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Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

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tbrunz

Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

tl;dr: I have some ideas about more advanced Pharo tutorials, and I have an
example that I would like to have reviewed/critiqued before I develop it any
further.

I've been thinking lately that it would be nice to expand the number of
Pharo tutorials we have available. But rather than (or along with) creating
more "beginner" level tutorials, I'd like to see some good "intermediate"
level Pharo tutorials. I think that programmers who already know the Pharo
syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced tutorials
that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real world"
processing needs.

What I'm talking about is something that assumes you know the language, the
basics of the IDE (but not necessarily how to leverage its capabilities to
aid development), and the basics of the foundation classes (but not its
details). I'd like a tutorial for intermediate Pharo programmers who want
to become experts with Pharo. Something that can show you how to apply the
tools of the IDE and the features of the language and base classes to create
solutions that solve complex problems.

What does the community think of this idea?

-Ted

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

tbrunz

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

Recently, I came up with one such project that might work here, and I spent
some time prototyping it. The project is to create an application in Pharo
that can solve the "Zebra Puzzle".

What's the Zebra Puzzle? It's an example of a "constraint satisfaction
problem", which are also known as "logic puzzles". This particular puzzle
was published in Life International Magazine in 1962 and consists of a set
of constraints for allocating a set of values (properties) of attributes in
a mutually-exclusive way:

1. There are five houses.
2. The Englishman lives in the red house.
3. The Spaniard owns the dog.
4. Coffee is drunk in the green house.
5. The Ukrainian drinks tea.
6. The green house is immediately to the right of the ivory house.
7. The Old Gold smoker owns snails.
8. Kools are smoked in the yellow house.
9. Milk is drunk in the middle house.
10. The Norwegian lives in the first house.
11. The man who smokes Chesterfields lives in the house next to the man with
the fox.
12. Kools are smoked in the house next to the house where the horse is kept.
13. The Lucky Strike smoker drinks orange juice.
14. The Japanese smokes Parliaments.
15. The Norwegian lives next to the blue house.

Now, who drinks the water? Who owns the zebra?

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

tbrunz

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

Having solved a number of these problems in my youth, I tried to solve this
one "by hand". But with 6 attributes of 5 properties each, the
"bookkeeping" task was too difficult to deal with while trying to find a
consistent solution.

It turns out that it's very easy to make an inconsistent conclusion, and
it's also difficult to 'unwind' a mistake (if you can figure out where you
made your mistake.) After I failed and restarted the puzzle several times
in a row, I thought about one of my mantras: "Let humans do the things that
humans are good at, and computers do the things that computers are good at."

After all, computers are designed to good at processing large amounts of
data without confusion or mistakes (assuming the software developers are
competent -- and use good tools). So why not a computer program that can
solve this puzzle?

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

tbrunz

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

So I decided to write an application to solve the Zebra Puzzle, by solving
this type of problem in general. In Pharo, of course.

I worked out a few basic algorithms for making deductions and inferences,
and coded them, along with tests, in Pharo 8. Now I've reached the point of
having a working "proof of concept" or prototype. It can't (yet) solve the
Zebra Puzzle without some "human assistance", but it does keep track of the
solution state as it progresses, it handles the bookkeeping, makes the basic
deductions/inferences, and produces reports.

And I've used it to quickly solve the Zebra Puzzle. I coded the solution as
a separate class/method, with extra rules inserted that I was able to infer
by iterating to partial solutions, so that it solves the entire thing. It
will interesting to develop the remaining algorithms, and it would be nice
to eventually create a nice, interactive user interface for it as well.

Since I want to fashion this into an intermediate-level tutorial, I need
feedback on what I have so far. I don't want my inexperience to lead to me
teaching the wrong techniques, etc. to other developers who are learning
Pharo. What I have can no doubt be improved, but I need to hear from the
master craftsman in this community what parts are compromised and how (and
why) it can be made a better example of "how to program in Pharo" properly.

If anyone has the time and is willing to help, the code (complete with class
& method comments, test classes/methods, and the Zebra Puzzle example) is
here:
https://github.com/tbrunz/logic-puzzle and I'm available to answer questions
about it, of course.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Russ Whaley

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

Back on the 'Intermediate Tutorials' question...

I would love to see intermediate tutorials on Spec2 and Seaside.... and perhaps how to best adapt an (Sp)Application to serve both 'presenters' with guidelines on what responsibility goes where on the presenter/component, application, and model(s).

What I found most useful in tutorials is specific examples. To me, generic examples can be too easily misunderstood - making them difficult to (re)apply. A specific example, even if silly, can really make a difference... i.e. I'm never going to create a GUI based on the Class/method hierarchy and I find it very difficult to apply those examples (although they are slick) to my application needs.

I love looking at how other people approach problems, identify solutions (I can't wait to dig into the logic-puzzle code). This mailing list is great, but more - and more advanced - tutorials would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!

