Good point on the potential projects collision (aside: that does nothing in Calypso at the moment right?).
I was thinking that in Eclipse or IntelliJ, when you launch the IDE and go to do something, you create a “new project” and typically identify it as a a web project, or Java spring project (so effectively Templates).
We kind of do that too don’t we? A moose project or a seaside project (although we seem to load more stuff from scratch these days - but potentially maybe we’re missing a trick of not helping someone create a fresh baselineOf to point to some pre-loaded assets in a template image?).
I know we often think more about a blank canvas and then explore and pull stuff in as we find it - but if we’re trying to build a bridge for newcomers (particularly students who use other similarish tools) then this terminology is what they would expect.
Going back to Ben’s point - what then is the project in Calypso.
Is my project - eg. PagerDutyWeb is the main project in my image, and it depends on sub projects like Seaside,Willow and NeoJson - or are those latter items libraries?
I’m not actually clear on what our terminology is.
In writing this, it’s usefully got me thinking that when I create a Launcher image (project?), rather than name it after the template, as in “Pharo 6.1 (stable)”, this should really be meta data on a directory and image called “PagerDuty”.
We have a crude form of that in a file called description.txt, but maybe that should be called image.json and have fields for description, template, build, createdDate etc.
Of course this is a bit more work - but as you build up a list of images, it would be handier to manage them better.
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
>> On 26 Jun 2018, at 14:37, H. Hirzel <
[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Tim Mackinnon <
[hidden email]> wrote:
>> As I mentioned - the user in question was quite complimentary, just confused
>> on first launch.
>>
>> Equally we don’t want to impact power users, and ultimately we want to
>> encourage everyone to try newer images to help with improvements.
>>
>> I honestly think that some slightly improved terminology and a bit of
>> guidance to get your first image (eg picking the correct one) is all it
>> takes.
>
> +1
> Maybe just a note on the download website which 'new project' (image)
> beginners should go for....
>
> --Hannes
>>
>> Once you’ve groked it - you are off. We just want that first experience to
>> be pleasant.
>>
>> I personally like to see the list of images and understand how many builds
>> have been made as it’s comforting to see the progress and be encouraged to
>> join in.
>>
>> I as going to propose a simple change to the name on the lists like:
>>
>> “Templates” -> “Image Templates” or maybe even “Project Templates”
>>
>> “Images” -> “Downloaded Images” or maybe “Created Projects”
>>
>> (While we are familiar with the term image, maybe it’s an implementation
>> detail - eclipse and IntelliJ create projects, and we aren’t so different)
>>
>> We could also as Cyril suggests, have a little welcome window with some text
>> and a picture.
>>
>> Both really simple to do and probably enough to get people started. After
>> all, our audience is reasonable technical so we shouldn’t need to dumb It
>> down too much.
>>
>> I’m also conscious about here is a lot of Pharo 7 work to do as well.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 26 Jun 2018, at 08:09, Christophe Demarey <
[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Tim,
>>>
>>>> Le 26 juin 2018 à 03:00, Ben Coman <
[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> On 26 June 2018 at 06:17, Tim Mackinnon <
[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi everyone - at tonights month UK Smalltalk Meetup, we got some nice
>>>>> compliments on the state of Pharo (the participants - all ex small
>>>>> talkers - although ex in so much as they fondly remembered it and wanted
>>>>> to use it for something relevant now because they enjoyed it in the
>>>>> past).
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, one interesting comment stuck out - he had downloaded Pharo
>>>>> (having used Visual Age 15+ years ago) and was a bit overwhelmed with
>>>>> what laugher presented to him. He didn’t hate it - but was initially a
>>>>> bit lost as to what it all meant and how to start… he figured it out,
>>>>> but I thought the feedback was interesting and made me think that maybe
>>>>> we need some form of intro wizard to get people off to a quick start but
>>>>> leave them confident enough that they might come back and try a Pharo 7
>>>>> or Moose etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I encouraged him to post something on here, but thoughtI would note it
>>>>> (as it seems quite easy to fix) as an idea while it was fresh in my
>>>>> mind.
>>>>
>>>> A welcome tutorial is a good idea. And btw, the sort of idea that only
>>>> comes from broader use of PharoLauncher.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>> We also got this feedback from students. We know we have to improve the UI
>>> by simplifying it.
>>> Our idea was to only provide a window with a toolbar and the list of
>>> images as the main Pharo Launhcer window.
>>> On this windows, clicking on the + button will open a « wizard » like the
>>> one for creating repositories in Iceberg. There you could choose to create
>>> an image from « featured images » or ci, etc.
>>>
>>> It would lower a lot the cognitive charge of the current window.
>>> We just need time to implement it.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Christophe
>
Locked
