Integrating Aidaweb and Amber

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Integrating Aidaweb and Amber

Andy Burnett
I was wondering whether anyone had managed to build a system that allowed us to create smalltalk backend and front end.

Cheers
Andy

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Re: Integrating Aidaweb and Amber

Janko Mivšek
Hello Andy,

Dne 05. 11. 2013 22:31, piše Andy Burnett:

> I was wondering whether anyone had managed to build a system that
> allowed us to create smalltalk backend and front end.

Not yet :)

In Aida this will happen gradually and without noticing it, but
certainly without introducing another language, being JavaScript or
another Smalltalk like Amber. In other worlds, client-side programming
will come in Aida seamlessly and using the same techniques as we are
already using now, like realtime, Ajax etc.

Idea is to introduce more MVC techniques to Aida first (see my this year
ESUG talk) like JavaScript guys are doing in Backbone, EmberJS
AngularJS, then slowly moving more and more processing to client "behind
the scenes". At the end Aida will be able to generate an autonomous
application, which can run standalone without Aida server needed and can
therefore be installed as an App on mobile devices.

We will probably use Amber's compiler to "emit" JS code, but I doubt we
will ever use Amber Smalltalk for development. To avoid "yet another
language" as said at the beginning. Amber is because of deficiencies of
JS VM just different enough from other Smalltalks that is annoying for
everyday work.

Aida needs to stay simple and for everyday business app development, yet
we need stay on the bleeding edge with new web technologies. These two
goals contradict that's why we need to be even more careful choosing the
right strategy for the future. 18 years so far Aida managed to chose
well, so be sure we will find such strategy now too :)

This is at least how I'm currently thinking how to proceed Aida
development in area of client-side/front-end development.

Best regards
Janko

--
Janko Mivšek
Aida/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
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Re: Integrating Aidaweb and Amber

Andy Burnett
In reply to this post by Andy Burnett

> I was wondering whether anyone had managed to build a system that
> allowed us to create smalltalk backend and front end.

Not yet :)

In Aida this will happen gradually and without noticing it, but
certainly without introducing another language, being JavaScript or
another Smalltalk like Amber. In other worlds, client-side programming
will come in Aida seamlessly and using the same techniques as we are
already using now, like realtime, Ajax etc.

Idea is to introduce more MVC techniques to Aida first (see my this year
ESUG talk) like JavaScript guys are doing in Backbone, EmberJS
AngularJS, then slowly moving more and more processing to client "behind
the scenes". At the end Aida will be able to generate an autonomous
application, which can run standalone without Aida server needed and can
therefore be installed as an App on mobile devices.

We will probably use Amber's compiler to "emit" JS code, but I doubt we
will ever use Amber Smalltalk for development. To avoid "yet another
language" as said at the beginning. Amber is because of deficiencies of
JS VM just different enough from other Smalltalks that is annoying for
everyday work.

Aida needs to stay simple and for everyday business app development, yet
we need stay on the bleeding edge with new web technologies. These two
goals contradict that's why we need to be even more careful choosing the
right strategy for the future. 18 years so far Aida managed to chose
well, so be sure we will find such strategy now too :)

This is at least how I'm currently thinking how to proceed Aida
development in area of client-side/front-end development.



Well that all sounds very interesting!

So, at a practical level, would it be best for me to start learning/building things with Aidaweb, so that I can take advantage of the client/server split as it comes into being?

Also, what can I do to help to move this development along?

Cheers
Andy


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Re: Integrating Aidaweb and Amber

Janko Mivšek
Dne 08. 11. 2013 01:24, piše Andy Burnett:

> Well that all sounds very interesting!
>
> So, at a practical level, would it be best for me to start
> learning/building things with Aidaweb, so that I can take advantage of
> the client/server split as it comes into being?

Be pretty sure, because this is also my path and because I earn all my
incomes based on Aida, so I'm serious on that path :). On business web
apps which usually run internally on high speed network, so client-side
is not as much important as speed of development, app responsiveness,
user experience etc is.

But out there are also some mobile Aida apps running and there a more
client-side would help. Well, maybe in few years mobile networks will be
speedy to, so who know if just because of current slow mobile situation
it is worth to invest too much time on client-side ..

Let you start with a ToDo example which is currently the most up-to-date
show of all Aida strengths and it also glimpse the future (where the
forthcoming W3C Web Components standard seems to be pretty close to Aida
component model):

        http://www.aidaweb.si/todo-description

For real-time which is another bigest Aida advantage look and study the
counter demo (in classes WebDemo/WebDemoApp). As simple as is it shows
very clearly what advantages a seamlessly integrated real-time support
has in web framework:

        http://demo.aidaweb.si/demos?view=realtime


> Also, what can I do to help to move this development along?

As native English speaker: writing about Aida, being experience along
the learning it to the docs would be your most valuable contribution.
Also with your perspective on the Aida as newcomer. Later when you'll be
more proficient with real code too. And with code examples, howto's etc etc.

Thanks for interest and best regards
Janko



>
>     > I was wondering whether anyone had managed to build a system that
>     > allowed us to create smalltalk backend and front end.
>
>     Not yet :)
>
>     In Aida this will happen gradually and without noticing it, but
>     certainly without introducing another language, being JavaScript or
>     another Smalltalk like Amber. In other worlds, client-side programming
>     will come in Aida seamlessly and using the same techniques as we are
>     already using now, like realtime, Ajax etc.
>
>     Idea is to introduce more MVC techniques to Aida first (see my this year
>     ESUG talk) like JavaScript guys are doing in Backbone, EmberJS
>     AngularJS, then slowly moving more and more processing to client "behind
>     the scenes". At the end Aida will be able to generate an autonomous
>     application, which can run standalone without Aida server needed and can
>     therefore be installed as an App on mobile devices.
>
>     We will probably use Amber's compiler to "emit" JS code, but I doubt we
>     will ever use Amber Smalltalk for development. To avoid "yet another
>     language" as said at the beginning. Amber is because of deficiencies of
>     JS VM just different enough from other Smalltalks that is annoying for
>     everyday work.
>
>     Aida needs to stay simple and for everyday business app development, yet
>     we need stay on the bleeding edge with new web technologies. These two
>     goals contradict that's why we need to be even more careful choosing the
>     right strategy for the future. 18 years so far Aida managed to chose
>     well, so be sure we will find such strategy now too :)
>
>     This is at least how I'm currently thinking how to proceed Aida
>     development in area of client-side/front-end development.
>
>
>


--
Janko Mivšek
Aida/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
_______________________________________________
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