Russ

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:45 PM tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:

So I decided to write an application to solve the Zebra Puzzle, by solving
this type of problem in general. In Pharo, of course.

I worked out a few basic algorithms for making deductions and inferences,
and coded them, along with tests, in Pharo 8. Now I've reached the point of
having a working "proof of concept" or prototype. It can't (yet) solve the
Zebra Puzzle without some "human assistance", but it does keep track of the
solution state as it progresses, it handles the bookkeeping, makes the basic
deductions/inferences, and produces reports.

And I've used it to quickly solve the Zebra Puzzle. I coded the solution as
a separate class/method, with extra rules inserted that I was able to infer
by iterating to partial solutions, so that it solves the entire thing. It
will interesting to develop the remaining algorithms, and it would be nice
to eventually create a nice, interactive user interface for it as well.

Since I want to fashion this into an intermediate-level tutorial, I need
feedback on what I have so far. I don't want my inexperience to lead to me
teaching the wrong techniques, etc. to other developers who are learning
Pharo. What I have can no doubt be improved, but I need to hear from the
master craftsman in this community what parts are compromised and how (and
why) it can be made a better example of "how to program in Pharo" properly.

If anyone has the time and is willing to help, the code (complete with class
& method comments, test classes/methods, and the Zebra Puzzle example) is
here:
https://github.com/tbrunz/logic-puzzle and I'm available to answer questions
about it, of course.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Russ Whaley
[hidden email]

tbrunz

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

I also would love to see intermediate tutorials on Spec2 and Seaside. (And
Zinc and Teapot, too, for that matter.)

And the example/tutorial I'm working on really *should* have a Spec2 _and_ a
Seaside/Teapot interface. But that's a bit over my head... Which is
frustrating; I want to know how to do it. (I want to know it well enough to
*teach* it.) I would need help for that, but I know everyone is so busy,
and this particular app won't necessarily appeal to many.

I'm working towards doing just what you're describing, Russ -- *specific*
examples, that use "typical" constructs in Pharo for "typical" processing
situations. Because I know also that these are really helpful for learning.

Eventually I'd like to have/help create a series of "intermediate-level"
tutorials, with not just example code, but with instructions/examples of how
to work with the tools in the IDE to implement, test, debug, etc.

Let me know what you think of the code so far -- feedback is needed &
appreciated!

-t

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

tbrunz

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

In reply to this post by Russ Whaley

Hi Russ,

I added an "Examples" package tag, with several methods that lead through
the Zebra Puzzle solution, step by step.

It still doesn't do the entire solution by itself, but each example method
displays the solution state up to that point, allowing you to examine the
results and infer additional rules to add.

The last example method combines the puzzle rules + the additional rules you
infer, and displays the complete solution.

I plan to make the code "smarter" over time, so that it can eventually solve
the whole thing by itself.

Let me know what you think...

-Ted

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

In reply to this post by tbrunz

On 28 Jul 2020, at 05:38, tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:

tl;dr: I have some ideas about more advanced Pharo tutorials, and I have an
example that I would like to have reviewed/critiqued before I develop it any
further.

I've been thinking lately that it would be nice to expand the number of
Pharo tutorials we have available. But rather than (or along with) creating
more "beginner" level tutorials, I'd like to see some good "intermediate"
level Pharo tutorials.

Me too :)

I think that programmers who already know the Pharo
syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced tutorials
that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real world"
processing needs.

Yes yes I would love that.

What I'm talking about is something that assumes you know the language, the
basics of the IDE (but not necessarily how to leverage its capabilities to
aid development), and the basics of the foundation classes (but not its
details). I'd like a tutorial for intermediate Pharo programmers who want
to become experts with Pharo. Something that can show you how to apply the
tools of the IDE and the features of the language and base classes to create
solutions that solve complex problems.

do you have ideas?

What does the community think of this idea?

I love it. I did Pharo by example so that I can get of rid of the beginner parts.

After I did learning OOP and Pharo with style so that I do not have to talk about it

again.

So definitively.

-Ted

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

--------------------------------------------

Stéphane Ducasse

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org

03 59 35 87 52

Assistant: Aurore Dalle

FAX 03 59 57 78 50

TEL 03 59 35 86 16

S. Ducasse - Inria

40, avenue Halley,

Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza

Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650

France

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

In reply to this post by Russ Whaley

On 29 Jul 2020, at 05:06, Russ Whaley <[hidden email]> wrote:

Back on the 'Intermediate Tutorials' question...

I would love to see intermediate tutorials on Spec2 and Seaside.... and perhaps how to best adapt an (Sp)Application to serve both 'presenters' with guidelines on what responsibility goes where on the presenter/component, application, and model(s).

Agreed.

Now for the seaside tutorials please ask seasiders because what is killing me is to have to deeply learning something before writing

may be one person can write some blog posts.

For Spec2 we will but I’m waiting for esteban to write and I do a pass after.

