I think amber needs equivalent of jsfiddle

With simpler IDE (not the classical Smalltalk browser), powered
basically by incremental search.

Or so I think.

Not only for showing bugs, but also for promoting Smalltalk - it would
be very easy to make it up on such a thing and spread.

Do you think the same or do I miss something?

Herby

Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> writes:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean :)

Nico

--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

I assume it will have a search box for methods names and class names
which displays incrementally the matches as you type.

Yes, that might be useful...

--Hannes

On 6/18/12, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 4:05 AM, Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:
> With simpler IDE (not the classical Smalltalk browser), powered basically by
> incremental search.
>
> Or so I think.
>
> Not only for showing bugs, but also for promoting Smalltalk - it would be
> very easy to make it up on such a thing and spread.
>
> Do you think the same or do I miss something?

Check out the Cæsar browser that was written for Clamato:

http://clamato.net/examples/tutorial.html

It's pretty much what you're talking about.

Colin

"H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]> writes:

> I assume it will have a search box for methods names and class names
> which displays incrementally the matches as you type.
>
> Yes, that might be useful...

Yes, it would.

Nico

--
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

On the topic of simplified browsers - Here is a super stripped down
demo I have been prototyping for a st browser intended for use on
anroid/ios devices (in other words it looks better on phone than on
desktop): http://jsfiddle.net/RZ8f4/10/embedded/result/

-shaun

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 1:24 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

[hidden email] wrote:
> Herby Vojčík<[hidden email]>  writes:
>
> I'm not sure I understand what you mean :)

Basically, really something like jsfiddle for amber:

- You are presented with a few panes for editing the simple app and preview
- You can configure the version of amber, etc.
- You can edit the html page
- You can edit Smalltalk code for your simple app (that is, a package
with your code only)
   - but not in classical IDE (it too heavy), but in something simpler,
much akin to jsfiddle's edit pane for .js file*
- You can save it and share it.
   - optionally you can fork it and edit your version to "reply" someone
else's one.

Herby

* Here I had two ideas:
1. Make all code of a package you write your code in available in one
scrollable pane, like a file. Inside it, there would be the actual edit
panes for class definitions and method definitions. A bit like a column
in a spreadsheet.
2. Have the field with partial word search ("Al >> show" filters all
methods of Animal and Aluminium that contain letters s,h,o,w in that
order (showHead as well as sayChow)).
3. A big helper to embrace human analog pattern (we're good with
movements, fast as well as gentle; think of tuning a radio station with
the actual knob) using the scroller, is a big titlebox showing
(package), Class, category and method name of the actual one visible at
the top. So you can scroll fast to find the class, the slower to find
the category, than slower to get what you look for.

I thought of something like this
http://apps.herby.sk/stample/devel.html
embedded as an edit pane in a "fiddle js" type of page.

Herby

shaun gilchrist wrote:

This looks good, just one big scoll list for all classes with their methods.

I assume the idea is that you see 5 methods at a time (each method has
a 'wheel').

For the display of each method there is an AJAX call...

A good building block, it leaves a lot of real screen estate on the
right hand side.

The OnePaneBrowser could be made as a 'slide-out', like the flaps in Squeak.
Or just the setup of HTML, CSS, Code and result as in jsfiddle

--Hannes

On 6/20/12, Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:

H. Hirzel wrote:
> This looks good, just one big scoll list for all classes with their methods.
>
> I assume the idea is that you see 5 methods at a time (each method has
> a 'wheel').

No, in fact the idea was, textareas or whatever used to edit methods,
classes etc. are always full (resized as needed), and as you scroll
through the whole pane with the scroller, the "wheel" up there updates
so you see where you actually are and also +/-2 items. That way it is
much more like tuning in an analog wheel - you can scroll fast to find a
class or slower to "tune" the category / method.

Of course, classes should be done alphbetically, for now they are
hierarchically, because I inherited (read: abused) the Exporter to make
the html.

> For the display of each method there is an AJAX call...

Now it simply uses actual amber state...

> A good building block, it leaves a lot of real screen estate on the
> right hand side.

Exactly as in jsfiddle, so you can run the preview there.

Interesting view...

How about a link at the top of each of the summary columns theat when clicked gave you the scrollable list of items for the selected column ... that would be cool ... I think:

  click on OnePaneHtmlExporter to get list in bottom pane of classes in that package.
  click on a class on the list, you see method categories
  click on a categorie get the method list
  click on a method get the scrolling source view (as you're showing)


This would preserve the nice navigation you get from 5 pane browser in your compact single pane view...

Dale

----- Original Message -----
| From: "Herby Vojčík" <[hidden email]>
| To: [hidden email]
| Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:54:41 AM
| Subject: Re: [amber-lang] I think amber needs equivalent of jsfiddle
|
| I thought of something like this
| http://apps.herby.sk/stample/devel.html
| embedded as an edit pane in a "fiddle js" type of page.
|
| Herby
|
| shaun gilchrist wrote:
| > On the topic of simplified browsers - Here is a super stripped down
| > demo I have been prototyping for a st browser intended for use on
| > anroid/ios devices (in other words it looks better on phone than on
| > desktop): http://jsfiddle.net/RZ8f4/10/embedded/result/
| >
| > -shaun
| >
| > On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 1:24 PM,<[hidden email]>  wrote:
| >> "H. Hirzel"<[hidden email]>  writes:
| >>
| >>> I assume it will have a search box for methods names and class
| >>> names
| >>> which displays incrementally the matches as you type.
| >>>
| >>> Yes, that might be useful...
| >> Yes, it would.
| >>
| >> Nico
| >>
| >>> --Hannes
| >>>
| >>> On 6/18/12, [hidden email]<[hidden email]>
| >>>  wrote:
| >>>> Herby Vojčík<[hidden email]>  writes:
| >>>>
| >>>> I'm not sure I understand what you mean :)
| >>>>
| >>>> Nico
| >>>>
| >>>>> With simpler IDE (not the classical Smalltalk browser), powered
| >>>>> basically by incremental search.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Or so I think.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Not only for showing bugs, but also for promoting Smalltalk -
| >>>>> it would
| >>>>> be very easy to make it up on such a thing and spread.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Do you think the same or do I miss something?
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Herby
| >>>> --
| >>>> Nicolas Petton
| >>>> http://nicolas-petton.fr
| >>>>
| >> --
| >> Nicolas Petton
| >> http://nicolas-petton.fr
|

Dale Henrichs wrote:
> Interesting view...
>
> How about a link at the top of each of the summary columns theat when clicked gave you the scrollable list of items for the selected column ... that would be cool ... I think:
>
>    click on OnePaneHtmlExporter to get list in bottom pane of classes in that package.
>    click on a class on the list, you see method categories
>    click on a categorie get the method list
>    click on a method get the scrolling source view (as you're showing)

May be. What I actually wanted, but did not implement, is just one
editbox which would filter the items based on their labels. SO if I want
all methods asString, I'll put ">> asStg" there. Etc. With a button to
clear the filter.

(to save space the wheel could be clickable to reveal the "drop-down",
it is just passive view for now)

The question is, which one would be adopted by people... it would need
a/b testing (or all of it may be there).

But, whatever. The idea was, to get jsfiddle-like thingie for amber. For
people who are not familiar with the good old four-pane browser, but
they know how to use scroller on a pane which resembles the plain
text-file editor.

I am glad at least someone likes the idea.

