Ideas worth stealing

> With the idea that no good idea should go un-stolen, allow me to  
> introduce seaside fans to active scaffold http://activescaffold.com.
>
> I am wrapping up a ruby on rails engagement with a client and  
> discovered this framework.  I ended up using ROR because the client  
> had an existing mysql database and Squeak's mysql support isn't so  
> hot where rails is all about mysql, and I had only a couple "flows"  
> but a whole lot of plain old admin-CRUD to do and rails excels at  
> plain crud on mysql.  With activescaffold - I had to write very  
> little code for the admin UI - a major plus because this project is  
> on a very tight timeline.
>
> Anyhow, activescaffold works with activerecord and infers a really  
> slick AJAX UI that supports sensible CRUD more or less instantly.  
> Once installed, you can go through and customize views by adding  
> actions links, filtering columns, and generally overriding bits of  
> logic to make it more task focused.
>
> It would be really cool to have a similar facility in Seaside.
>
> Cheers,
> -Todd Blanchard
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>

> Cincom is doing exactly that - combining the ActiveRecord pattern  
> with scaffolding.  Have a look here:
>
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/mls/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=WebVelocity_alpha_screencast&entry=3388846573
>
> James Robertson
> Cincom Smalltalk Product Evangelist
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView
> Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library
>
>
>
>
> On May 30, 2008, at 3:13 AM, Todd Blanchard wrote:
>
>> With the idea that no good idea should go un-stolen, allow me to  
>> introduce seaside fans to active scaffold http://activescaffold.com.
>>
>> I am wrapping up a ruby on rails engagement with a client and  
>> discovered this framework.  I ended up using ROR because the client  
>> had an existing mysql database and Squeak's mysql support isn't so  
>> hot where rails is all about mysql, and I had only a couple "flows"  
>> but a whole lot of plain old admin-CRUD to do and rails excels at  
>> plain crud on mysql.  With activescaffold - I had to write very  
>> little code for the admin UI - a major plus because this project is  
>> on a very tight timeline.
>>
>> Anyhow, activescaffold works with activerecord and infers a really  
>> slick AJAX UI that supports sensible CRUD more or less instantly.  
>> Once installed, you can go through and customize views by adding  
>> actions links, filtering columns, and generally overriding bits of  
>> logic to make it more task focused.
>>
>> It would be really cool to have a similar facility in Seaside.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Todd Blanchard
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> I watched the screencast.  It is not the same thing.  I think you  
> guys are missing something key in that project of yours.
>
> Active scaffold simply lets me point the app at a db and ZAM total  
> admin UI that looks nice with AJAX master detail editing.  I can  
> then filter out attributes that people ought not to edit, apply  
> permissions, and decorate the app with task links.
>
> The demo shows app development.  I didn't develop a thing apart from  
> specify some mappings because the database used weird and  
> inconsistent naming conventions.
>
> I also found it interesting that the app being developed in the  
> screencast didn't look nearly as sophisticated as the tools being  
> used to build it.  I don't find that a good selling point.
>
> -Todd Blanchard
>
> On May 30, 2008, at 4:28 AM, James Robertson wrote:
>
>> Cincom is doing exactly that - combining the ActiveRecord pattern  
>> with scaffolding.  Have a look here:
>>
>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/mls/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=WebVelocity_alpha_screencast&entry=3388846573
>>
>> James Robertson
>> Cincom Smalltalk Product Evangelist
>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView
>> Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 30, 2008, at 3:13 AM, Todd Blanchard wrote:
>>
>>> With the idea that no good idea should go un-stolen, allow me to  
>>> introduce seaside fans to active scaffold http://activescaffold.com.
>>>
>>> I am wrapping up a ruby on rails engagement with a client and  
>>> discovered this framework.  I ended up using ROR because the  
>>> client had an existing mysql database and Squeak's mysql support  
>>> isn't so hot where rails is all about mysql, and I had only a  
>>> couple "flows" but a whole lot of plain old admin-CRUD to do and  
>>> rails excels at plain crud on mysql.  With activescaffold - I had  
>>> to write very little code for the admin UI - a major plus because  
>>> this project is on a very tight timeline.
>>>
>>> Anyhow, activescaffold works with activerecord and infers a really  
>>> slick AJAX UI that supports sensible CRUD more or less instantly.  
>>> Once installed, you can go through and customize views by adding  
>>> actions links, filtering columns, and generally overriding bits of  
>>> logic to make it more task focused.
>>>
>>> It would be really cool to have a similar facility in Seaside.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Todd Blanchard
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> seaside mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>

> That is an interesting question - I've taken a run with magritte  
> once or twice and did not make satisfactory progress and abandoned it.
>
> I found the method of defining the meta model in magritte to be  
> rather ponderous and awkward.
>
> Not that it isn't expressive, but I don't know all the parts/
> mappings/kinds of things - I spent all this time looking at the docs  
> or examples.  Also the documentation is non-existent.  Really, if  
> you want to get people to use magritte - STOP CODING AND START  
> DOCUMENTING - I don't have time to figure it out from the examples  
> or pier or any running code.  I want docs and code snippets I can  
> steal and modify. I want them in a nicely indexed web site so I can  
> find a solution to my exact problem using google in about sixty  
> seconds.
>
> Note website for activescaffold: http://activescaffold.com
> Click on documentation.  Wow, everything I need to know right  
> there.  Brilliant. Where is the equivalent resource for Magritte?  
> Google couldn't find it.
>
> Most of what you need to define the magritte model is already in the  
> database schema - so can magritte just infer the fields and let me  
> just customize it's behavior?
>
> The missing part in the database is the mapping of widgets and the  
> order or presentation of fields.
>
> In the system I am doing (sells tickets to a new museum) there is
>
> Order->OrderTransactions (subclassed to Purchase,Exchange,Return)-
> >Tickets (actually two relations - tickets added, tickets removed)
>
> The code to get a fully functioning back office/admin UI to edit  
> this entire network is below - there's very little of it.  Most of  
> the code is just to customize elements - change labels for columns,  
> change column order, suppress presentation of some columns or  
> relationships.
>
> Why I picked Rails:
>
> 1) I already had an existing mysql database I had to use.
> 2) Client wanted a technology with a large local pool of talent he  
> could hire - robotcoop is nearby (spinoff of amazon.com) - they are  
> all rails and it is easy to hire people from there
> 3) I had a lot of UI that is back office and can be kind of ugyly/
> auto-generated and only a little public UI (ticket purchase flow)
> 4) Rails has a number of scalable deployment recipes available - I'm  
> using apache->mongrel cluster.   I will add capistrano to automate  
> upgrade deployments
> 5) I'm replacing an equivalent system written in a nightmare  
> combination of Java/Hibernate/Cocoon-js/xml-xslt/tomcat that nobody  
> wants to maintain.  I can't learn that many languages - but I most  
> certainly can steal/translate logic and templates - it was easy to  
> translate jsp to rhtml templates.
>
> For your amusement - the entirety of the order/ordertransaction/
> ticket code is below - it does a two level master-detail view with  
> ajax updates in a single page.  It took me almost no time at all to  
> get this working and the majority of the code you see is just  
> appearance tweaks or action disabling.
>
>
> :
> #model - (all of it - really)
> class Order < ActiveRecord::Base
>     set_table_name 'orders'
>     has_many :order_transactions, :class_name =>  
> 'OrderTransaction', :foreign_key => 'order_id', :dependent => :destroy
>     belongs_to :purchaseTransaction, :class_name =>  
> 'TicketPurchase', :foreign_key => 'purchaseTransaction'
> end
>
> class OrderTransaction < ActiveRecord::Base
>     has_many :ticketsReturned, :class_name => 'Ticket', :foreign_key  
> => 'returnTransaction', :include => [:price, :product], :dependent  
> => :destroy, :order => 'sequence_number'
>     has_many :ticketsAdded, :class_name => 'Ticket', :foreign_key =>  
> 'originatingTransaction', :include => [:price, :product], :dependent  
> => :destroy, :order => 'sequence_number'
>
> class TicketPurchase <  OrderTransaction
> end
>
> class TicketExchange <  OrderTransaction
> end
>
> class TicketReturn <  OrderTransaction
> end
>
> class Ticket < ActiveRecord::Base
> end
>
> #controllers - tops is most complicated - remove create update and  
> delete abilities - add some action links (all of it)
> class Admin::OrderController < AdminController
>     layout "admin"
>     active_scaffold :orders do | config |
>       config.actions.exclude :delete
>       config.actions.exclude :update
>       config.actions.exclude :create
>       config.action_links.add :resend_email, :label => 'Resend  
> Email', :type => :record, :position => false, :confirm => 'Resend  
> purchase confirmation email?'
>       config.action_links.add :exchange_tickets, :label => 'Exchange  
> Tickets', :type => :record, :position => :after, :crud_type => :update
>       config.action_links.add :refund_tickets, :label => 'Refund  
> Tickets', :type => :record, :position => :after, :crud_type => :update
>         list.sorting = {:date => 'ASC'}
>         config.list.columns =  
> [:date
> , :commissionAccount
> , :nameFirst, :nameLast, :emailAddress, :order_transactions]
>         config.list.per_page = 100
>         config.columns =  
> [:date
> , :commissionAccount
> , :nameFirst
> , :nameLast
> , :emailAddress
> , :address1
> , :address2, :city, :state, :zip, :country, :order_transactions]
>     end
> end
>
> class Admin::OrderTransactionController < AdminController
>   layout "admin"
>   active_scaffold :order_transaction do | config |
>     config.list.columns =  
> [:date
> , :type, :channel, :payment, :credit, :ticketsAdded, :ticketsReturned]
>     config.actions.exclude :delete
>     config.actions.exclude :update
>     config.actions.exclude :create
>   end
> end
>
> class Admin::TicketController < AdminController
>   layout "admin"
>   active_scaffold :ticket do | config |
>     config.list.columns =  
> [:forGto
> , :validForDate
> , :product, :price, :status, :purchasePrice, :serviceCharge, :order]
>     config.list.per_page = 100
>     list.sorting = {:validForDate => 'ASC'}
>     columns[:validForDate].label = "Date"
>     columns[:product].label = "Description"
>     columns[:price].label = "Ticket"
>     columns[:purchasePrice].label = "Price"
>     columns[:serviceCharge].label = "Service Charge"
>     config.actions.exclude :delete
>     config.actions.exclude :update
>     config.actions.exclude :create
>   end
>
> #views - auto-generated - no code at all
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 1, 2008, at 12:47 AM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>
>> todd
>> do you think that magritte could help there?
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On May 31, 2008, at 1:04 AM, Todd Blanchard wrote:
>>
>>> I watched the screencast.  It is not the same thing.  I think you  
>>> guys are missing something key in that project of yours.
>>>
>>> Active scaffold simply lets me point the app at a db and ZAM total  
>>> admin UI that looks nice with AJAX master detail editing.  I can  
>>> then filter out attributes that people ought not to edit, apply  
>>> permissions, and decorate the app with task links.
>>>
>>> The demo shows app development.  I didn't develop a thing apart  
>>> from specify some mappings because the database used weird and  
>>> inconsistent naming conventions.
>>>
>>> I also found it interesting that the app being developed in the  
>>> screencast didn't look nearly as sophisticated as the tools being  
>>> used to build it.  I don't find that a good selling point.
