Improving communication and roadmap

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Improving communication and roadmap

stepharo
Hi guys

I have a general comments.
Doru in a recent email you complain that people may (and it was not the
case) think that GT was out of Pharo.
Now I think that the group does not mention clearly enough his plans.
And in general groups (like rmod too).


For example, we just get that there is a support for code critics.
About the Quality Assistant of Yuriy I have been discussing regularly
with him to make sure that I
would not launch something that would compete with him and that I do not
pay a student for
something in concurrence.
I discussed with Alberto student that should work on improving
Ecompletion and I change the topic of
a guy coming to work with us.

So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on
what people are doing.
For example starting 1 of april
     Franck will work on improving pretty printing
     Merwane will work on 3D and event touch
     Thomas will work on code review
     Cyril will work on pillar improvements
     Kevin on decompiler
     Julien on remote environment or new collection

So what do you think. For me I think that this is important.
Because I would like to lower frustration.

Stef

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Re: Improving communication and roadmap

Sean P. DeNigris
Administrator
stepharo wrote
So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on
what people are doing.
Thank you! This is great. I've also been hesitant to work on certain things (e.g. cleaning up Morphic events) because I didn't want to unintentionally overlap with someone else's work.
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: Improving communication and roadmap

Tudor Girba-2
In reply to this post by stepharo
Hi Stef,

On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 8:52 AM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi guys

I have a general comments.
Doru in a recent email you complain that people may (and it was not the case) think that GT was out of Pharo.

I did not complain. I just noticed how several times there it was argued that something is imposed from GT onto Pharo and that because <example> is in a certain way only in GT it somehow plays a secondary importance. This implies that collectively, we reason about GT as being separate from Pharo.

 
Now I think that the group does not mention clearly enough his plans. 
And in general groups (like rmod too).
 
We worked only on the things we announced since the PharoDays in January:
- Spotter
- Inspector/Playground
- Chatter


For example, we just get that there is a support for code critics.

You just get the news because it just happened days before the announcement of Uko. And this was not following a big master plan. It was a mere couple of hours of playing around with implementing more examples of how to use Spotter by Stefan Reichhart (the newest GT team member).

Please look back, and you will notice that every significant feature that is released comes with a prominent description on http://humane-assessment.com. And along the way we also describe examples of how to use GT. I honestly do not know how to provide more.


About the Quality Assistant of Yuriy I have been discussing regularly with him to make sure that I
would not launch something that would compete with him and that I do not pay a student for
something in concurrence.
I discussed with Alberto student that should work on improving Ecompletion and I change the topic of
a guy coming to work with us.
So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing.
For example starting 1 of april
    Franck will work on improving pretty printing
    Merwane will work on 3D and event touch
    Thomas will work on code review
    Cyril will work on pillar improvements
    Kevin on decompiler
    Julien on remote environment or new collection

That is welcome information, which was indeed opaque until now.

On Tuesday we will organize a working session in Bern on the Pharo IDE with exactly the goal of supporting more exchange.

 
So what do you think. For me I think that this is important.
Because I would like to lower frustration.

What is the concrete proposal? To send emails here when we know we are switching topics? We did that regarding GT and it seems to not be enough. What else is needed?

Cheers,
Doru

--

"Every thing has its own flow"
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Re: Improving communication and roadmap

Tudor Girba-2
In reply to this post by Sean P. DeNigris
I think the fear that someone else might do something similar should not stop action.

Having multiple solutions to choose from is a good thing :)

Cheers,
Doru

On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
stepharo wrote
> So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on
> what people are doing.

Thank you! This is great. I've also been hesitant to work on certain things
(e.g. cleaning up Morphic events) because I didn't want to unintentionally
overlap with someone else's work.



-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Improving-communication-and-roadmap-tp4815705p4815753.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




--

"Every thing has its own flow"
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Re: Improving communication and roadmap

kilon.alios
the advantage of a roadmap is that allows people that can agree on principle on a specific kind of approach can work together as a team towards a common goal under the same project.

People who cant find someone else to agree with them, or dont like the existing solutions can always follow their own path and create their own code. On other hand those kind of people can also benefit from a roadmap because a roadmap is always an attractive force for contributors.

When I (used here generally not just to refer to me) know what your intention is with this code in the future , I will be far more willing to help you out if our goals are common. If not then roadmap can still be useful if I dont want our two projects , mine and yours to overlap.

So a roadmap is a win win situation.

And I dont even need to go into the advantages of planning ahead.

On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 5:05 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think the fear that someone else might do something similar should not stop action.

Having multiple solutions to choose from is a good thing :)

Cheers,
Doru

On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
stepharo wrote
> So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on
> what people are doing.

Thank you! This is great. I've also been hesitant to work on certain things
(e.g. cleaning up Morphic events) because I didn't want to unintentionally
overlap with someone else's work.



-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Improving-communication-and-roadmap-tp4815705p4815753.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




--

"Every thing has its own flow"

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Re: Improving communication and roadmap

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2

> On 28 Mar 2015, at 16:05, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think the fear that someone else might do something similar should not stop action.
>
> Having multiple solutions to choose from is a good thing :)

+1

We need options, backups, alternatives, it is a free world, and nothing is set in stone.

> Cheers,
> Doru
>
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> stepharo wrote
> > So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on
> > what people are doing.
>
> Thank you! This is great. I've also been hesitant to work on certain things
> (e.g. cleaning up Morphic events) because I didn't want to unintentionally
> overlap with someone else's work.
>
>
>
> -----
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Improving-communication-and-roadmap-tp4815705p4815753.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Every thing has its own flow"


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Re: Improving communication and roadmap

Sean P. DeNigris
Administrator
In reply to this post by kilon.alios
> the advantage of a roadmap is that allows people that can agree on principle on a specific kind of approach can work together as a team towards a common goal under the same project.
Yes! For example, with event handling, it's not so much that I didn't want to offer a cool alternative, but that in the limited time I have to work on it, I'd prefer to benefit from the extensive research and design decisions that no doubt have already been done as others have looked at the problem, instead of starting from scratch. Plus, there are plenty of other areas to occupy me that are not being worked on AFAIK.

Also, it would also be a great way to document design decisions, both to align us now, and also for the future. One of the things that I often feel holding me back is that I have no idea what the design decisions were, and so fear that something important (e.g. flexibility, future extension, etc) may be lost by cleaning and simplifying. For example, when we created distinct WorldMorphs vs. PasteUpMorphs, we lost the ability to promote PasteUps to act as the world. How important was that? IDK. But I only realized after because the design was IMHO a bit unclear and AFAICT undocumented.
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: Improving communication and roadmap

abergel
In reply to this post by stepharo
>    Merwane will work on 3D and event touch

Glad to hear this! I guess this is related to what Pierre will do with the events.
It would be great that Merwane will sync with us on this. What does he plan to do? Will he worked on top of Woden? Can we get in touch about this?

Cheers,
Alexandre

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.




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Re: Improving communication and roadmap

stepharo
In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

>> On 28 Mar 2015, at 16:05, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I think the fear that someone else might do something similar should not stop action.
>>
>> Having multiple solutions to choose from is a good thing :)
> +1
>
> We need options, backups, alternatives, it is a free world, and nothing is set in stone.

I'm not against options. I'm proposing to have a map and to be able to
take decisions about options knowing what
others are doing.
Now if you do not want to know what we are doing internally then people
should not cry if one day with discard works
of somebody else because we planned and are working on something.
So to me this is simple:
     you just say: I'm working on X with a 2 line description and this
is it.

Stef

>
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> stepharo wrote
>>> So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on
>>> what people are doing.
>> Thank you! This is great. I've also been hesitant to work on certain things
>> (e.g. cleaning up Morphic events) because I didn't want to unintentionally
>> overlap with someone else's work.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Cheers,
>> Sean
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Improving-communication-and-roadmap-tp4815705p4815753.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>
>> "Every thing has its own flow"
>
>


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Re: Improving communication and roadmap

stepharo
In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2


On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 8:52 AM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi guys

I have a general comments.
Doru in a recent email you complain that people may (and it was not the case) think that GT was out of Pharo.

I did not complain. I just noticed how several times there it was argued that something is imposed from GT onto Pharo and that because <example> is in a certain way only in GT it somehow plays a secondary importance. This implies that collectively, we reason about GT as being separate from Pharo.

I do not know. But having the visibility is what I propose.
 
Now I think that the group does not mention clearly enough his plans. 
And in general groups (like rmod too).
 
We worked only on the things we announced since the PharoDays in January:
- Spotter
- Inspector/Playground
- Chatter


For example, we just get that there is a support for code critics.

You just get the news because it just happened days before the announcement of Uko. And this was not following a big master plan. It was a mere couple of hours of playing around with implementing more examples of how to use Spotter by Stefan Reichhart (the newest GT team member).

Please look back, and you will notice that every significant feature that is released comes with a prominent description on http://humane-assessment.com. And along the way we also describe examples of how to use GT. I honestly do not know how to provide more.

What I'm saying.
Ok let me repeat it.
Is that if we have a place where a guy can come and see the list of people working on different topics
then he can know who to ask or pay attention when starting something.


About the Quality Assistant of Yuriy I have been discussing regularly with him to make sure that I
would not launch something that would compete with him and that I do not pay a student for
something in concurrence.
I discussed with Alberto student that should work on improving Ecompletion and I change the topic of
a guy coming to work with us.
So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing.
For example starting 1 of april
    Franck will work on improving pretty printing
    Merwane will work on 3D and event touch
    Thomas will work on code review
    Cyril will work on pillar improvements
    Kevin on decompiler
    Julien on remote environment or new collection

That is welcome information, which was indeed opaque until now.

Indeed because it was not announced and I propose to have a better way to do it.
We usually sak every student to do an announce to the mailing-list when they start to work on some topics
to get exposure/feedback and ideas.
Now we could just have one page with this information.


On Tuesday we will organize a working session in Bern on the Pharo IDE with exactly the goal of supporting more exchange.

 
So what do you think. For me I think that this is important.
Because I would like to lower frustration.

What is the concrete proposal? To send emails here when we know we are switching topics? We did that regarding GT and it seems to not be enough. What else is needed?

Doru.
I'm not talking only about GT.
Now I can keep the projects we are planning to work on for us and do not pay attention to people but it will be counterproductive and generating
frustration. But this is ok for me.
I just suggest that we get a page even on github with a list of topics and people + status



Cheers,
Doru

--

"Every thing has its own flow"

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Re: Improving communication and roadmap

stepharo
In reply to this post by abergel

>>     Merwane will work on 3D and event touch
> Glad to hear this! I guess this is related to what Pierre will do with the events.

Pierre contacted JB (again because I sent him the info and this is
ad-hoc). This is why I propose a blackboard.
JB started to work on improving OSWindow multitouch support.
Now all the SDL events are reified.
JB started to port a kind of reactive library in ruby to see if we want
to use that to
identify gesture and raise events.

JB worked on it without being paid. From Monday
Merwane is joining and will help probably more on the 3d aspects.
If pierre wants to help/sync he is welcomed.

Our goal is to have
     - basic events for all devices and blob reported
     - advanced event (like scrolling when you have two fingers on mac)
raised
     - be able to specifiy how such events are recognised.

I ported the 1D recogniser from Squeak to Pharo and there are two other
recognisers to be ported from JS to Java
and we should check Genie's code to see if we can reuse it.

Stef
>  
> It would be great that Merwane will sync with us on this. What does he plan to do? Will he worked on top of Woden? Can we get in touch about this?
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
>


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Re: Improving communication and roadmap

Tudor Girba-2
In reply to this post by stepharo
Ok.

So, where do we put this board?

Cheers,
Doru


On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 7:15 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 8:52 AM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi guys

I have a general comments.
Doru in a recent email you complain that people may (and it was not the case) think that GT was out of Pharo.

I did not complain. I just noticed how several times there it was argued that something is imposed from GT onto Pharo and that because <example> is in a certain way only in GT it somehow plays a secondary importance. This implies that collectively, we reason about GT as being separate from Pharo.

I do not know. But having the visibility is what I propose.
 
Now I think that the group does not mention clearly enough his plans. 
And in general groups (like rmod too).
 
We worked only on the things we announced since the PharoDays in January:
- Spotter
- Inspector/Playground
- Chatter


For example, we just get that there is a support for code critics.

You just get the news because it just happened days before the announcement of Uko. And this was not following a big master plan. It was a mere couple of hours of playing around with implementing more examples of how to use Spotter by Stefan Reichhart (the newest GT team member).

Please look back, and you will notice that every significant feature that is released comes with a prominent description on http://humane-assessment.com. And along the way we also describe examples of how to use GT. I honestly do not know how to provide more.

What I'm saying.
Ok let me repeat it.
Is that if we have a place where a guy can come and see the list of people working on different topics
then he can know who to ask or pay attention when starting something.


About the Quality Assistant of Yuriy I have been discussing regularly with him to make sure that I
would not launch something that would compete with him and that I do not pay a student for
something in concurrence.
I discussed with Alberto student that should work on improving Ecompletion and I change the topic of
a guy coming to work with us.
So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing.
For example starting 1 of april
    Franck will work on improving pretty printing
    Merwane will work on 3D and event touch
    Thomas will work on code review
    Cyril will work on pillar improvements
    Kevin on decompiler
    Julien on remote environment or new collection

That is welcome information, which was indeed opaque until now.

Indeed because it was not announced and I propose to have a better way to do it.
We usually sak every student to do an announce to the mailing-list when they start to work on some topics
to get exposure/feedback and ideas.
Now we could just have one page with this information.


On Tuesday we will organize a working session in Bern on the Pharo IDE with exactly the goal of supporting more exchange.

 
So what do you think. For me I think that this is important.
Because I would like to lower frustration.

What is the concrete proposal? To send emails here when we know we are switching topics? We did that regarding GT and it seems to not be enough. What else is needed?

Doru.
I'm not talking only about GT.
Now I can keep the projects we are planning to work on for us and do not pay attention to people but it will be counterproductive and generating
frustration. But this is ok for me.
I just suggest that we get a page even on github with a list of topics and people + status



Cheers,
Doru

--

"Every thing has its own flow"




--

"Every thing has its own flow"
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Re: Improving communication and roadmap

stepharo
I do not know may on the side of roadmap on github

We can use markdown to have a readable format now it can be boring because linear

Stef


Le 29/3/15 20:15, Tudor Girba a écrit :
Ok.

So, where do we put this board?

Cheers,
Doru


On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 7:15 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 8:52 AM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi guys

I have a general comments.
Doru in a recent email you complain that people may (and it was not the case) think that GT was out of Pharo.

I did not complain. I just noticed how several times there it was argued that something is imposed from GT onto Pharo and that because <example> is in a certain way only in GT it somehow plays a secondary importance. This implies that collectively, we reason about GT as being separate from Pharo.

I do not know. But having the visibility is what I propose.
 
Now I think that the group does not mention clearly enough his plans. 
And in general groups (like rmod too).
 
We worked only on the things we announced since the PharoDays in January:
- Spotter
- Inspector/Playground
- Chatter


For example, we just get that there is a support for code critics.

You just get the news because it just happened days before the announcement of Uko. And this was not following a big master plan. It was a mere couple of hours of playing around with implementing more examples of how to use Spotter by Stefan Reichhart (the newest GT team member).

Please look back, and you will notice that every significant feature that is released comes with a prominent description on http://humane-assessment.com. And along the way we also describe examples of how to use GT. I honestly do not know how to provide more.

What I'm saying.
Ok let me repeat it.
Is that if we have a place where a guy can come and see the list of people working on different topics
then he can know who to ask or pay attention when starting something.


About the Quality Assistant of Yuriy I have been discussing regularly with him to make sure that I
would not launch something that would compete with him and that I do not pay a student for
something in concurrence.
I discussed with Alberto student that should work on improving Ecompletion and I change the topic of
a guy coming to work with us.
So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing.
For example starting 1 of april
    Franck will work on improving pretty printing
    Merwane will work on 3D and event touch
    Thomas will work on code review
    Cyril will work on pillar improvements
    Kevin on decompiler
    Julien on remote environment or new collection

That is welcome information, which was indeed opaque until now.

Indeed because it was not announced and I propose to have a better way to do it.
We usually sak every student to do an announce to the mailing-list when they start to work on some topics
to get exposure/feedback and ideas.
Now we could just have one page with this information.


On Tuesday we will organize a working session in Bern on the Pharo IDE with exactly the goal of supporting more exchange.

 
So what do you think. For me I think that this is important.
Because I would like to lower frustration.

What is the concrete proposal? To send emails here when we know we are switching topics? We did that regarding GT and it seems to not be enough. What else is needed?

Doru.
I'm not talking only about GT.
Now I can keep the projects we are planning to work on for us and do not pay attention to people but it will be counterproductive and generating
frustration. But this is ok for me.
I just suggest that we get a page even on github with a list of topics and people + status



Cheers,
Doru

--

"Every thing has its own flow"




--

"Every thing has its own flow"