How to jump start a VisualWorks veteran?

Every time, I read about GST over the years, I love what I see. And I go to play with it. And it never has enough pressure to move beyond short play.

That may be about to change. I've been asked to help put a minimal web interface (but will grow over time of course) on an embedded linux board (runs some flavor of debian on an arm chip, still getting particulars, has enough juice to host gcc locally tho). I'm not a huge web guy (maybe some day). I know there's Iliad for GST, not clear what the status of Seaside is for it. So i'm looking for some feedback on how easy this will be to do. I'm of course familiar with Smalltalk. What I'd love it is if there was a sort of "oh, so you're a long time VW guy, and you know debian linux pretty well, but not that familiar with the nuances of GST yet and doing a web UI in it? well here's your recipe..."

I thought I'd try to use the Iliad tutorial (http://doc.iliadproject.org/#A-work-in-progress) to have a go at it. First I used synaptic to download and install gnu-smalltalk and gnu-smalltalk-browser debian packages (along with prereqs of course, version 3.2-1 of each).

Then I tried what the tutorial suggested:

gst-package --download grease -t ~/.st

But I get the following in my terminal:

Object: nil error: Invalid value nil: object not indexable
SystemExceptions.NotIndexable(Exception)>>pass (ExcHandling.st:385)
optimized [] in UndefinedObject>>executeStatements (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:1190)
SystemExceptions.NotIndexable(Exception)>>activateHandler: (ExcHandling.st:516)
SystemExceptions.NotIndexable(Exception)>>signal (ExcHandling.st:254)
SystemExceptions.NotIndexable class(SystemExceptions.InvalidValue class)>>signalOn: (SysExcept.st:437)
UndefinedObject(Object)>>checkIndexableBounds: (Object.st:792)
UndefinedObject(Object)>>at: (Object.st:858)
File class(FilePath class)>>isAbsolute: (FilePath.st:173)
File class(FilePath class)>>fullNameFor: (FilePath.st:189)
File class>>name: (File.st:113)
PackageFiles>>addURL: (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:322)
PkgInstall(PackageCommand)>>addFile: (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:591)
optimized [] in PackageCommand>>runOnAll: (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:602)
OrderedCollection(SequenceableCollection)>>do: (SeqCollect.st:812)
PkgInstall(PackageCommand)>>runOnAll: (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:603)
[] in PkgInstall(Command)>>executeOnAll: (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:529)
BlockClosure>>on:do: (BlkClosure.st:193)
CurrentCommand class(DynamicVariable class)>>use:during: (SysExcept.st:255)
PkgInstall(Command)>>executeOnAll: (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:523)
PkgDownload>>runOnAll: (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:559)
[] in PkgDownload(Command)>>executeOnAll: (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:529)
BlockClosure>>on:do: (BlkClosure.st:193)
CurrentCommand class(DynamicVariable class)>>use:during: (SysExcept.st:255)
PkgDownload(Command)>>executeOnAll: (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:523)
PackageManager>>run (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:1177)
optimized [] in UndefinedObject>>executeStatements (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:1184)
BlockClosure>>on:do: (BlkClosure.st:193)
UndefinedObject>>executeStatements (/usr/share/gnu-smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:1186)
gst-package: Invalid value nil: object not indexable

Hoping it's something easy to fix. Looking forward to learning more about GST and using it. For now, I'll go stay up late reading the doc without the benefit of actually doing what it says and hope for a fast answer.

I am curious what the implications of writing a commercial end user app with this are. Obviously the company is comfortable building (L)GPL software, or they wouldn't be looking at embedded Linux boxes. Does a user app written in GST have to be made publicly available to end customers? Or just mods to GST?

TIA

--
Travis Griggs
Objologist
"An idea, like a ghost, must be spoken to a little before it will explain itself." - Charles Dickens


_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

I'll reply more completely in a few hours or at most on Monday.  In
the meanwhile, this is a quick answer.  3.2 didn't have support for
https and github.com (where Iliad is hosted) moved everything to
https.  So you need to run 3.2.3 or later in order to download Iliad.

Luckily, 3.2.3 is available on sid
(http://packages.debian.org/unstable/interpreters/gnu-smalltalk).  If
you enable the sid repository, you'll get a 3.2.3 version that can
download Iliad.

I'll also release 3.2.4 on Monday.

Paolo

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

Travis Griggs-4 wrote

I am curious what the implications of writing a commercial end user app with this are. Obviously the company is comfortable building (L)GPL software, or they wouldn't be looking at embedded Linux boxes. Does a user app written in GST have to be made publicly available to end customers? Or just mods to GST?

AFAIK, the apps written using GST and Iliad don't have to use a specific license. You may write closed source apps using them. One example is the Odyssey CMS by ObjectFusion:

http://www.objectfusion.fr/pages/Odyssey-CMS

Hello,

Le 19/03/2011 10:30, Paolo Bonzini a écrit :
> I'll reply more completely in a few hours or at most on Monday.  In
> the meanwhile, this is a quick answer.  3.2 didn't have support for
> https and github.com (where Iliad is hosted) moved everything to
> https.  So you need to run 3.2.3 or later in order to download Iliad.
>
> Luckily, 3.2.3 is available on sid
> (http://packages.debian.org/unstable/interpreters/gnu-smalltalk).  If
> you enable the sid repository, you'll get a 3.2.3 version that can
> download Iliad.

Unfortunately, it does not work either. I get the same error. (Besides,
the unstable package won't work on stable because it depends on libgmp10).

git version 3.2.3-96ea7ed works.

> I'll also release 3.2.4 on Monday.

Great.

Thomas

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:09, Thomas Girard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Unfortunately, it does not work either. I get the same error. (Besides,
> the unstable package won't work on stable because it depends on libgmp10).

