InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

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InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

horrido
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html

Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!

This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
A blank.

Nothing happened to this project in more than a year

  https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master

It is mostly vapourware and has no users.

People following the links on the article will soon find out.

Just sad.

> On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html
> <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html>  
>
> Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
>
> This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word
> about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>


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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

sebastianconcept@gmail.co
In reply to this post by horrido
And James got pretty close to the goal of this campaign:

Interestingly, being so close, a little bit of PR at the right time could have done a difference.

Something to think about

Congratulations for the mention Richard! totally earned


On Jan 14, 2015, at 8:40 PM, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html
<http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html>  

Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!

This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word
about the campaign as far and wide as I could.



--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

Esteban A. Maringolo
In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
Picking up and promoting inactive projects just to put a tick on a
feature's checkbox can backfire big time.

If there is one thing I've been always proud as a Smtalltalker is that
we don't sell hype or vaporware, rather the contrary (which is also a failure).

I'm all in to embrace an aggressive PR campaign, but only if properly curated.

Regards!

Esteban A. Maringolo


2015-01-14 19:55 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]>:

> A blank.
>
> Nothing happened to this project in more than a year
>
>   https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master
>
> It is mostly vapourware and has no users.
>
> People following the links on the article will soon find out.
>
> Just sad.
>
>> On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html
>> <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html>
>>
>> Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
>>
>> This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word
>> about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>
>

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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

ccrraaiigg
In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

Hi Sven--

> Nothing happened to this project in more than a year... It is mostly >
vapourware and has no users. People following the links on the
> article will soon find out.

     Well, perhaps this reminder will stimulate some interest.


-C

--
Craig Latta
netjam.org
+31   6 2757 7177 (SMS ok)
+ 1 415  287 3547 (no SMS)


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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

sebastianconcept@gmail.co
In reply to this post by Esteban A. Maringolo
On the other hand we are fragmented and compartamentalized big time.

It’s 2015 and I never had hear about this before (from 2013):

Something like that would give you the power of all the Java libraries.

Are you feeling it?

That’s exactly the propeller that Clojure has used to go where it is now.



On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:24 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <[hidden email]> wrote:

Picking up and promoting inactive projects just to put a tick on a
feature's checkbox can backfire big time.

If there is one thing I've been always proud as a Smtalltalker is that
we don't sell hype or vaporware, rather the contrary (which is also a failure).

I'm all in to embrace an aggressive PR campaign, but only if properly curated.

Regards!

Esteban A. Maringolo


2015-01-14 19:55 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]>:
A blank.

Nothing happened to this project in more than a year

 https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master

It is mostly vapourware and has no users.

People following the links on the article will soon find out.

Just sad.

On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html
<http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html>

Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!

This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word
about the campaign as far and wide as I could.



--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.





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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

sebastianconcept@gmail.co
In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg

On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:29 PM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Sven--

Nothing happened to this project in more than a year... It is mostly >
vapourware and has no users. People following the links on the
article will soon find out.

    Well, perhaps this reminder will stimulate some interest.


totally +1 

The guy only needs 4K and this gets to 1.0? 

We’re nutz if that doesn’t happen


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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

Esteban A. Maringolo

Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can also get you bitten. :)

El ene 14, 2015 8:33 PM, "Sebastian Sastre" <[hidden email]> escribió:

On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:29 PM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Sven--

Nothing happened to this project in more than a year... It is mostly >
vapourware and has no users. People following the links on the
article will soon find out.

    Well, perhaps this reminder will stimulate some interest.


totally +1 

The guy only needs 4K and this gets to 1.0? 

We’re nutz if that doesn’t happen


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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

ccrraaiigg

> Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can
> also get you bitten. :)

     Sure, and shaking the hive too rarely will get you starved.


-C

--
Craig Latta
netjam.org
+31   6 2757 7177 (SMS ok)
+ 1 415  287 3547 (no SMS)


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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

stepharo
In reply to this post by sebastianconcept@gmail.co

Le 15/1/15 00:30, Sebastian Sastre a écrit :
On the other hand we are fragmented and compartamentalized big time.




It’s 2015 and I never had hear about this before (from 2013):

Something like that would give you the power of all the Java libraries.

Are you feeling it?

That’s exactly the propeller that Clojure has used to go where it is now.



On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:24 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <[hidden email]> wrote:

Picking up and promoting inactive projects just to put a tick on a
feature's checkbox can backfire big time.

If there is one thing I've been always proud as a Smtalltalker is that
we don't sell hype or vaporware, rather the contrary (which is also a failure).

I'm all in to embrace an aggressive PR campaign, but only if properly curated.

Regards!