Herby,

I've been casting about for a web-friendly non-browser-based code editor for Smalltalk myself:) I want to use it in my tODE project ... your sample is the closest I've seen to something that could preserve navigation (the best part of the browser) without being a browser:)

I've not done development in tODE recently, but I hope to get back to it later this summer, then we'll see:)

Dale

----- Original Message -----
| From: "Herby Vojčík" <[hidden email]>
| To: [hidden email]
| Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:03:11 AM
| Subject: Re: [amber-lang] I think amber needs equivalent of jsfiddle
|
|
|
| Dale Henrichs wrote:
| > Interesting view...
| >
| > How about a link at the top of each of the summary columns theat
| > when clicked gave you the scrollable list of items for the
| > selected column ... that would be cool ... I think:
| >
| >    click on OnePaneHtmlExporter to get list in bottom pane of
| >    classes in that package.
| >    click on a class on the list, you see method categories
| >    click on a categorie get the method list
| >    click on a method get the scrolling source view (as you're
| >    showing)
|
| May be. What I actually wanted, but did not implement, is just one
| editbox which would filter the items based on their labels. SO if I
| want
| all methods asString, I'll put ">> asStg" there. Etc. With a button
| to
| clear the filter.
|
| (to save space the wheel could be clickable to reveal the
| "drop-down",
| it is just passive view for now)
|
| The question is, which one would be adopted by people... it would
| need
| a/b testing (or all of it may be there).
|
| But, whatever. The idea was, to get jsfiddle-like thingie for amber.
| For
| people who are not familiar with the good old four-pane browser, but
| they know how to use scroller on a pane which resembles the plain
| text-file editor.
|
| I am glad at least someone likes the idea.
|
| > This would preserve the nice navigation you get from 5 pane browser
| > in your compact single pane view...
| >
| > Dale
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > | From: "Herby Vojčík"<[hidden email]>
| > | To: [hidden email]
| > | Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:54:41 AM
| > | Subject: Re: [amber-lang] I think amber needs equivalent of
| > | jsfiddle
| > |
| > | I thought of something like this
| > | http://apps.herby.sk/stample/devel.html
| > | embedded as an edit pane in a "fiddle js" type of page.
| > |
| > | Herby
| > |
| > | shaun gilchrist wrote:
| > |>  On the topic of simplified browsers - Here is a super stripped
| > |>  down
| > |>  demo I have been prototyping for a st browser intended for use
| > |>  on
| > |>  anroid/ios devices (in other words it looks better on phone
| > |>  than on
| > |>  desktop): http://jsfiddle.net/RZ8f4/10/embedded/result/
| > |>
| > |>  -shaun
| > |>
| > |>  On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 1:24 PM,<[hidden email]>
| > |>    wrote:
| > |>>  "H. Hirzel"<[hidden email]>   writes:
| > |>>
| > |>>>  I assume it will have a search box for methods names and
| > |>>>  class
| > |>>>  names
| > |>>>  which displays incrementally the matches as you type.
| > |>>>
| > |>>>  Yes, that might be useful...
| > |>>  Yes, it would.
| > |>>
| > |>>  Nico
| > |>>
| > |>>>  --Hannes
| > |>>>
| > |>>>  On 6/18/12,
| > |>>>  [hidden email]<[hidden email]>
| > |>>>   wrote:
| > |>>>>  Herby Vojčík<[hidden email]>   writes:
| > |>>>>
| > |>>>>  I'm not sure I understand what you mean :)
| > |>>>>
| > |>>>>  Nico
| > |>>>>
| > |>>>>>  With simpler IDE (not the classical Smalltalk browser),
| > |>>>>>  powered
| > |>>>>>  basically by incremental search.
| > |>>>>>
| > |>>>>>  Or so I think.
| > |>>>>>
| > |>>>>>  Not only for showing bugs, but also for promoting Smalltalk
| > |>>>>>  -
| > |>>>>>  it would
| > |>>>>>  be very easy to make it up on such a thing and spread.
| > |>>>>>
| > |>>>>>  Do you think the same or do I miss something?
| > |>>>>>
| > |>>>>>  Herby
| > |>>>>  --
| > |>>>>  Nicolas Petton
| > |>>>>  http://nicolas-petton.fr
| > |>>>>
| > |>>  --
| > |>>  Nicolas Petton
| > |>>  http://nicolas-petton.fr
| > |
|

I only noticed this thread now, but I agree that Amber could benefit from something like jsFiddle.

One pane for a HTML file, one for the Amber Smalltalk code (the simplified browser) and of course a Result pane.