That's probably because the version of gnutls in stable is too old, too.

> git version 3.2.3-96ea7ed works.

Cool!

Regarding license, modifications to the VM have to be made public.
Bascically that's everything written in C including bindings to other
libraries if written in C.  But Smalltalk code is specially exempted
from any GPL compatibility requirement.

Paolo

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

On 03/19/2011 12:08 PM, ZuLuuuuuu wrote:
> AFAIK, the apps written using GST and Iliad don't have to use a specific
> license. You may write closed source apps using them. One example is the
> Odyssey CMS by ObjectFusion:
>
> http://www.objectfusion.fr/pages/Odyssey-CMS

It does not matter whether Odyssey CMS is or isn't closed source.  It is
simply working on ObjectFusion's servers so it is never distributed.

Paolo

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

On Mar 21, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Paolo Bonzini wrote:

> On 03/19/2011 12:08 PM, ZuLuuuuuu wrote:
>> AFAIK, the apps written using GST and Iliad don't have to use a specific
>> license. You may write closed source apps using them. One example is the
>> Odyssey CMS by ObjectFusion:
>>
>> http://www.objectfusion.fr/pages/Odyssey-CMS
>
> It does not matter whether Odyssey CMS is or isn't closed source.  It is simply working on ObjectFusion's servers so it is never distributed.

But if it were distributed? What would be the story then?

--
Travis Griggs
Objologist
"I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward." - Henry David Thoreau




_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

Paolo Bonzini-2 wrote

It does not matter whether Odyssey CMS is or isn't closed source.  It is
simply working on ObjectFusion's servers so it is never distributed.

Oh, I didn't know that, thanks...

On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 19:45, Travis Griggs <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's how I wrote in the other message. :)  Smalltalk code is specially
exempted from any GPL compatibility requirement.

Paolo

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

Hello,

I installed 3.2.4 today but I still get "object not indexable" error. I did "make uninstall" inside 3.2.3 folder before installing 3.2.4:

$ gst-package --download grease -t ~/.st
Object: nil error: Invalid value nil: object not indexable
SystemExceptions.NotIndexable(Exception)>>pass (ExcHandling.st:385)
optimized [] in UndefinedObject>>executeStatements (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:1195)
SystemExceptions.NotIndexable(Exception)>>activateHandler: (ExcHandling.st:516)
SystemExceptions.NotIndexable(Exception)>>signal (ExcHandling.st:254)
SystemExceptions.NotIndexable class(SystemExceptions.InvalidValue class)>>signalOn: (SysExcept.st:409)
UndefinedObject(Object)>>checkIndexableBounds: (Object.st:792)
UndefinedObject(Object)>>at: (Object.st:858)
File class(FilePath class)>>isAbsolute: (FilePath.st:171)
File class(FilePath class)>>fullNameFor: (FilePath.st:187)
File class>>name: (File.st:112)
PackageFiles>>addURL: (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:322)
PkgInstall(PackageCommand)>>addFile: (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:591)
optimized [] in PackageCommand>>runOnAll: (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:602)
OrderedCollection>>do: (OrderColl.st:68)
PkgInstall(PackageCommand)>>runOnAll: (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:603)
[] in PkgInstall(Command)>>executeOnAll: (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:529)
BlockClosure>>ensure: (BlkClosure.st:269)
ProcessVariable>>use:during: (ProcEnv.st:74)
CurrentCommand class(DynamicVariable class)>>use:during: (DynVariable.st:55)
PkgInstall(Command)>>executeOnAll: (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:523)
PkgDownload>>runOnAll: (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:559)
[] in PkgDownload(Command)>>executeOnAll: (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:529)
BlockClosure>>ensure: (BlkClosure.st:269)
ProcessVariable>>use:during: (ProcEnv.st:74)
CurrentCommand class(DynamicVariable class)>>use:during: (DynVariable.st:55)
PkgDownload(Command)>>executeOnAll: (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:523)
PackageManager>>run (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:1182)
optimized [] in UndefinedObject>>executeStatements (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:1189)
BlockClosure>>on:do: (BlkClosure.st:193)
UndefinedObject>>executeStatements (/usr/local/share/smalltalk/scripts/Package.st:1191)
gst-package: Invalid value nil: object not indexable

On 03/22/2011 10:54 PM, ZuLuuuuuu wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I installed 3.2.4 today but I still get "object not indexable" error. I did
> "make uninstall" inside 3.2.3 folder before installing 3.2.4:

Do you have gnutls (binary and development packages) installed?

Paolo

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

Paolo Bonzini-2 wrote

Do you have gnutls (binary and development packages) installed?

Ok, after installing the development packages of gnutls, the problem is gone.

Hello,

Le 23/03/2011 10:05, Paolo Bonzini a écrit :
>> I installed 3.2.4 today but I still get "object not indexable" error.
>> I did
>> "make uninstall" inside 3.2.3 folder before installing 3.2.4:
>
> Do you have gnutls (binary and development packages) installed?

Rebuilding 3.2.4 package, I realize that gnutls-wrapper does *not* get
installed. Hence the issue on Debian. Sorry about that.

Thomas

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 22:21, Thomas Girard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I installed 3.2.4 today but I still get "object not indexable" error.
>>> I did
>>> "make uninstall" inside 3.2.3 folder before installing 3.2.4:
>>
>> Do you have gnutls (binary and development packages) installed?
>
> Rebuilding 3.2.4 package, I realize that gnutls-wrapper does *not* get
> installed. Hence the issue on Debian. Sorry about that.

np, I think both Travis and Canol were using the tarball.

Also, you may need a "rm -rf ~/.st/cache" before attempting to
download packages again.

Paolo

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk