How to convert a 1.4 Pharo Seaside image so that it will work with seasidehosting.st

Mark Andrew wrote:
>[snip a lot of things he tried to build an image for Seasidehosting]

The reason is simple:
 - Seasidehosting has a custom made VM that only allows you
   to play in a sandbox
   Looks like it is too hard for the seasidehosting crew to
   run it on a new one/or customize a more recent VM

 - Pharo image is now much newer and saved by CogVM - so it can
   not be used and one has to look for Squeak

 - meanhwile Seaside switched to Zinc (since Pharo did it)
   and nobody really cares on "Seaside for Squeak"
   that makes it hard to run a recent Seaside on Squeak
   (Zinc loading problems ...)

Maybe the community:
 - is able to provide an Squeak-Seaside image that is able to
   run on seasidehosting and that could be made available there

 - the VM maintainers are able to help to customize a more
   recent one to support the sandbox model of seasidehosting so
   one can use a Pharo-Seaside image and follow recent developments

Stef wrote:
>pay attention seaside hosting is old and I think that it will be >discontinued.

Sad - it is/was a nice way to showcase seaside stuff
to other people.

http://jquerymobile.seasidehosting.st/
http://twitterbootstrap.seasidehosting.st/

>you could run the equivalent of seaside hosting but on your machine

The problem: not everybody has an own machine. How can we expect
people to use Smalltalk/Seaside if there is no possibility to
start with small budget and grow afterwards.

There are many other technologies out there that offer free hosting
(in the "cloud"). It makes it even harder to choose something exotic
like Seaside.

Thanks
Torsten

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Torsten,

I would think that Heroku buildpacks[1] would be a good (modern) direction to go....there's a buildpack for Dart.

Heroku uses git to deploy code to the buildpack, but since we can use git with Smalltalk[2], now, that shouldn't be a barrier.

Presumably one could set up a buildpack for Pharo or Squeak and/or Seaside ... if I weren't so busy with git/Metacello (the enabling technologies) I'd jump on the buildpacks right now ...

For awhile there it looked like CloudFoundry might be a good solution from VMware, but VMware isn't going to go into the hosting business itself ... which puts us back to searching for a hosting service ....

buildpack for Seaside might be a cool project for the camp smalltalk/seaside sprint at ESUG...

I've already adapted Lukas' builder for running squeak/pharo in travis ci[3] using git-based repos and Metacello so I can't imagine that buildpacks would involve much more than that, although I haven't looked into the details Heroku buildpacks yet ...

Dale

[1] http://blog.heroku.com/archives/2012/7/17/buildpacks/
[2] https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree
[3] https://github.com/dalehenrich/builderCI

----- Original Message -----
| From: "Torsten Bergmann" <[hidden email]>
| To: [hidden email]
| Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 11:35:53 PM
| Subject: [Seaside] How to convert a 1.4 Pharo Seaside image so that it will work with seasidehosting.st
|
| Mark Andrew wrote:
| >[snip a lot of things he tried to build an image for Seasidehosting]
|
| The reason is simple:
|  - Seasidehosting has a custom made VM that only allows you
|    to play in a sandbox
|    Looks like it is too hard for the seasidehosting crew to
|    run it on a new one/or customize a more recent VM
|
|  - Pharo image is now much newer and saved by CogVM - so it can
|    not be used and one has to look for Squeak
|
|  - meanhwile Seaside switched to Zinc (since Pharo did it)
|    and nobody really cares on "Seaside for Squeak"
|    that makes it hard to run a recent Seaside on Squeak
|    (Zinc loading problems ...)
|
| Maybe the community:
|  - is able to provide an Squeak-Seaside image that is able to
|    run on seasidehosting and that could be made available there
|
|  - the VM maintainers are able to help to customize a more
|    recent one to support the sandbox model of seasidehosting so
|    one can use a Pharo-Seaside image and follow recent developments
|
| Stef wrote:
| >pay attention seaside hosting is old and I think that it will be
| >>discontinued.
|
| Sad - it is/was a nice way to showcase seaside stuff
| to other people.
|
| http://jquerymobile.seasidehosting.st/
| http://twitterbootstrap.seasidehosting.st/
|
| >you could run the equivalent of seaside hosting but on your machine
|
| The problem: not everybody has an own machine. How can we expect
| people to use Smalltalk/Seaside if there is no possibility to
| start with small budget and grow afterwards.
|
| There are many other technologies out there that offer free hosting
| (in the "cloud"). It makes it even harder to choose something exotic
| like Seaside.
|
| Thanks
| Torsten
|
| _______________________________________________
| seaside mailing list
| [hidden email]
| http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
|
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OK, I'm off to Amazon to get myself a microserver in the Elastic Compute Cloud. Wish me luck.

Shame about seasidehosting, I added a note to the (otherwise excellent) seaside book, which was what sent me on this journey of discovery in the first place ;-)

I must say I am very impressed by the feedback I have got here, from people who I would have thought have much more pressing calls on their time. Thanks to everyone. I doubt that you have heard the last of me.

Mark


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Hi Mark. 



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Mark,

On 01 Aug 2012, at 19:51, Mark Andrew <[hidden email]> wrote:

> OK, I'm off to Amazon to get myself a microserver in the Elastic Compute Cloud. Wish me luck.

If you have basic Linux skills, that won't be a problem: an AWS EC2 micro instance can get you quite far for just $10 a month (first year is free). I am running multiple load balanced instances as described here:

        http://zn.stfx.eu/zn/index.html#livedemo

If you need help, just ask.

Sven

PS: the only downside of a micro instance is that it is CPU throttled (once you stress it 100% for more than a minute or so), not a problem for a normal load, but it shows up in benchmarks as quite a surprise.

--
Sven Van Caekenberghe
http://stfx.eu
Smalltalk is the Red Pill




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Laurent and Romain updated that VM for the Smallharbour project
(http://www.smallharbour.org/). The idea was to upgrade seasidehosting
and make it work with much newer VMs/Images.

The project is dead (i think) but the code is still there.

http://www.smallharbour.org/
http://www.alpha.smallharbour.org/

> The reason is simple:
>   - Seasidehosting has a custom made VM that only allows you
>     to play in a sandbox
>     Looks like it is too hard for the seasidehosting crew to
>     run it on a new one/or customize a more recent VM
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Mark,

I am from the school that wants to do eveything using command line only, not running a GUI on a server ;-)

For starters, have a look at this:

        http://stfx.eu/pharo-server/

You can then test on localhost.

All you then have to do is set up a security group allowing traffic on port 1701 and it should serve pages externally.

I also don't like images saved with running servers (like Seaside is often used), I rather have nothing running in the image and start the server(s) manually in the startup script.

But there are many ways to go about this and YMMV.

Sven

PS: If you have a 64bit Linux, you need to add 32-bit support, as in

        apt-get install ia32-libs

For Ubuntu

On 01 Aug 2012, at 22:35, Mark Andrew <[hidden email]> wrote:

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On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:35 AM, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
There is a server adapter for WebClient [1]. We actually do fix Squeak
issues where reported and possible [2]. However as Pharo and Squeak
diverge more it becomes harder to support both with the same code
base. We're already running into troubles supporting multiple Pharo
versions. In the long run Squeak versions for the corresponding Pharo
implementations will probably have to be created.

 [1] http://www.squeaksource.com/WebClient.html
 [2] http://code.google.com/p/seaside/issues/detail?id=650

Cheers
Philippe
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I have found seasidehosting.st really useful for demoing projects such as http://jquerymobile.seasidehosting.st, http://twitterbootstrap.seasidehosting.st and http://troller.seasidehosting.st
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On 03/08/12 05:51, Nick Ager wrote:
> It's a real shame if there isn't a site available where we can demo
> projects.
>

You can try Smallharbour. Its goal was to replace Seasidehosting.
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Looked interesting, tried to register, got this :-(

>thisContext

>[:response | (TelnetProtocolError protocolInstance: self) signal] in SMTPClient(ProtocolClient)>>che...etc...selfa SMTPClientresponse'452 4.4.5 >Insufficient disk space; try again later'


Incidentally I am now the proud owner of a micro Server on EC2. Pretty
straightforward if you know your way around Linux and free for the
first year, but obviously a pretty big hurdle if you "just" want to
get your seaside app out there.

Thanks again for all your help everybody.

Mark


On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Francois Stephany
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For DEMO hosting - just use your own local PC.
grab a free account with dyndns.org or other service.  Point that to your external IP, setup some port forwarding.
Then run your site on your local PC.

this has the added benefit that you do it once, its easy to demo other projects.



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