>>>
>>> -Todd Blanchard
>>>
>>> On May 30, 2008, at 4:28 AM, James Robertson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cincom is doing exactly that - combining the ActiveRecord pattern  
>>>> with scaffolding.  Have a look here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/mls/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=WebVelocity_alpha_screencast&entry=3388846573
>>>>
>>>> James Robertson
>>>> Cincom Smalltalk Product Evangelist
>>>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView
>>>> Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 30, 2008, at 3:13 AM, Todd Blanchard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> With the idea that no good idea should go un-stolen, allow me to  
>>>>> introduce seaside fans to active scaffold http://activescaffold.com 
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> I am wrapping up a ruby on rails engagement with a client and  
>>>>> discovered this framework.  I ended up using ROR because the  
>>>>> client had an existing mysql database and Squeak's mysql support  
>>>>> isn't so hot where rails is all about mysql, and I had only a  
>>>>> couple "flows" but a whole lot of plain old admin-CRUD to do and  
>>>>> rails excels at plain crud on mysql.  With activescaffold - I  
>>>>> had to write very little code for the admin UI - a major plus  
>>>>> because this project is on a very tight timeline.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyhow, activescaffold works with activerecord and infers a  
>>>>> really slick AJAX UI that supports sensible CRUD more or less  
>>>>> instantly.  Once installed, you can go through and customize  
>>>>> views by adding actions links, filtering columns, and generally  
>>>>> overriding bits of logic to make it more task focused.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be really cool to have a similar facility in Seaside.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> -Todd Blanchard
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> seaside mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> seaside mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> seaside mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> Hi Todd
>
> You are right but you can also participate.
> You want a lot and we are few.
> Just a reminder Lukas delivers a lot of high quality code:
> Pier
> Seaside
> Magritte
> Lukas is helping maintaining the website of seaside, doing a PhD, ...
> I always mentioned that it would be good to have Magritte to produce  
> simple table and sql mapping.
> Now if nobody builds something for what he needs then it will not  
> exist.
> I think that Seasiders could share more. May be there is not enough  
> producers
> compared to the consumers.
>
> Stef
>
>
> On Jun 1, 2008, at 8:45 PM, Todd Blanchard wrote:
>
>> That is an interesting question - I've taken a run with magritte  
>> once or twice and did not make satisfactory progress and abandoned  
>> it.
>>
>> I found the method of defining the meta model in magritte to be  
>> rather ponderous and awkward.
>>
>> Not that it isn't expressive, but I don't know all the parts/
>> mappings/kinds of things - I spent all this time looking at the  
>> docs or examples.  Also the documentation is non-existent.  Really,  
>> if you want to get people to use magritte - STOP CODING AND START  
>> DOCUMENTING - I don't have time to figure it out from the examples  
>> or pier or any running code.  I want docs and code snippets I can  
>> steal and modify. I want them in a nicely indexed web site so I can  
>> find a solution to my exact problem using google in about sixty  
>> seconds.
>>
>> Note website for activescaffold: http://activescaffold.com
>> Click on documentation.  Wow, everything I need to know right  
>> there.  Brilliant. Where is the equivalent resource for Magritte?  
>> Google couldn't find it.
>>
>> Most of what you need to define the magritte model is already in  
>> the database schema - so can magritte just infer the fields and let  
>> me just customize it's behavior?
>>
>> The missing part in the database is the mapping of widgets and the  
>> order or presentation of fields.
>>
>> In the system I am doing (sells tickets to a new museum) there is
>>
>> Order->OrderTransactions (subclassed to Purchase,Exchange,Return)-
>> >Tickets (actually two relations - tickets added, tickets removed)
>>
>> The code to get a fully functioning back office/admin UI to edit  
>> this entire network is below - there's very little of it.  Most of  
>> the code is just to customize elements - change labels for columns,  
>> change column order, suppress presentation of some columns or  
>> relationships.
>>
>> Why I picked Rails:
>>
>> 1) I already had an existing mysql database I had to use.
>> 2) Client wanted a technology with a large local pool of talent he  
>> could hire - robotcoop is nearby (spinoff of amazon.com) - they are  
>> all rails and it is easy to hire people from there
>> 3) I had a lot of UI that is back office and can be kind of ugyly/
>> auto-generated and only a little public UI (ticket purchase flow)
>> 4) Rails has a number of scalable deployment recipes available -  
>> I'm using apache->mongrel cluster.   I will add capistrano to  
>> automate upgrade deployments
>> 5) I'm replacing an equivalent system written in a nightmare  
>> combination of Java/Hibernate/Cocoon-js/xml-xslt/tomcat that nobody  
>> wants to maintain.  I can't learn that many languages - but I most  
>> certainly can steal/translate logic and templates - it was easy to  
>> translate jsp to rhtml templates.
>>
>> For your amusement - the entirety of the order/ordertransaction/
>> ticket code is below - it does a two level master-detail view with  
>> ajax updates in a single page.  It took me almost no time at all to  
>> get this working and the majority of the code you see is just  
>> appearance tweaks or action disabling.