Esteban A. Maringolo


2015-01-14 19:55 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]>:
A blank.

Nothing happened to this project in more than a year

 https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master

It is mostly vapourware and has no users.

People following the links on the article will soon find out.

Just sad.

On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html
<http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html>

Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!

This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word
about the campaign as far and wide as I could.



--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.






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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

kilon.alios
In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg
Lets see the big picture here, if you take a look at TIOBE INDEX or LANGPOP or the internet at large you get a clear picture about java based languages . Popularity wise they have been a ultimate failure. Right now the only language that is barely noticable is Scala and even Scala is nowhere near as popular as the less popular languages like Pascal, Delphi and Visual Basic. Of course each website gives diffirent numbers but those numbers are just different in only few percentage units. 


http://langpop.com/

Hype also does not help those languages either. Take a look at Clojure , one of the most overhyped languages out there not just on JVM but anywhere, in both websites I mentioned Clojure like Pharo does not make it even in top 50. Tons of blogs post about Clojure only, tons of praise, and praise and praise. 

I can say about jython itself , a python implementation for the JVM and ironpython which is python for .NET are barely noticable in the python world with cpython gathering at least 99.9% of the attention. 

So its a really hard situation . Coding has become extremely complex and demanding , coders want languages are deeply documented and come with tons of libraries so its very hard for new languages to kick in. Also the assumption that because you love a language you will be willing to start using java libraries seems to have failed miserably. These languages seem more appealing to java developers and java developers dont seem willing to abandon Java any time soon. 

So as always Java death has been greatly exaggerated. 

The situation for Javascript based languages is even worse. 

So frankly what has happened with Redline is pretty normal. 

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can
> also get you bitten. :)

     Sure, and shaking the hive too rarely will get you starved.


-C

--
Craig Latta
netjam.org
<a href="tel:%2B31%20%20%206%202757%207177" value="+31627577177">+31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok)
<a href="tel:%2B%201%20415%20%20287%203547" value="+14152873547">+ 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)



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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

sebastianconcept@gmail.co
In reply to this post by Esteban A. Maringolo

On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:44 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can also get you bitten. :)

And what’s the news on that?

The world is full of people paralysed by fear.

Scared people is not worth following (they are not going to invent any interesting future).

The ones who dear to do different are way more interesting.

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R: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

Lorenzo

+1

 

Lorenzo

 

Da: Pharo-dev [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Sebastian Sastre
Inviato: giovedì 15 gennaio 2015 12:56
A: Pharo Development List
Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-dev] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

 

 

On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:44 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <[hidden email]> wrote:

 

Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can also get you bitten. :)

 

And what’s the news on that?

 

The world is full of people paralysed by fear.

 

Scared people is not worth following (they are not going to invent any interesting future).

 

The ones who dear to do different are way more interesting.

 

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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

horrido
In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
Actually, Redline is quite alive. There's a brand new repo: https://github.com/jamesladd/stc

James just hasn't gotten around to normalizing all the links at his website.

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
A blank.

Nothing happened to this project in more than a year

  https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master

It is mostly vapourware and has no users.

People following the links on the article will soon find out.

Just sad.

> On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html
> <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html> 
>
> Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
>
> This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word
> about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

horrido
In reply to this post by sebastianconcept@gmail.co
I agree. I'm excited by Redline. We really do need a Smalltalk presence on the JVM. The JVM is the closest thing we have right now to a "standard" enterprise platform. (I guess I should mention .NET too, but I hate Windows lock-in.) Java is the strongest language here, but Scala, Groovy, and Clojure have some measure of success.

sebastian@flowingconcept.com wrote
> On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:29 PM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Sven--
>
>> Nothing happened to this project in more than a year... It is mostly >
> vapourware and has no users. People following the links on the
>> article will soon find out.
>
>     Well, perhaps this reminder will stimulate some interest.
>

totally +1

The guy only needs 4K and this gets to 1.0?

We’re nutz if that doesn’t happen
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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
In reply to this post by horrido
Yes, it is very alive: 20 commits in year or so.

Pharo 4 has about 1700 in about the same time (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core). And that is just one silly, inaccurate metric.

My point is, there are a couple of great Smalltalk implementations that contain an incredible number of man-years of effort in their images (the best being Pharo of course, but I am biased ;-), we can only achieve a high quality platform by working together. The number of different competences needed to successfully build a *COMPLETE* software platform can *NEVER* be achieved by 'a couple of guys' let alone one individual.

Now, it is not that they can not do so, of course they can, we need wild and crazy ideas and research, but it is just wrong to see such experiments as what should be promoted now.

IMHO, of course.

