Thanks Cédrick > > Nice idea. > > Attached you find a ZIP Archive that embeds a Seaside application into > a static HTML site. For now it only handles links. Whenever a link is > clicked it triggers a XmlHttpRequest in the background. If anybody > wants to use form elements, this has to be implemented first. > Obviously, Ajax stuff should be avoided in the application. > > Cheers, > Lukas > > PS: If you want to try the attached code you need to make sure that > you serve static HTML and the Seaside application from the same > server, in my case I have the static files at > http://localhost/resources/seaside.html and the Seaside application is > served from http://localhost/seaside/examples/counter. This is > necessary because of security restrictions in Web Browsers. Hi, _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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> cool stuff :)
Attached you find a version of the JavaScript that also handles basic forms. Still far from perfect, but it sort of works with most apps now. > Just tried it on seasidehosting... first display is ok but hitting > links doesn't refresh... You need to make sure that the Seaside application generates full absolute URLs. Else Web Browsers silently drop the requests because of security concerns. In your case you need to specify 'cdrick.seasidehosting.st' as the server hostname in the config of your application. HTH, Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: How to Implement a Website
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In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
Lukas Renggli wrote:
>> It seems that it would be nice to be able to generate an html page which >> could be served by Apache or web server of choice which contains the >> static html (parts) of a web page with possibly a JS controller for >> making the call and inserting the dynamic (Seaside) parts. > > Nice idea. > > Attached you find a ZIP Archive that embeds a Seaside application into > a static HTML site. For now it only handles links. Whenever a link is > clicked it triggers a XmlHttpRequest in the background. If anybody > wants to use form elements, this has to be implemented first. > Obviously, Ajax stuff should be avoided in the application. Thanks Lukas, I'll look at giving it a try later, hopefully this evening. Jimmie _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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