Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?

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Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?

Offray
Hi all,

I'm advancing at making my interactive notebook for open/garage/citizen
research & science in Moose called Grafoscopio[0]. This are baby steps
towards an alternate approach to what Andrei, Jan and Doru are trying
[1][2] for documentation, that begins with a document tree inside the
image and "projects" the files (markdown by traversing the tagged tree
and then latex and html, via pandoc and pdf via pdftex/luatex). In this
way you can have a complete interactive document (book size) inside the
image, stored/shared/versioned in the lightweight STON with arbitrary
levels of deepness and only think about files when you are exporting to
pdf or intermediate formats. Also I think that this solution is easier
to run on Windows that Pillar Book Skeleton.

[0] http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Offray/Grafoscopio
[1]
http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/writing-pillar-books-with-the-gtinspector
[2]
http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/creating-custom-browsers-out-of-inspector-extensions/

Markdown (pandoc's variant) express only the surface of the writing,
while deeper structure is stored in the image and STON. I call this the
"iceberg metaphor" for writing and data visualization, so instead of
WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) of common word processors you
have WYSIOTSOWYH (What You See Is Only The Surface Of What You Have)
which is what happens with most of the time and the common word
processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express. New
metaphors for writing are needed if we want to bootstrap more
open/inclusive ways to do science and research, coming not only from
academia but also from non canonical places like citizens and garages,
maker/hacker spaces.

Here is a small video of how interface looks today, which allow me to
introduce some practical questions on how to deliver this vision:

https://archive.org/details/grafoscopio-tags-alpha1.mp4

As you can see, I can tag a node as code (código) and the node view and
behaviour gets updated after revisiting the node, providing
auto-completion and syntax highlighting, so:

1. There is any way to get the node view/behaviour updated instantly
without the need to revisit the node?

2. When I press the accept icon I don't get the code executed, even if I
selected all previously. There is any way to get the code executed?

3. My idea in the future is to make the node view of the tree at the
right side a complete playground instead of a workspace, with their
emergent lateral panels when an object is selected. There is any way to
embed a playground in a browser pane or any plan to implement this feature?

4. At the very end of the video you see the trace of an error that is
raised when I select and empty part of the tree. This is the most
annoying behaviour and can create lost of information if you have write
a node and not saved the tree just before clicking and empty tree space.
I imagine that this can be solved with a "when:" message that can be
used  to tell the browser only to show something in the right if there
is something selected at the left. I will try to debug this, but any
pointer in the right direction would be appreciated.


It has been a pleasure to work with Pharo and Moose for this project. Is
a very empowering platform to express ideas about how interactive
documentation could be done, among other things and the community is
welcoming and awesome!

Thanks,

Offray

ps: attached is the ston file for the document used in the video).

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Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?

Offray
A typo, when I said

El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:

> which is what happens with most of the time and the common word
> processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.

I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't capture/express.

:-)

Cheers,

Offray


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Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?

abergel
Continue your effort. It will be very valuable over the time.

Cheers,
Alexandre
-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[hidden email]> wrote:

A typo, when I said

El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:

which is what happens with most of the time and the common word
processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.

I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't capture/express.

:-)

Cheers,

Offray


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Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?

Offray
Thanks Alexandre. I'll be waiting for the answers to the questions about
automatic updates of browsers and embeden panes with playgrounds to
implement the next step.

Cheers,

Offray

El 21/01/15 a las 08:40, Alexandre Bergel escribió:

> Continue your effort. It will be very valuable over the time.
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
>> On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> A typo, when I said
>>
>> El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:
>>
>>> which is what happens with most of the time and the common word
>>> processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.
>>
>> I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't capture/express.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Offray
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>


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Am I asking wrong? (It was Re: Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?)

Offray
Hi,

At the begining of the week I asked the mail that I'm answering myself
now, not because I have some answer, but because I have not any answer
from anybody (except the valuable encouragement from Alexandre).

I see that other questions get answers more quickly and I don't know if
where is the fault. My approach was to introduce the general idea with a
video and then particular questions, but I have no comments on the
general idea nor answer on the particular.

Am I making something wrong or is just something else?

Thanks,

Offray

El 21/01/15 a las 16:04, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:

> Thanks Alexandre. I'll be waiting for the answers to the questions about
> automatic updates of browsers and embeden panes with playgrounds to
> implement the next step.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
> El 21/01/15 a las 08:40, Alexandre Bergel escribió:
>> Continue your effort. It will be very valuable over the time.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Alexandre
>> --
>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
>>> <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> A typo, when I said
>>>
>>> El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:
>>>
>>>> which is what happens with most of the time and the common word
>>>> processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.
>>>
>>> I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't
>>> capture/express.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Offray
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>


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Re: Am I asking wrong? (It was Re: Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?)