>>
>>
>> :
>> #model - (all of it - really)
>> class Order < ActiveRecord::Base
>>    set_table_name 'orders'
>>    has_many :order_transactions, :class_name =>  
>> 'OrderTransaction', :foreign_key => 'order_id', :dependent  
>> => :destroy
>>    belongs_to :purchaseTransaction, :class_name =>  
>> 'TicketPurchase', :foreign_key => 'purchaseTransaction'
>> end
>>
>> class OrderTransaction < ActiveRecord::Base
>>    has_many :ticketsReturned, :class_name => 'Ticket', :foreign_key  
>> => 'returnTransaction', :include => [:price, :product], :dependent  
>> => :destroy, :order => 'sequence_number'
>>    has_many :ticketsAdded, :class_name => 'Ticket', :foreign_key =>  
>> 'originatingTransaction', :include =>  
>> [:price, :product], :dependent => :destroy, :order =>  
>> 'sequence_number'
>>
>> class TicketPurchase <  OrderTransaction
>> end
>>
>> class TicketExchange <  OrderTransaction
>> end
>>
>> class TicketReturn <  OrderTransaction
>> end
>>
>> class Ticket < ActiveRecord::Base
>> end
>>
>> #controllers - tops is most complicated - remove create update and  
>> delete abilities - add some action links (all of it)
>> class Admin::OrderController < AdminController
>>    layout "admin"
>>    active_scaffold :orders do | config |
>>      config.actions.exclude :delete
>>      config.actions.exclude :update
>>      config.actions.exclude :create
>>      config.action_links.add :resend_email, :label => 'Resend  
>> Email', :type => :record, :position => false, :confirm => 'Resend  
>> purchase confirmation email?'
>>      config.action_links.add :exchange_tickets, :label => 'Exchange  
>> Tickets', :type => :record, :position => :after, :crud_type  
>> => :update
>>      config.action_links.add :refund_tickets, :label => 'Refund  
>> Tickets', :type => :record, :position => :after, :crud_type  
>> => :update
>>        list.sorting = {:date => 'ASC'}
>>        config.list.columns =  
>> [:date
>> , :commissionAccount
>> , :nameFirst, :nameLast, :emailAddress, :order_transactions]
>>        config.list.per_page = 100
>>        config.columns =  
>> [:date
>> , :commissionAccount
>> , :nameFirst
>> , :nameLast
>> , :emailAddress
>> , :address1
>> , :address2, :city, :state, :zip, :country, :order_transactions]
>>    end
>> end
>>
>> class Admin::OrderTransactionController < AdminController
>>  layout "admin"
>>  active_scaffold :order_transaction do | config |
>>    config.list.columns =  
>> [:date
>> , :type
>> , :channel, :payment, :credit, :ticketsAdded, :ticketsReturned]
>>    config.actions.exclude :delete
>>    config.actions.exclude :update
>>    config.actions.exclude :create
>>  end
>> end
>>
>> class Admin::TicketController < AdminController
>>  layout "admin"
>>  active_scaffold :ticket do | config |
>>    config.list.columns =  
>> [:forGto
>> , :validForDate
>> , :product, :price, :status, :purchasePrice, :serviceCharge, :order]
>>    config.list.per_page = 100
>>    list.sorting = {:validForDate => 'ASC'}
>>    columns[:validForDate].label = "Date"
>>    columns[:product].label = "Description"
>>    columns[:price].label = "Ticket"
>>    columns[:purchasePrice].label = "Price"
>>    columns[:serviceCharge].label = "Service Charge"
>>    config.actions.exclude :delete
>>    config.actions.exclude :update
>>    config.actions.exclude :create
>>  end
>>
>> #views - auto-generated - no code at all
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2008, at 12:47 AM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>
>>> todd
>>> do you think that magritte could help there?
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> On May 31, 2008, at 1:04 AM, Todd Blanchard wrote:
>>>
>>>> I watched the screencast.  It is not the same thing.  I think you  
>>>> guys are missing something key in that project of yours.
>>>>
>>>> Active scaffold simply lets me point the app at a db and ZAM  
>>>> total admin UI that looks nice with AJAX master detail editing.  
>>>> I can then filter out attributes that people ought not to edit,  
>>>> apply permissions, and decorate the app with task links.
>>>>
>>>> The demo shows app development.  I didn't develop a thing apart  
>>>> from specify some mappings because the database used weird and  
>>>> inconsistent naming conventions.
>>>>
>>>> I also found it interesting that the app being developed in the  
>>>> screencast didn't look nearly as sophisticated as the tools being  
>>>> used to build it.  I don't find that a good selling point.
>>>>
>>>> -Todd Blanchard
>>>>
>>>> On May 30, 2008, at 4:28 AM, James Robertson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Cincom is doing exactly that - combining the ActiveRecord  
>>>>> pattern with scaffolding.  Have a look here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/mls/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=WebVelocity_alpha_screencast&entry=3388846573
>>>>>
>>>>> James Robertson
>>>>> Cincom Smalltalk Product Evangelist
>>>>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView
>>>>> Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 30, 2008, at 3:13 AM, Todd Blanchard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> With the idea that no good idea should go un-stolen, allow me  
>>>>>> to introduce seaside fans to active scaffold http://activescaffold.com 
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am wrapping up a ruby on rails engagement with a client and  
>>>>>> discovered this framework.  I ended up using ROR because the  
>>>>>> client had an existing mysql database and Squeak's mysql  
>>>>>> support isn't so hot where rails is all about mysql, and I had  
>>>>>> only a couple "flows" but a whole lot of plain old admin-CRUD  
>>>>>> to do and rails excels at plain crud on mysql.  With  
>>>>>> activescaffold - I had to write very little code for the admin  
>>>>>> UI - a major plus because this project is on a very tight  
>>>>>> timeline.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyhow, activescaffold works with activerecord and infers a  
>>>>>> really slick AJAX UI that supports sensible CRUD more or less  
>>>>>> instantly.  Once installed, you can go through and customize  
>>>>>> views by adding actions links, filtering columns, and generally  
>>>>>> overriding bits of logic to make it more task focused.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be really cool to have a similar facility in Seaside.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> -Todd Blanchard
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> seaside mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ 
>>>>>> seaside
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> seaside mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> seaside mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> seaside mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> Ah, please don't get me wrong.  I don't actually like RoR.  I find  
> Ruby's syntax to be confusing and pointlessly complex.  OTOH, it has  
> the right mix of stuff for the mission and I'm getting more  
> comfortable with it.  But I still don't really like it.
>
> I do independent software development from my home.  I cater to  
> small businesses - largely because nobody else does and they need  
> software too.  These clients are very sensitive to price and time to  
> delivery.
>
> I select the technology stack for each project based on the needs of  
> the client.  I'm just explaining why Seaside hasn't been getting  
> picked.  There are things I or my clients need that it just doesn't  
> have.  A good CRUD story on mysql is one of them.  Documentation is  
> another.  Deployment is a third (although I remain hopeful for GLASS).
>
> When I make contributions to software projects, it is usually in the  
> context of a project.  I'll solve problems in the context of  
> whatever I'm working in.  I'd love to take the time out to  
> contribute to Seaside but if I'm not using it, I'm not likely to be  
> able to do it.
>
> It doesn't help that my septic system packed it up this spring and I  
> have to pay for a replacement - I'm not turning down any work this  
> year and I'm short of spare cycles to give away.  Usually I take the  
> summer off to do whatever I like. :-(
>
> So, short answer - I would love to dive in and crack this nut - but  
> I don't have the resources to do it right now.
>
> On Jun 1, 2008, at 12:25 PM, Conrad Taylor wrote:
>
>> Hi Todd, the tools within Smalltalk are many years ahead of the  
>> tools the exist in the RoR.  However, they are starting to get  
>> better with projects like Rubinious and MagLev.  Also, please don't  
>> get me wrong because I do like RoR and that's one of the languages  
>> that I use on a regular basis.  Next, please remember that Seaside  
>> is open source as well as the ActiveScaffold plugin that you  
>> mention.  Thus, the Smalltalk community is always looking for  
>> people to build and architect various API to make system better.  
>> Are you interested in building such a component for Seaside?  It  
>> would be great if you are because it could benefit the entire  
>> community.
>>
>> -Conrad
>>
>> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Todd Blanchard  
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I watched the screencast.  It is not the same thing.  I think you  
>> guys are missing something key in that project of yours.
>>
>> Active scaffold simply lets me point the app at a db and ZAM total  
>> admin UI that looks nice with AJAX master detail editing.  I can  
>> then filter out attributes that people ought not to edit, apply  
>> permissions, and decorate the app with task links.
>>
>> The demo shows app development.  I didn't develop a thing apart  
>> from specify some mappings because the database used weird and  
>> inconsistent naming conventions.
>>
>> I also found it interesting that the app being developed in the  
>> screencast didn't look nearly as sophisticated as the tools being  
>> used to build it.  I don't find that a good selling point.
>>
>> -Todd Blanchard
>>
>>
>> On May 30, 2008, at 4:28 AM, James Robertson wrote:
>>
>> Cincom is doing exactly that - combining the ActiveRecord pattern  
>> with scaffolding.  Have a look here:
>>
>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/mls/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=WebVelocity_alpha_screencast&entry=3388846573
>>
>> James Robertson
>> Cincom Smalltalk Product Evangelist
>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView
>> Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 30, 2008, at 3:13 AM, Todd Blanchard wrote:
>>
>> With the idea that no good idea should go un-stolen, allow me to  
>> introduce seaside fans to active scaffold http://activescaffold.com.
>>
>> I am wrapping up a ruby on rails engagement with a client and  
>> discovered this framework.  I ended up using ROR because the client  
>> had an existing mysql database and Squeak's mysql support isn't so  
>> hot where rails is all about mysql, and I had only a couple "flows"  
>> but a whole lot of plain old admin-CRUD to do and rails excels at  
>> plain crud on mysql.  With activescaffold - I had to write very  
>> little code for the admin UI - a major plus because this project is  
>> on a very tight timeline.
>>
>> Anyhow, activescaffold works with activerecord and infers a really  
>> slick AJAX UI that supports sensible CRUD more or less instantly.  
>> Once installed, you can go through and customize views by adding  
>> actions links, filtering columns, and generally overriding bits of  
>> logic to make it more task focused.
>>
>> It would be really cool to have a similar facility in Seaside.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Todd Blanchard
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> I think that Seaside has been moving very fast the last year or so  
> and I have not been able to keep up with it when I don't have client  
> work that I can use it on.  For awhile it was kind of the Lukas and  
> Philippe show and things were just too much in flux to go near it.  
> Since 2.8 is released, I think this is no longer true.
>
> What would be really great would be for people to stop building the  
> next seaside and start building things WITH seaside to share.  It is  
> the classic Smalltalk problem - we have the best tools and we spend  
> all of our time using them to build better tools. :-)
>
> Seriously - a huge contribution would be an empty seaside app that  
> allows users to register, login, recover passwords, and an  
> administrator UI to allow assigning permissions levels (just tags)  
> to the users and mass mail them.  This could serve as the basis for  
> building any number of additional seaside apps on top of it and  
> would hopefully foster a lot of activity in building community  
> extensions on top of it.   So if anyone is looking for an idea....
>
> Scalable deployment recipes are lacking as well.
>
> A VERY common problem one finds on the web is the desire to have an  
> instant community website with forums, a blog, some static content  
> (marketing info or instructional manuals) and a little store to  
> charge money for things. Google 'integrate phpbb wordpress' to get a  
> feel for how many people want to do this.