What I found most useful in tutorials is specific examples. To me, generic examples can be too easily misunderstood - making them difficult to (re)apply. A specific example, even if silly, can really make a difference…

Yes!

Did you see

https://github.com/Ducasse/smalltodo-example/blob/master/SmallTODO-Tutorial-1.md

i.e. I'm never going to create a GUI based on the Class/method hierarchy and I find it very difficult to apply those examples (although they are slick) to my application needs.

I love looking at how other people approach problems, identify solutions (I can't wait to dig into the logic-puzzle code). This mailing list is great, but more - and more advanced - tutorials would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!
Russ

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:45 PM tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:
So I decided to write an application to solve the Zebra Puzzle, by solving
this type of problem in general. In Pharo, of course.

I worked out a few basic algorithms for making deductions and inferences,
and coded them, along with tests, in Pharo 8. Now I've reached the point of
having a working "proof of concept" or prototype. It can't (yet) solve the
Zebra Puzzle without some "human assistance", but it does keep track of the
solution state as it progresses, it handles the bookkeeping, makes the basic
deductions/inferences, and produces reports.

And I've used it to quickly solve the Zebra Puzzle. I coded the solution as
a separate class/method, with extra rules inserted that I was able to infer
by iterating to partial solutions, so that it solves the entire thing. It
will interesting to develop the remaining algorithms, and it would be nice
to eventually create a nice, interactive user interface for it as well.

Since I want to fashion this into an intermediate-level tutorial, I need
feedback on what I have so far. I don't want my inexperience to lead to me
teaching the wrong techniques, etc. to other developers who are learning
Pharo. What I have can no doubt be improved, but I need to hear from the
master craftsman in this community what parts are compromised and how (and
why) it can be made a better example of "how to program in Pharo" properly.

If anyone has the time and is willing to help, the code (complete with class
& method comments, test classes/methods, and the Zebra Puzzle example) is
here:
https://github.com/tbrunz/logic-puzzle and I'm available to answer questions
about it, of course.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

--
Russ Whaley
[hidden email]

--------------------------------------------

Stéphane Ducasse

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org

03 59 35 87 52

Assistant: Aurore Dalle

FAX 03 59 57 78 50

TEL 03 59 35 86 16

S. Ducasse - Inria

40, avenue Halley,

Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza

Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650

France

Russ Whaley

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

EXACTLY!, Stéphane, thank you! I will go through this tutorial today.

Has anyone written any documentation or maybe a tool that would help understand what each ‘widget’ is capable of? I review all example code, read all class comments and peruse the class hierarchy, but when a widget capability doesn’t work for me, I don’t know whether I’m using it incorrectly, in the wrong place, or if it’s a bug.. I.e filter/sort, TransmitTo:, drag and drop, double-click, right-click, presenter management (modal, etc), and how to force the display to refresh, etc. Your thoughts?

I appreciate (and admire) all the work you and everyone put into the documentation and tutorials - and I am voracious in consuming them. I hope to build my skills to be able to contribute for the community.

Thanks!

Russ

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 5:07 AM Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 29 Jul 2020, at 05:06, Russ Whaley <[hidden email]> wrote:

Back on the 'Intermediate Tutorials' question...

I would love to see intermediate tutorials on Spec2 and Seaside.... and perhaps how to best adapt an (Sp)Application to serve both 'presenters' with guidelines on what responsibility goes where on the presenter/component, application, and model(s).

Agreed.
Now for the seaside tutorials please ask seasiders because what is killing me is to have to deeply learning something before writing
may be one person can write some blog posts.

For Spec2 we will but I’m waiting for esteban to write and I do a pass after.

What I found most useful in tutorials is specific examples. To me, generic examples can be too easily misunderstood - making them difficult to (re)apply. A specific example, even if silly, can really make a difference…

Yes!
Did you see

https://github.com/Ducasse/smalltodo-example/blob/master/SmallTODO-Tutorial-1.md

i.e. I'm never going to create a GUI based on the Class/method hierarchy and I find it very difficult to apply those examples (although they are slick) to my application needs.

I love looking at how other people approach problems, identify solutions (I can't wait to dig into the logic-puzzle code). This mailing list is great, but more - and more advanced - tutorials would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!
Russ

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:45 PM tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:
So I decided to write an application to solve the Zebra Puzzle, by solving
this type of problem in general. In Pharo, of course.

I worked out a few basic algorithms for making deductions and inferences,
and coded them, along with tests, in Pharo 8. Now I've reached the point of
having a working "proof of concept" or prototype. It can't (yet) solve the
Zebra Puzzle without some "human assistance", but it does keep track of the
solution state as it progresses, it handles the bookkeeping, makes the basic
deductions/inferences, and produces reports.

And I've used it to quickly solve the Zebra Puzzle. I coded the solution as
a separate class/method, with extra rules inserted that I was able to infer
by iterating to partial solutions, so that it solves the entire thing. It
will interesting to develop the remaining algorithms, and it would be nice
to eventually create a nice, interactive user interface for it as well.