Tudor Girba-2
Hi,

Good question.

A technical question that can be reproduced quickly without much setup will be answered the fastest.

If the question is not technical, it will take longer to reply.

A longer question will take longer to reply.

A one page of introduction before the question is even asked will take even longer.

Placing multiple questions in the same mail will take yet longer.

So, I would say you are asking in a way that is hard to answer fast. Could you try to trim it down to canonical examples and split into individual questions?

Cheers,
Doru



On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

At the begining of the week I asked the mail that I'm answering myself now, not because I have some answer, but because I have not any answer from anybody (except the valuable encouragement from Alexandre).

I see that other questions get answers more quickly and I don't know if where is the fault. My approach was to introduce the general idea with a video and then particular questions, but I have no comments on the general idea nor answer on the particular.

Am I making something wrong or is just something else?

Thanks,

Offray

El 21/01/15 a las 16:04, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:
Thanks Alexandre. I'll be waiting for the answers to the questions about
automatic updates of browsers and embeden panes with playgrounds to
implement the next step.

Cheers,

Offray

El 21/01/15 a las 08:40, Alexandre Bergel escribió:
Continue your effort. It will be very valuable over the time.

Cheers,
Alexandre
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
<[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

A typo, when I said

El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:

which is what happens with most of the time and the common word
processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.

I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't
capture/express.

:-)

Cheers,

Offray


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--

"Every thing has its own flow"

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Re: Am I asking wrong? (It was Re: Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?)

abergel
+1


> On Jan 22, 2015, at 5:54 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Good question.
>
> A technical question that can be reproduced quickly without much setup will be answered the fastest.
>
> If the question is not technical, it will take longer to reply.
>
> A longer question will take longer to reply.
>
> A one page of introduction before the question is even asked will take even longer.
>
> Placing multiple questions in the same mail will take yet longer.
>
> So, I would say you are asking in a way that is hard to answer fast. Could you try to trim it down to canonical examples and split into individual questions?
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> At the begining of the week I asked the mail that I'm answering myself now, not because I have some answer, but because I have not any answer from anybody (except the valuable encouragement from Alexandre).
>
> I see that other questions get answers more quickly and I don't know if where is the fault. My approach was to introduce the general idea with a video and then particular questions, but I have no comments on the general idea nor answer on the particular.
>
> Am I making something wrong or is just something else?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Offray
>
> El 21/01/15 a las 16:04, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:
> Thanks Alexandre. I'll be waiting for the answers to the questions about
> automatic updates of browsers and embeden panes with playgrounds to
> implement the next step.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
> El 21/01/15 a las 08:40, Alexandre Bergel escribió:
> Continue your effort. It will be very valuable over the time.
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
> <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> A typo, when I said
>
> El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:
>
> which is what happens with most of the time and the common word
> processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.
>
> I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't
> capture/express.
>
> :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Every thing has its own flow"
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.




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Re: Am I asking wrong? (It was Re: Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?)

Andrei Chis
+1

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:31 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1


> On Jan 22, 2015, at 5:54 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Good question.
>
> A technical question that can be reproduced quickly without much setup will be answered the fastest.
>
> If the question is not technical, it will take longer to reply.
>
> A longer question will take longer to reply.
>
> A one page of introduction before the question is even asked will take even longer.
>
> Placing multiple questions in the same mail will take yet longer.
>
> So, I would say you are asking in a way that is hard to answer fast. Could you try to trim it down to canonical examples and split into individual questions?
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> At the begining of the week I asked the mail that I'm answering myself now, not because I have some answer, but because I have not any answer from anybody (except the valuable encouragement from Alexandre).
>
> I see that other questions get answers more quickly and I don't know if where is the fault. My approach was to introduce the general idea with a video and then particular questions, but I have no comments on the general idea nor answer on the particular.
>
> Am I making something wrong or is just something else?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Offray
>
> El 21/01/15 a las 16:04, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:
> Thanks Alexandre. I'll be waiting for the answers to the questions about
> automatic updates of browsers and embeden panes with playgrounds to
> implement the next step.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
> El 21/01/15 a las 08:40, Alexandre Bergel escribió:
> Continue your effort. It will be very valuable over the time.
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
> <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> A typo, when I said
>
> El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:
>
> which is what happens with most of the time and the common word
> processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.
>
> I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't
> capture/express.
>
> :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Every thing has its own flow"
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.