>
> I've spent a lot of time with Drupal lately.  As a user, I love how  
> I can download and install features into an integrated website.  As  
> a developer, I've found that module development in Drupal is REALLY  
> hard and obscure.  my drupal site is http://audiofreakshow.com.  I  
> wrote a MIDI performance app last summer and I want to sell license  
> activation keys through this site.  I've found drupal module  
> development to be really hard to get into and I'm not making any  
> headway on that.  It is sad because it is the only thing keeping me  
> from marketing JambaLaya seriously.  It would be cool to use a  
> seaside site to do this, but all I had to do to get the drupal site  
> to where it is was download modules and hack a bit of CSS.  I did it  
> in a few hours.
>
> I would love to dive in and participate - sadly I have two more RoR  
> projects in the queue - one launches this week, another will take  
> all summer.  But I will keep looking for opportunities to help.  I  
> just have this cash flow problem you see....
>
> -Todd Blanchard
>
> On Jun 1, 2008, at 11:56 AM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>
>> Hi Todd
>>
>> You are right but you can also participate.
>> You want a lot and we are few.
>> Just a reminder Lukas delivers a lot of high quality code:
>> Pier
>> Seaside
>> Magritte
>> Lukas is helping maintaining the website of seaside, doing a PhD, ...
>> I always mentioned that it would be good to have Magritte to  
>> produce simple table and sql mapping.
>> Now if nobody builds something for what he needs then it will not  
>> exist.
>> I think that Seasiders could share more. May be there is not enough  
>> producers
>> compared to the consumers.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2008, at 8:45 PM, Todd Blanchard wrote:
>>
>>> That is an interesting question - I've taken a run with magritte  
>>> once or twice and did not make satisfactory progress and abandoned  
>>> it.
>>>
>>> I found the method of defining the meta model in magritte to be  
>>> rather ponderous and awkward.
>>>
>>> Not that it isn't expressive, but I don't know all the parts/
>>> mappings/kinds of things - I spent all this time looking at the  
>>> docs or examples.  Also the documentation is non-existent.  
>>> Really, if you want to get people to use magritte - STOP CODING  
>>> AND START DOCUMENTING - I don't have time to figure it out from  
>>> the examples or pier or any running code.  I want docs and code  
>>> snippets I can steal and modify. I want them in a nicely indexed  
>>> web site so I can find a solution to my exact problem using google  
>>> in about sixty seconds.
>>>
>>> Note website for activescaffold: http://activescaffold.com
>>> Click on documentation.  Wow, everything I need to know right  
>>> there.  Brilliant. Where is the equivalent resource for Magritte?  
>>> Google couldn't find it.
>>>
>>> Most of what you need to define the magritte model is already in  
>>> the database schema - so can magritte just infer the fields and  
>>> let me just customize it's behavior?
>>>
>>> The missing part in the database is the mapping of widgets and the  
>>> order or presentation of fields.
>>>
>>> In the system I am doing (sells tickets to a new museum) there is
>>>
>>> Order->OrderTransactions (subclassed to Purchase,Exchange,Return)-
>>> >Tickets (actually two relations - tickets added, tickets removed)
>>>
>>> The code to get a fully functioning back office/admin UI to edit  
>>> this entire network is below - there's very little of it.  Most of  
>>> the code is just to customize elements - change labels for  
>>> columns, change column order, suppress presentation of some  
>>> columns or relationships.
>>>
>>> Why I picked Rails:
>>>
>>> 1) I already had an existing mysql database I had to use.
>>> 2) Client wanted a technology with a large local pool of talent he  
>>> could hire - robotcoop is nearby (spinoff of amazon.com) - they  
>>> are all rails and it is easy to hire people from there
>>> 3) I had a lot of UI that is back office and can be kind of ugyly/
>>> auto-generated and only a little public UI (ticket purchase flow)
>>> 4) Rails has a number of scalable deployment recipes available -  
>>> I'm using apache->mongrel cluster.   I will add capistrano to  
>>> automate upgrade deployments
>>> 5) I'm replacing an equivalent system written in a nightmare  
>>> combination of Java/Hibernate/Cocoon-js/xml-xslt/tomcat that  
>>> nobody wants to maintain.  I can't learn that many languages - but  
>>> I most certainly can steal/translate logic and templates - it was  
>>> easy to translate jsp to rhtml templates.
>>>
>>> For your amusement - the entirety of the order/ordertransaction/
>>> ticket code is below - it does a two level master-detail view with  
>>> ajax updates in a single page.  It took me almost no time at all  
>>> to get this working and the majority of the code you see is just  
>>> appearance tweaks or action disabling.
>>>
>>>
>>> :
>>> #model - (all of it - really)
>>> class Order < ActiveRecord::Base
>>>   set_table_name 'orders'
>>>   has_many :order_transactions, :class_name =>  
>>> 'OrderTransaction', :foreign_key => 'order_id', :dependent  
>>> => :destroy
>>>   belongs_to :purchaseTransaction, :class_name =>  
>>> 'TicketPurchase', :foreign_key => 'purchaseTransaction'
>>> end
>>>
>>> class OrderTransaction < ActiveRecord::Base
>>>   has_many :ticketsReturned, :class_name => 'Ticket', :foreign_key  
>>> => 'returnTransaction', :include => [:price, :product], :dependent  
>>> => :destroy, :order => 'sequence_number'
>>>   has_many :ticketsAdded, :class_name => 'Ticket', :foreign_key =>  
>>> 'originatingTransaction', :include =>  
>>> [:price, :product], :dependent => :destroy, :order =>  
>>> 'sequence_number'
>>>
>>> class TicketPurchase <  OrderTransaction
>>> end
>>>
>>> class TicketExchange <  OrderTransaction
>>> end
>>>
>>> class TicketReturn <  OrderTransaction
>>> end
>>>
>>> class Ticket < ActiveRecord::Base
>>> end
>>>
>>> #controllers - tops is most complicated - remove create update and  
>>> delete abilities - add some action links (all of it)
>>> class Admin::OrderController < AdminController
>>>   layout "admin"
>>>   active_scaffold :orders do | config |
>>>     config.actions.exclude :delete
>>>     config.actions.exclude :update
>>>     config.actions.exclude :create
>>>     config.action_links.add :resend_email, :label => 'Resend  
>>> Email', :type => :record, :position => false, :confirm => 'Resend  
>>> purchase confirmation email?'