> On 15 Jan 2015, at 15:19, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Actually, Redline is quite alive. There's a brand new repo:
> https://github.com/jamesladd/stc <https://github.com/jamesladd/stc>  
>
> James just hasn't gotten around to normalizing all the links at his website.
>
>
> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>> A blank.
>>
>> Nothing happened to this project in more than a year
>>
>>  https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master
>>
>> It is mostly vapourware and has no users.
>>
>> People following the links on the article will soon find out.
>>
>> Just sad.
>>
>>> On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido &lt;
>
>> horrido.hobbies@
>
>> &gt; wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html
>>> &lt;http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html&gt; 
>>>
>>> Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
>>>
>>> This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word
>>> about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html
>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at
>>> Nabble.com.
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799699.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

horrido
In reply to this post by kilon.alios
As I've written elsewhere, I believe the TIOBE index is plain rubbish. Much of their rankings make no sense to me whatsoever.

Langpop.corger.nl is my "go to" website for language rankings. It's not perfect, but it makes a whole lot more sense to me.

Scala, Groovy, and Clojure are not "ultimate failures." Heck, they're doing at least as well as Go, my second favourite language of all time. (Go is red-hot in China. Go has an enviable set of "standard" libraries.)

I agree that Java is our greatest foe. We are "300" against its Xerxes. That's why I am sanguine about Redline – we need it!

kilon.alios wrote
Lets see the big picture here, if you take a look at TIOBE INDEX or LANGPOP
or the internet at large you get a clear picture about java based languages
. Popularity wise they have been a ultimate failure. Right now the only
language that is barely noticable is Scala and even Scala is nowhere near
as popular as the less popular languages like Pascal, Delphi and Visual
Basic. Of course each website gives diffirent numbers but those numbers are
just different in only few percentage units.

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

http://langpop.com/

Hype also does not help those languages either. Take a look at Clojure ,
one of the most overhyped languages out there not just on JVM but anywhere,
in both websites I mentioned Clojure like Pharo does not make it even in
top 50. Tons of blogs post about Clojure only, tons of praise, and praise
and praise.

I can say about jython itself , a python implementation for the JVM and
ironpython which is python for .NET are barely noticable in the python
world with cpython gathering at least 99.9% of the attention.

So its a really hard situation . Coding has become extremely complex and
demanding , coders want languages are deeply documented and come with tons
of libraries so its very hard for new languages to kick in. Also the
assumption that because you love a language you will be willing to start
using java libraries seems to have failed miserably. These languages seem
more appealing to java developers and java developers dont seem willing to
abandon Java any time soon.

So as always Java death has been greatly exaggerated.

The situation for Javascript based languages is even worse.

So frankly what has happened with Redline is pretty normal.

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can
> > also get you bitten. :)
>
>      Sure, and shaking the hive too rarely will get you starved.
>
>
> -C
>
> --
> Craig Latta
> netjam.org
> +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok)
> + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
>
>
>
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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

horrido
In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
There's no reason why we can't fight on several fronts. Pharo is great, but it ignores the JVM platform. Pharo is great, but we need Amber on the client side. I'm even hopeful about Essence# for .NET.

It would be terrific if we can rally more contributors to the Redline project. Strategically, this is a very important project. I cannot emphasize this enough.

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
Yes, it is very alive: 20 commits in year or so.

Pharo 4 has about 1700 in about the same time (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core). And that is just one silly, inaccurate metric.

My point is, there are a couple of great Smalltalk implementations that contain an incredible number of man-years of effort in their images (the best being Pharo of course, but I am biased ;-), we can only achieve a high quality platform by working together. The number of different competences needed to successfully build a *COMPLETE* software platform can *NEVER* be achieved by 'a couple of guys' let alone one individual.

Now, it is not that they can not do so, of course they can, we need wild and crazy ideas and research, but it is just wrong to see such experiments as what should be promoted now.

IMHO, of course.

> On 15 Jan 2015, at 15:19, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Actually, Redline is quite alive. There's a brand new repo:
> https://github.com/jamesladd/stc <https://github.com/jamesladd/stc> 
>
> James just hasn't gotten around to normalizing all the links at his website.
>
>
> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>> A blank.
>>
>> Nothing happened to this project in more than a year
>>
>>  https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master
>>
>> It is mostly vapourware and has no users.
>>
>> People following the links on the article will soon find out.
>>
>> Just sad.
>>
>>> On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <
>
>> horrido.hobbies@
>
>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html
>>> <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html> 
>>>
>>> Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
>>>
>>> This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word
>>> about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html
>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at
>>> Nabble.com.
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799699.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

horrido
In reply to this post by kilon.alios
Langpop.com was last updated in October of 2013. That's an eternity in our industry.