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Re: Am I asking wrong? (It was Re: Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?)

Aliaksei Syrel
+1

Cheers,
Alex

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:33 PM, Andrei Chis <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:31 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1


> On Jan 22, 2015, at 5:54 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Good question.
>
> A technical question that can be reproduced quickly without much setup will be answered the fastest.
>
> If the question is not technical, it will take longer to reply.
>
> A longer question will take longer to reply.
>
> A one page of introduction before the question is even asked will take even longer.
>
> Placing multiple questions in the same mail will take yet longer.
>
> So, I would say you are asking in a way that is hard to answer fast. Could you try to trim it down to canonical examples and split into individual questions?
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> At the begining of the week I asked the mail that I'm answering myself now, not because I have some answer, but because I have not any answer from anybody (except the valuable encouragement from Alexandre).
>
> I see that other questions get answers more quickly and I don't know if where is the fault. My approach was to introduce the general idea with a video and then particular questions, but I have no comments on the general idea nor answer on the particular.
>
> Am I making something wrong or is just something else?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Offray
>
> El 21/01/15 a las 16:04, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:
> Thanks Alexandre. I'll be waiting for the answers to the questions about
> automatic updates of browsers and embeden panes with playgrounds to
> implement the next step.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
> El 21/01/15 a las 08:40, Alexandre Bergel escribió:
> Continue your effort. It will be very valuable over the time.
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
> <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> A typo, when I said
>
> El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:
>
> which is what happens with most of the time and the common word
> processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.
>
> I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't
> capture/express.
>
> :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Every thing has its own flow"
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.




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Re: Am I asking wrong? (It was Re: Re: Iceberg metaphor for writing/dataviz or How to avoid revisiting nodes in a tree for getting proper updating of browsers?)

Offray
In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2
Hi,

Well seems that striking the proper balance between context for the
question and direct questions is a key issue between getting a quick
answer, or none at all, so I will try another approach. A long blog post
for the ones who want the details of my project at [1] and quick
technical questions that can refer to that context.

[1] Grafoscopio: Iceberg metaphor for writing and data visualization:
http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/grafoscopio-idea-and-initial-progress.html

I will ask the questions in another thread.

Thanks and cheers,

Offray

El 22/01/15 a las 15:54, Tudor Girba escribió:

> Hi,
>
> Good question.
>
> A technical question that can be reproduced quickly without much setup will be
> answered the fastest.
>
> If the question is not technical, it will take longer to reply.
>
> A longer question will take longer to reply.
>
> A one page of introduction before the question is even asked will take even longer.
>
> Placing multiple questions in the same mail will take yet longer.
>
> So, I would say you are asking in a way that is hard to answer fast. Could you
> try to trim it down to canonical examples and split into individual questions?
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>      Hi,
>
>      At the begining of the week I asked the mail that I'm answering myself now,
>      not because I have some answer, but because I have not any answer from
>      anybody (except the valuable encouragement from Alexandre).
>
>      I see that other questions get answers more quickly and I don't know if
>      where is the fault. My approach was to introduce the general idea with a
>      video and then particular questions, but I have no comments on the general
>      idea nor answer on the particular.
>
>      Am I making something wrong or is just something else?
>
>      Thanks,
>
>      Offray
>
>      El 21/01/15 a las 16:04, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:
>
>          Thanks Alexandre. I'll be waiting for the answers to the questions about
>          automatic updates of browsers and embeden panes with playgrounds to
>          implement the next step.
>
>          Cheers,
>
>          Offray
>
>          El 21/01/15 a las 08:40, Alexandre Bergel escribió:
>
>              Continue your effort. It will be very valuable over the time.
>
>              Cheers,
>              Alexandre
>              --
>              _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~__:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>              Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
>              ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.__;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
>                  On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:07 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
>                  <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>                  <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>> wrote:
>
>                  A typo, when I said
>
>                  El 20/01/15 a las 19:14, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas escribió:
>
>                      which is what happens with most of the time and the common word
>                      processing and file oriented metaphors can capture/express.
>
>
>                  I mean: word processing and file oriented metaphors can't
>                  capture/express.
>
>                  :-)
>
>                  Cheers,
>
>                  Offray
>
>
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