>>>     config.action_links.add :exchange_tickets, :label => 'Exchange  
>>> Tickets', :type => :record, :position => :after, :crud_type  
>>> => :update
>>>     config.action_links.add :refund_tickets, :label => 'Refund  
>>> Tickets', :type => :record, :position => :after, :crud_type  
>>> => :update
>>>       list.sorting = {:date => 'ASC'}
>>>       config.list.columns =  
>>> [:date
>>> , :commissionAccount
>>> , :nameFirst, :nameLast, :emailAddress, :order_transactions]
>>>       config.list.per_page = 100
>>>       config.columns =  
>>> [:date
>>> , :commissionAccount
>>> , :nameFirst
>>> , :nameLast
>>> , :emailAddress
>>> , :address1
>>> , :address2, :city, :state, :zip, :country, :order_transactions]
>>>   end
>>> end
>>>
>>> class Admin::OrderTransactionController < AdminController
>>> layout "admin"
>>> active_scaffold :order_transaction do | config |
>>>   config.list.columns =  
>>> [:date
>>> , :type
>>> , :channel, :payment, :credit, :ticketsAdded, :ticketsReturned]
>>>   config.actions.exclude :delete
>>>   config.actions.exclude :update
>>>   config.actions.exclude :create
>>> end
>>> end
>>>
>>> class Admin::TicketController < AdminController
>>> layout "admin"
>>> active_scaffold :ticket do | config |
>>>   config.list.columns =  
>>> [:forGto
>>> , :validForDate
>>> , :product, :price, :status, :purchasePrice, :serviceCharge, :order]
>>>   config.list.per_page = 100
>>>   list.sorting = {:validForDate => 'ASC'}
>>>   columns[:validForDate].label = "Date"
>>>   columns[:product].label = "Description"
>>>   columns[:price].label = "Ticket"
>>>   columns[:purchasePrice].label = "Price"
>>>   columns[:serviceCharge].label = "Service Charge"
>>>   config.actions.exclude :delete
>>>   config.actions.exclude :update
>>>   config.actions.exclude :create
>>> end
>>>
>>> #views - auto-generated - no code at all
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2008, at 12:47 AM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>
>>>> todd
>>>> do you think that magritte could help there?
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>> On May 31, 2008, at 1:04 AM, Todd Blanchard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I watched the screencast.  It is not the same thing.  I think  
>>>>> you guys are missing something key in that project of yours.
>>>>>
>>>>> Active scaffold simply lets me point the app at a db and ZAM  
>>>>> total admin UI that looks nice with AJAX master detail editing.  
>>>>> I can then filter out attributes that people ought not to edit,  
>>>>> apply permissions, and decorate the app with task links.
>>>>>
>>>>> The demo shows app development.  I didn't develop a thing apart  
>>>>> from specify some mappings because the database used weird and  
>>>>> inconsistent naming conventions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also found it interesting that the app being developed in the  
>>>>> screencast didn't look nearly as sophisticated as the tools  
>>>>> being used to build it.  I don't find that a good selling point.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Todd Blanchard
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 30, 2008, at 4:28 AM, James Robertson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cincom is doing exactly that - combining the ActiveRecord  
>>>>>> pattern with scaffolding.  Have a look here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/mls/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=WebVelocity_alpha_screencast&entry=3388846573
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James Robertson
>>>>>> Cincom Smalltalk Product Evangelist
>>>>>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView
>>>>>> Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 30, 2008, at 3:13 AM, Todd Blanchard wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With the idea that no good idea should go un-stolen, allow me  
>>>>>>> to introduce seaside fans to active scaffold http://activescaffold.com 
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am wrapping up a ruby on rails engagement with a client and  
>>>>>>> discovered this framework.  I ended up using ROR because the  
>>>>>>> client had an existing mysql database and Squeak's mysql  
>>>>>>> support isn't so hot where rails is all about mysql, and I had  
>>>>>>> only a couple "flows" but a whole lot of plain old admin-CRUD  
>>>>>>> to do and rails excels at plain crud on mysql.  With  
>>>>>>> activescaffold - I had to write very little code for the admin  
>>>>>>> UI - a major plus because this project is on a very tight  
>>>>>>> timeline.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyhow, activescaffold works with activerecord and infers a  
>>>>>>> really slick AJAX UI that supports sensible CRUD more or less  
>>>>>>> instantly.  Once installed, you can go through and customize  
>>>>>>> views by adding actions links, filtering columns, and  
>>>>>>> generally overriding bits of logic to make it more task focused.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would be really cool to have a similar facility in Seaside.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> -Todd Blanchard
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> seaside mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> seaside mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ 
>>>>>> seaside
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> seaside mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> seaside mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> seaside mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>

>> A VERY common problem one finds on the web is the desire to have an  
>> instant
>> community website with forums, a blog, some static content  
>> (marketing info
>> or instructional manuals) and a little store to charge money for  
>> things.
>> Google 'integrate phpbb wordpress' to get a feel for how many  
>> people want to
>> do this.
>>
> I find myself also needing these features.
>
> Currently I have a fledgling application that has a major google  maps
> component and requires  features typical in a community based site:
> user administration, forums, messages, comments etc.  Plus a small
> amount of server side code to manage the maps.