I look forward to the Redmonk rankings later this month (they're done twice a year). I believe they're based on the same data as langpop.corger.nl, so you can get an early preview!

Clojure gets tons of praise. That's why it has so much mindshare. Hype works. We need to build some hype for Smalltalk.

kilon.alios wrote
Lets see the big picture here, if you take a look at TIOBE INDEX or LANGPOP
or the internet at large you get a clear picture about java based languages
. Popularity wise they have been a ultimate failure. Right now the only
language that is barely noticable is Scala and even Scala is nowhere near
as popular as the less popular languages like Pascal, Delphi and Visual
Basic. Of course each website gives diffirent numbers but those numbers are
just different in only few percentage units.

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

http://langpop.com/

Hype also does not help those languages either. Take a look at Clojure ,
one of the most overhyped languages out there not just on JVM but anywhere,
in both websites I mentioned Clojure like Pharo does not make it even in
top 50. Tons of blogs post about Clojure only, tons of praise, and praise
and praise.

I can say about jython itself , a python implementation for the JVM and
ironpython which is python for .NET are barely noticable in the python
world with cpython gathering at least 99.9% of the attention.

So its a really hard situation . Coding has become extremely complex and
demanding , coders want languages are deeply documented and come with tons
of libraries so its very hard for new languages to kick in. Also the
assumption that because you love a language you will be willing to start
using java libraries seems to have failed miserably. These languages seem
more appealing to java developers and java developers dont seem willing to
abandon Java any time soon.

So as always Java death has been greatly exaggerated.

The situation for Javascript based languages is even worse.

So frankly what has happened with Redline is pretty normal.

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can
> > also get you bitten. :)
>
>      Sure, and shaking the hive too rarely will get you starved.
>
>
> -C
>
> --
> Craig Latta
> netjam.org
> +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok)
> + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
>
>
>
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Re: InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

Andreas Wacknitz
In reply to this post by horrido

Am 15.01.15 16:08, schrieb horrido:

> As I've written elsewhere, I believe the TIOBE index is plain rubbish. Much
> of their rankings make no sense to me whatsoever.
>
> Langpop.corger.nl <http://langpop.corger.nl/>   is my "go to" website for
> language rankings. It's not perfect, but it makes a whole lot more sense to
> me.
>
> Scala, Groovy, and Clojure are not "ultimate failures." Heck, they're doing
> at least as well as Go, my second favourite language of all time. (Go is
> red-hot in China. Go has an enviable set of "standard" libraries.)
http://dtrace.org/blogs/wesolows/2014/12/29/golang-is-trash/

>
> I agree that Java is our greatest foe. We are "300" against its Xerxes.
> That's why I am sanguine about Redline – we need it!
>
>
> kilon.alios wrote
>> Lets see the big picture here, if you take a look at TIOBE INDEX or
>> LANGPOP
>> or the internet at large you get a clear picture about java based
>> languages
>> . Popularity wise they have been a ultimate failure. Right now the only
>> language that is barely noticable is Scala and even Scala is nowhere near
>> as popular as the less popular languages like Pascal, Delphi and Visual
>> Basic. Of course each website gives diffirent numbers but those numbers
>> are
>> just different in only few percentage units.
>>
>> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>>
>> http://langpop.com/
>>
>> Hype also does not help those languages either. Take a look at Clojure ,
>> one of the most overhyped languages out there not just on JVM but
>> anywhere,
>> in both websites I mentioned Clojure like Pharo does not make it even in
>> top 50. Tons of blogs post about Clojure only, tons of praise, and praise
>> and praise.
>>
>> I can say about jython itself , a python implementation for the JVM and
>> ironpython which is python for .NET are barely noticable in the python
>> world with cpython gathering at least 99.9% of the attention.
>>
>> So its a really hard situation . Coding has become extremely complex and
>> demanding , coders want languages are deeply documented and come with tons
>> of libraries so its very hard for new languages to kick in. Also the
>> assumption that because you love a language you will be willing to start
>> using java libraries seems to have failed miserably. These languages seem
>> more appealing to java developers and java developers dont seem willing to
>> abandon Java any time soon.
>>
>> So as always Java death has been greatly exaggerated.
>>
>> The situation for Javascript based languages is even worse.
>>
>> So frankly what has happened with Redline is pretty normal.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Craig Latta &lt;
>> craig@
>> &gt; wrote:
>>
>>>> Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can
>>>> also get you bitten. :)
>>>       Sure, and shaking the hive too rarely will get you starved.
>>>
>>>
>>> -C
>>>
>>> --
>>> Craig Latta
>>> netjam.org
>>> +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok)
>>> + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799716.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>


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