Since I want to fashion this into an intermediate-level tutorial, I need
feedback on what I have so far. I don't want my inexperience to lead to me
teaching the wrong techniques, etc. to other developers who are learning
Pharo. What I have can no doubt be improved, but I need to hear from the
master craftsman in this community what parts are compromised and how (and
why) it can be made a better example of "how to program in Pharo" properly.

If anyone has the time and is willing to help, the code (complete with class
& method comments, test classes/methods, and the Zebra Puzzle example) is
here:
https://github.com/tbrunz/logic-puzzle and I'm available to answer questions
about it, of course.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

--
Russ Whaley
[hidden email]

--------------------------------------------
Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Aurore Dalle
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley,
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

Russ Whaley
[hidden email]

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

On 2 Aug 2020, at 15:33, Russ Whaley <[hidden email]> wrote:

EXACTLY!, Stéphane, thank you! I will go through this tutorial today.

Has anyone written any documentation or maybe a tool that would help understand what each ‘widget’ is capable of? I review all example code, read all class comments and peruse the class hierarchy, but when a widget capability doesn’t work for me, I don’t know whether I’m using it incorrectly, in the wrong place, or if it’s a bug.. I.e filter/sort, TransmitTo:, drag and drop, double-click, right-click, presenter management (modal, etc), and how to force the display to refresh, etc. Your thoughts?

Same feeling for me.

This is why I would like

- to have the time to propose a way to mark API elements so that we can build a little tools to show the API of each widget

We did this in Spec1 and it supported the auto documentation of the system.

- to have better method comments, and class comments.

- that esteban write more doc. I decided that I will not write anything before (because I’m TIRED to learn by try and error to be able to write documentation).

I will never do that again. It is not fun and I prefer to focus on my stupid projects because I know them.

So if you want to help me.

Ask for them :)

I appreciate (and admire) all the work you and everyone put into the documentation and tutorials - and I am voracious in consuming them.

Thanks!

I hope to build my skills to be able to contribute for the community.

If you find typos or strange english let us know. Because this is already a contribution

Thanks!
Russ

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 5:07 AM Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 29 Jul 2020, at 05:06, Russ Whaley <[hidden email]> wrote:

Back on the 'Intermediate Tutorials' question...

I would love to see intermediate tutorials on Spec2 and Seaside.... and perhaps how to best adapt an (Sp)Application to serve both 'presenters' with guidelines on what responsibility goes where on the presenter/component, application, and model(s).

Agreed.
Now for the seaside tutorials please ask seasiders because what is killing me is to have to deeply learning something before writing
may be one person can write some blog posts.

For Spec2 we will but I’m waiting for esteban to write and I do a pass after.

What I found most useful in tutorials is specific examples. To me, generic examples can be too easily misunderstood - making them difficult to (re)apply. A specific example, even if silly, can really make a difference…

Yes!
Did you see

https://github.com/Ducasse/smalltodo-example/blob/master/SmallTODO-Tutorial-1.md

i.e. I'm never going to create a GUI based on the Class/method hierarchy and I find it very difficult to apply those examples (although they are slick) to my application needs.

I love looking at how other people approach problems, identify solutions (I can't wait to dig into the logic-puzzle code). This mailing list is great, but more - and more advanced - tutorials would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!
Russ

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 11:45 PM tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:
So I decided to write an application to solve the Zebra Puzzle, by solving
this type of problem in general. In Pharo, of course.

I worked out a few basic algorithms for making deductions and inferences,
and coded them, along with tests, in Pharo 8. Now I've reached the point of
having a working "proof of concept" or prototype. It can't (yet) solve the
Zebra Puzzle without some "human assistance", but it does keep track of the
solution state as it progresses, it handles the bookkeeping, makes the basic
deductions/inferences, and produces reports.

And I've used it to quickly solve the Zebra Puzzle. I coded the solution as
a separate class/method, with extra rules inserted that I was able to infer
by iterating to partial solutions, so that it solves the entire thing. It
will interesting to develop the remaining algorithms, and it would be nice
to eventually create a nice, interactive user interface for it as well.

Since I want to fashion this into an intermediate-level tutorial, I need
feedback on what I have so far. I don't want my inexperience to lead to me
teaching the wrong techniques, etc. to other developers who are learning
Pharo. What I have can no doubt be improved, but I need to hear from the
master craftsman in this community what parts are compromised and how (and
why) it can be made a better example of "how to program in Pharo" properly.

If anyone has the time and is willing to help, the code (complete with class
& method comments, test classes/methods, and the Zebra Puzzle example) is
here:
https://github.com/tbrunz/logic-puzzle and I'm available to answer questions
about it, of course.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

--
Russ Whaley
[hidden email]

--------------------------------------------
Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Aurore Dalle
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley,
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

--
Russ Whaley
[hidden email]

--------------------------------------------

Stéphane Ducasse

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org

03 59 35 87 52

Assistant: Aurore Dalle

FAX 03 59 57 78 50

TEL 03 59 35 86 16

S. Ducasse - Inria

40, avenue Halley,

Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza

Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650

France

tbrunz

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

>> I've been thinking lately that it would be nice to expand the number of
>> Pharo tutorials we have available. But rather than (or along with)
>> creating
>> more "beginner" level tutorials, I'd like to see some good "intermediate"
>> level Pharo tutorials.
>
>Me too :)

Let's do it, then. I'll volunteer to do most of the work. :^)

My hope is that participating in this will make me capable of creating
advanced tutorials all by myself.

>> I think that programmers who already know the Pharo
>> syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced tutorials
>> that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real world"
>> processing needs.
>
>Yes yes I would love that.

That was part of my motivation for creating a Pharo app to solve the Zebra
Puzzle. First, of course, I wanted to solve it. ;^)

>> What I'm talking about is something that assumes you know the language,
>> the
>> basics of the IDE (but not necessarily how to leverage its capabilities
>> to
>> aid development), and the basics of the foundation classes (but not its
>> details). I'd like a tutorial for intermediate Pharo programmers who
>> want
>> to become experts with Pharo. Something that can show you how to apply
>> the
>> tools of the IDE and the features of the language and base classes to
>> create
>> solutions that solve complex problems.
>
>do you have ideas?

I do!

As I started building the Logic Puzzle app, it occurred to me that I could
probably find several different, common structures in OOP (specifically,
Pharo) to add to the solution. And then each would be its own example of
"what real Pharo code looks like". I.e., be good examples.

But first, I needed to explore "how to do it in Pharo" for myself, which
naturally would have me working the IDE strongly.

Then I thought, the entire application can/should be an example, so it
should be a tutorial.

That means that I need more than just a completed application (that's "just
an example"). To be a *tutorial*, it means starting from scratch, showing
how to approach the solution, how to start a Pharo app, how to use the IDE,
how to write tests, how to refactor code, etc.

Then I thought, this needs a GUI. Either a Spec2 UI or a web app UI (with
Seaside or Teapot). But I would need help with that! So I'll start by
creating a message-based solution, and maybe get help to add a UI later.

I did some prototyping, then got what I think might be a good code structure
(by version 4; it took a while to "think pure OOP"; old habits are hard to
fight against). It runs, it works.

But.. Is it "good Pharo code"? I'm not experienced enough to answer that
question. I need a code review, criticism, guidance. Point me in the right
direction and I'll keep working on it, and start thinking about how to
express the "meta" elements (how to use the IDE to make/test the code,
etc.).

>> What does the community think of this idea?
>
>I love it. I did Pharo by example so that I can get of rid of the beginner
parts.
>After I did learning OOP and Pharo with style so that I do not have to talk
about it
>again.
>
>So definitively.

Okay, great. I'll do most of the work. But I need help...

I don't want to go any further without someone much more experienced than I
am to review what I have and let me know what I'm doing right & what I'm
doing "no quite so right". Yes, it runs, it works -- but that's *not* good
enough. The goal here isn't to "hack out a solution and move on", the goal
is to "create an example and tutorial that's high enough quality to use to
teach Pharo to other people". I don't want to be teaching *my* bad habits!

Also, I know next to nothing about Spec2 or Seaside/Teapot. I just know
that I need to learn it, and I need to use it to give my tutorial a UI (or
two). Newcomers will show up wanting to learn Pharo, and they need to be
reassured that they can create nice (enough) UIs without a huge effort.
(Not everyone is a command line hacker, and end-users certainly don't want
to be.)

The more I learn (from you), the more I can be independent, and the more
tutorials I could produce -- without a lot of help. I'm willing to do the
work, because that will help make me a Pharo "master programmer". (I don't
want to be a hack, and I can't really be a trainer if I'm just a hack
myself.)

I'll pay back the community by helping to attract and advance more
developers' skills. I just have to have the more advanced knowledge &
skills myself. So, train the (future) trainer, anyone??

-Ted

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

On 2 Aug 2020, at 19:51, tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've been thinking lately that it would be nice to expand the number of
Pharo tutorials we have available. But rather than (or along with)
creating
more "beginner" level tutorials, I'd like to see some good "intermediate"
level Pharo tutorials.

Me too :)

Let's do it, then. I'll volunteer to do most of the work. :^)

I will review anything you write :)

My hope is that participating in this will make me capable of creating
advanced tutorials all by myself.

I usually like to write to learn and dump what I learned.

I think that programmers who already know the Pharo
syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced tutorials
that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real world"
processing needs.

Yes yes I would love that.

That was part of my motivation for creating a Pharo app to solve the Zebra
Puzzle. First, of course, I wanted to solve it. ;^)

I will send you some feeedback and PR.

What I'm talking about is something that assumes you know the language,
the
basics of the IDE (but not necessarily how to leverage its capabilities
to
aid development), and the basics of the foundation classes (but not its
details). I'd like a tutorial for intermediate Pharo programmers who
want
to become experts with Pharo. Something that can show you how to apply
the
tools of the IDE and the features of the language and base classes to
create
solutions that solve complex problems.

do you have ideas?

I do!

As I started building the Logic Puzzle app, it occurred to me that I could
probably find several different, common structures in OOP (specifically,
Pharo) to add to the solution. And then each would be its own example of
"what real Pharo code looks like". I.e., be good examples.

But first, I needed to explore "how to do it in Pharo" for myself, which
naturally would have me working the IDE strongly.

Then I thought, the entire application can/should be an example, so it
should be a tutorial.

That means that I need more than just a completed application (that's "just
an example"). To be a *tutorial*, it means starting from scratch, showing
how to approach the solution, how to start a Pharo app, how to use the IDE,
how to write tests, how to refactor code, etc.

Then I thought, this needs a GUI. Either a Spec2 UI or a web app UI (with
Seaside or Teapot). But I would need help with that! So I'll start by
creating a message-based solution, and maybe get help to add a UI later.

I did some prototyping, then got what I think might be a good code structure
(by version 4; it took a while to "think pure OOP"; old habits are hard to
fight against). It runs, it works.

But.. Is it "good Pharo code"? I'm not experienced enough to answer that
question. I need a code review, criticism, guidance. Point me in the right
direction and I'll keep working on it, and start thinking about how to
express the "meta" elements (how to use the IDE to make/test the code,
etc.).

What does the community think of this idea?

I love it. I did Pharo by example so that I can get of rid of the beginner
parts.
After I did learning OOP and Pharo with style so that I do not have to talk
about it
again.

So definitively.

Okay, great. I'll do most of the work. But I need help...

I don't want to go any further without someone much more experienced than I
am to review what I have and let me know what I'm doing right & what I'm
doing "no quite so right". Yes, it runs, it works -- but that's *not* good
enough. The goal here isn't to "hack out a solution and move on", the goal
is to "create an example and tutorial that's high enough quality to use to
teach Pharo to other people". I don't want to be teaching *my* bad habits!

Also, I know next to nothing about Spec2 or Seaside/Teapot. I just know
that I need to learn it, and I need to use it to give my tutorial a UI (or
two). Newcomers will show up wanting to learn Pharo, and they need to be
reassured that they can create nice (enough) UIs without a huge effort.
(Not everyone is a command line hacker, and end-users certainly don't want
to be.)

The more I learn (from you), the more I can be independent, and the more
tutorials I could produce -- without a lot of help. I'm willing to do the
work, because that will help make me a Pharo "master programmer". (I don't
want to be a hack, and I can't really be a trainer if I'm just a hack
myself.)

I'll pay back the community by helping to attract and advance more
developers' skills. I just have to have the more advanced knowledge &
skills myself. So, train the (future) trainer, anyone??

-Ted

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

--------------------------------------------

Stéphane Ducasse

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org

03 59 35 87 52

Assistant: Aurore Dalle

FAX 03 59 57 78 50

TEL 03 59 35 86 16

S. Ducasse - Inria

40, avenue Halley,

Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza

Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650

France

tbrunz

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

>> Let's do it, then. I'll volunteer to do most of the work. :^)
>
>I will review anything you write :)

I'll write well and add lots of comments to make that easy for you. :^D

>> My hope is that participating in this will make me capable of creating
>> advanced tutorials all by myself.
>
>I usually like to write to learn and dump what I learned.

That describes me very well, too. Teaching others (who want to learn) is
fun.

That often provides just the motivation I need to make something, do it
right, and then publish the results (including my own insights).

And you learn best when you're teaching others. I see that all the time.

So I don't really understand all these people who don't want to learn
anything -- don't want to learn something new, or don't want to learn better
ways of doing what they're already doing.

Maybe most of them are "too busy". I'm too busy, but I work at it. (?)

>>>> I think that programmers who already know the Pharo
>>>> syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced
>>>> tutorials
>>>> that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real
>>>> world"
>>>> processing needs.
>>>
>>> Yes yes I would love that.
>>
>> That was part of my motivation for creating a Pharo app to solve the
>> Zebra
>> Puzzle. First, of course, I wanted to solve it. ;^)
>
>I will send you some feeedback and PR.

Thanks!

-t

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Russ Whaley

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

Here are a couple of items with my first 5 minutes with the TODO tutorial...

TODOListPresenter >> initializePresenters

	todoListPresenter := self newTable
		addColumn: ((SpCheckBoxTableColumn evaluated: [:task | task isDone]) width: 20);
		addColumn: (SpStringTableColumn title: 'Title' evaluated: [:task | task title]);
		yourself.

	self layout: (SpBoxLayout newVertical 
		add: todoListPresenter;
		yourself)

In this portion (Showing Tasks) - it does not define todoListPresenter.... is it a local or a missed instVar. I tried it first as a local to enable save, but then...