>
> Unfortunately Pier does not contain the extensive feature set
> available in many OS forum projects.  Currently under consideration is
> Vanila http://getvanilla.com/
>
> My client would prefer to use MySql,  and as much as it may be derided
> as an RDBMS,  for 95% of  projects it is good enough. It is the
> defacto standard server side dbms.  Squeak must learn how to play well
> with MySql to be considered in the mix of open source solutions.
>
> I haven't as yet written Seaside out of the picture, and I personally
> love using smalltalk, but also need to write applications with the
> best available and feature rich components and just now Seaside is not
> hitting the mark.
>
> --
> Edward Stow
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>

> So may be we should really do a call for a bounty:
> if we all put a bit of money and ESUG is pushing then we should
> be able to create something.
> I imagine that ESUG could put around 2500 Euros to start.
>
> Stef
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2008, at 4:53 AM, Edward Stow wrote:
>
>>> A VERY common problem one finds on the web is the desire to have an  instant
>>> community website with forums, a blog, some static content  (marketing info
>>> or instructional manuals) and a little store to charge money for  things.
>>> Google 'integrate phpbb wordpress' to get a feel for how many  people want to
>>> do this.
>>>
>> I find myself also needing these features.
>>
>> Currently I have a fledgling application that has a major google  maps
>> component and requires  features typical in a community based site:
>> user administration, forums, messages, comments etc.  Plus a small
>> amount of server side code to manage the maps.
>>
>> Unfortunately Pier does not contain the extensive feature set
>> available in many OS forum projects.  Currently under consideration is
>> Vanila http://getvanilla.com/
>>
>> My client would prefer to use MySql,  and as much as it may be derided
>> as an RDBMS,  for 95% of  projects it is good enough. It is the
>> defacto standard server side dbms.  Squeak must learn how to play well
>> with MySql to be considered in the mix of open source solutions.
>>
>> I haven't as yet written Seaside out of the picture, and I personally
>> love using smalltalk, but also need to write applications with the
>> best available and feature rich components and just now Seaside is not
>> hitting the mark.
>>
>> --
>> Edward Stow
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> Maybe is time to start thinking in a "Seaside full stack"?
>
> I think there are some tasks we (as a community) should do for  
> enforce seaside adoption, that does not belong to seaside it self,  
> but would be cool to have.
>
> I think we need to cover:
> - Persistence for the Seaside (maybe a "Coral" project?)
> I think this as an abstraction layer with you can choose between a  
> magma solution and a glorp solution.
> - Integration for the Seaside ("FlyingFish", "Shipyard"?)
> an abstraction layer to publicate and consume web services (awful  
> but necesary for productive applications) and maybe another and  
> coolest integration ways, such as hessian.
> - And of course, a "Describe it all" ("Voyage"?)
> based on magritte, we should provide a way to do all of this in a  
> clean and elegant way.
>
> What do you think?
>
> On 2008-06-02 03:45:50 -0300, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]
> > said:
>
>> So may be we should really do a call for a bounty:
>> if we all put a bit of money and ESUG is pushing then we should
>> be able to create something.
>> I imagine that ESUG could put around 2500 Euros to start.
>> Stef
>> On Jun 2, 2008, at 4:53 AM, Edward Stow wrote:
>>>> A VERY common problem one finds on the web is the desire to have  
>>>> an  instant
>>>> community website with forums, a blog, some static content  
>>>> (marketing info
>>>> or instructional manuals) and a little store to charge money for  
>>>> things.
>>>> Google 'integrate phpbb wordpress' to get a feel for how many  
>>>> people want to
>>>> do this.
>>> I find myself also needing these features.
>>> Currently I have a fledgling application that has a major google  
>>> maps
>>> component and requires  features typical in a community based site:
>>> user administration, forums, messages, comments etc.  Plus a small
>>> amount of server side code to manage the maps.
>>> Unfortunately Pier does not contain the extensive feature set
>>> available in many OS forum projects.  Currently under  
>>> consideration is
>>> Vanila http://getvanilla.com/
>>> My client would prefer to use MySql,  and as much as it may be  
>>> derided
>>> as an RDBMS,  for 95% of  projects it is good enough. It is the
>>> defacto standard server side dbms.  Squeak must learn how to play  
>>> well
>>> with MySql to be considered in the mix of open source solutions.
>>> I haven't as yet written Seaside out of the picture, and I  
>>> personally
>>> love using smalltalk, but also need to write applications with the
>>> best available and feature rich components and just now Seaside is  
>>> not
>>> hitting the mark.
>>> --
>>> Edward Stow
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> seaside mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>

> stephane ducasse wrote:
>> Lukas decided to package pier in a more user friendly way.
>> So we will really start using it.
>
> I am not sure I understand the first sentence.
>
> Has this packaging already been done?
> If so which version? 2.8, 2.9, ...?
>
> If not any idea when?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jimmie
>
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>

> Hi, it's very good to hear some of the comments in regards to Seaside.
>  Thus, where can I find a list of Seaside todos?  Is there a Seaside
> road-map?  I would like to contribute to the success of Seaside but I don't
> know the high-level development details of the project.  I just don't want
> to build something that's not needed or someone is working on a component
> with similar functionality.  Thus, it's not clear on how to proceed  at this
> point in time.
> -Conrad
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 9:02 PM, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry I was using package in the marketing sense.
>> To market it better (= easier for beginners to use).
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Jun 3, 2008, at 12:27 AM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
>>
>>> stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Lukas decided to package pier in a more user friendly way.
>>>> So we will really start using it.
>>>
>>> I am not sure I understand the first sentence.
>>>
>>> Has this packaging already been done?
>>> If so which version? 2.8, 2.9, ...?
>>>
>>> If not any idea when?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Jimmie
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> seaside mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
>
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>