TODOListPresenter >> updatePresenter

	todoListPresenter items: TODOTask selectAll asOrderedCollection

todoListPresenter isn't available for updatePresenter... so I'm assuming it must be an instvar? I created accessors, then changed all the todoListPresenter references to use the accessors (below).

TODOListPresenter >> initializePresenters

	self todoListPresenter: (self newTable
		addColumn: ((SpCheckBoxTableColumn evaluated: [:task | task isDone]) width: 20);
		addColumn: (SpStringTableColumn title: 'Title' evaluated: [:task | task title]);
		yourself).

	self layout: (SpBoxLayout newVertical 
		add: self todoListPresenter;
		yourself)

and...

TODOListPresenter >> updatePresenter

	self todoListPresenter items: TODOTask selectAll asOrderedCollection

Also, in the first example - task isDone needs to be defined (and might be defined later in the tutorial) - I'm assuming SpCheckBoxTableColumn>>evaluated: is expecting a boolean, or do I need to convert this somehow? I can check all these things out - but just curious if I'm missing something?

TODOTask >> done

	^ done

TODOTask >> isDone

	^ self done

I'll go through a bit more and update you on my progress. Ted, I also hope to get to take a look at Zebra today :)

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 2:07 PM Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 2 Aug 2020, at 19:51, tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've been thinking lately that it would be nice to expand the number of
Pharo tutorials we have available. But rather than (or along with)
creating
more "beginner" level tutorials, I'd like to see some good "intermediate"
level Pharo tutorials.

Me too :)

Let's do it, then. I'll volunteer to do most of the work. :^)

I will review anything you write :)

My hope is that participating in this will make me capable of creating
advanced tutorials all by myself.

I usually like to write to learn and dump what I learned.

I think that programmers who already know the Pharo
syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced tutorials
that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real world"
processing needs.

Yes yes I would love that.

That was part of my motivation for creating a Pharo app to solve the Zebra
Puzzle. First, of course, I wanted to solve it. ;^)

I will send you some feeedback and PR.

What I'm talking about is something that assumes you know the language,
the
basics of the IDE (but not necessarily how to leverage its capabilities
to
aid development), and the basics of the foundation classes (but not its
details). I'd like a tutorial for intermediate Pharo programmers who
want
to become experts with Pharo. Something that can show you how to apply
the
tools of the IDE and the features of the language and base classes to
create
solutions that solve complex problems.

do you have ideas?

I do!

As I started building the Logic Puzzle app, it occurred to me that I could
probably find several different, common structures in OOP (specifically,
Pharo) to add to the solution. And then each would be its own example of
"what real Pharo code looks like". I.e., be good examples.

But first, I needed to explore "how to do it in Pharo" for myself, which
naturally would have me working the IDE strongly.

Then I thought, the entire application can/should be an example, so it
should be a tutorial.

That means that I need more than just a completed application (that's "just
an example"). To be a *tutorial*, it means starting from scratch, showing
how to approach the solution, how to start a Pharo app, how to use the IDE,
how to write tests, how to refactor code, etc.

Then I thought, this needs a GUI. Either a Spec2 UI or a web app UI (with
Seaside or Teapot). But I would need help with that! So I'll start by
creating a message-based solution, and maybe get help to add a UI later.

I did some prototyping, then got what I think might be a good code structure
(by version 4; it took a while to "think pure OOP"; old habits are hard to
fight against). It runs, it works.

But.. Is it "good Pharo code"? I'm not experienced enough to answer that
question. I need a code review, criticism, guidance. Point me in the right
direction and I'll keep working on it, and start thinking about how to
express the "meta" elements (how to use the IDE to make/test the code,
etc.).

What does the community think of this idea?

I love it. I did Pharo by example so that I can get of rid of the beginner
parts.
After I did learning OOP and Pharo with style so that I do not have to talk
about it
again.

So definitively.

Okay, great. I'll do most of the work. But I need help...

I don't want to go any further without someone much more experienced than I
am to review what I have and let me know what I'm doing right & what I'm
doing "no quite so right". Yes, it runs, it works -- but that's *not* good
enough. The goal here isn't to "hack out a solution and move on", the goal
is to "create an example and tutorial that's high enough quality to use to
teach Pharo to other people". I don't want to be teaching *my* bad habits!

Also, I know next to nothing about Spec2 or Seaside/Teapot. I just know
that I need to learn it, and I need to use it to give my tutorial a UI (or
two). Newcomers will show up wanting to learn Pharo, and they need to be
reassured that they can create nice (enough) UIs without a huge effort.
(Not everyone is a command line hacker, and end-users certainly don't want
to be.)

The more I learn (from you), the more I can be independent, and the more
tutorials I could produce -- without a lot of help. I'm willing to do the
work, because that will help make me a Pharo "master programmer". (I don't
want to be a hack, and I can't really be a trainer if I'm just a hack
myself.)

I'll pay back the community by helping to attract and advance more
developers' skills. I just have to have the more advanced knowledge &
skills myself. So, train the (future) trainer, anyone??

-Ted

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

--------------------------------------------
Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Aurore Dalle
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley,
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

Russ Whaley
[hidden email]

Russ Whaley

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

Well, the very next step in the tutorial says:

How does this look?

Now we can open our task list manager as follows:

TODOApplication new run.

However, TODOApplication has not yet been connected to anything... displaying the UI that is depicted in the tutorial is not achievable at this point...

So, at this point I have to stop. I've had similar issues with IMDB and other tutorials where very important steps have been left out and I cannot achieve the results depicted. Some I'm able to figure out, many others I'm just not experienced enough to know how best to proceed... sorry.

Another item I noticed - as I was interested in the onActivation / onDeactivation... there appears to be a misspelling in the instvar in the SpCheckBoxTableColumn class - it says onDesactivation instead of onDeactivation - there is an added 's'. For now, I can change the tutorial to match the class - however, if you attempt to save the code in the tutorial, it would error.

I'm really looking forward to completing this tutorial - there looks to be some great things I want to learn... but I can't get past the first few issues :(

Russ

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 2:22 PM Russ Whaley <[hidden email]> wrote:

Here are a couple of items with my first 5 minutes with the TODO tutorial...
TODOListPresenter >> initializePresenters

	todoListPresenter := self newTable
		addColumn: ((SpCheckBoxTableColumn evaluated: [:task | task isDone]) width: 20);
		addColumn: (SpStringTableColumn title: 'Title' evaluated: [:task | task title]);
		yourself.

	self layout: (SpBoxLayout newVertical 
		add: todoListPresenter;
		yourself) 
In this portion (Showing Tasks) - it does not define todoListPresenter.... is it a local or a missed instVar. I tried it first as a local to enable save, but then...
TODOListPresenter >> updatePresenter

	todoListPresenter items: TODOTask selectAll asOrderedCollection
todoListPresenter isn't available for updatePresenter... so I'm assuming it must be an instvar? I created accessors, then changed all the todoListPresenter references to use the accessors (below).
TODOListPresenter >> initializePresenters

	self todoListPresenter: (self newTable
		addColumn: ((SpCheckBoxTableColumn evaluated: [:task | task isDone]) width: 20);
		addColumn: (SpStringTableColumn title: 'Title' evaluated: [:task | task title]);
		yourself).

	self layout: (SpBoxLayout newVertical 
		add: self todoListPresenter;
		yourself) 
and...
TODOListPresenter >> updatePresenter

	self todoListPresenter items: TODOTask selectAll asOrderedCollection
Also, in the first example - task isDone needs to be defined (and might be defined later in the tutorial) - I'm assuming SpCheckBoxTableColumn>>evaluated: is expecting a boolean, or do I need to convert this somehow? I can check all these things out - but just curious if I'm missing something?
TODOTask >> done

	^ done
TODOTask >> isDone

	^ self done
I'll go through a bit more and update you on my progress. Ted, I also hope to get to take a look at Zebra today :)
On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 2:07 PM Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 2 Aug 2020, at 19:51, tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've been thinking lately that it would be nice to expand the number of
Pharo tutorials we have available. But rather than (or along with)
creating
more "beginner" level tutorials, I'd like to see some good "intermediate"
level Pharo tutorials.

Me too :)

Let's do it, then. I'll volunteer to do most of the work. :^)

I will review anything you write :)

My hope is that participating in this will make me capable of creating
advanced tutorials all by myself.

I usually like to write to learn and dump what I learned.

I think that programmers who already know the Pharo
syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced tutorials
that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real world"
processing needs.

Yes yes I would love that.

That was part of my motivation for creating a Pharo app to solve the Zebra
Puzzle. First, of course, I wanted to solve it. ;^)

I will send you some feeedback and PR.

What I'm talking about is something that assumes you know the language,
the
basics of the IDE (but not necessarily how to leverage its capabilities
to
aid development), and the basics of the foundation classes (but not its
details). I'd like a tutorial for intermediate Pharo programmers who
want
to become experts with Pharo. Something that can show you how to apply
the
tools of the IDE and the features of the language and base classes to
create
solutions that solve complex problems.

do you have ideas?

I do!

As I started building the Logic Puzzle app, it occurred to me that I could
probably find several different, common structures in OOP (specifically,
Pharo) to add to the solution. And then each would be its own example of
"what real Pharo code looks like". I.e., be good examples.

But first, I needed to explore "how to do it in Pharo" for myself, which
naturally would have me working the IDE strongly.

Then I thought, the entire application can/should be an example, so it
should be a tutorial.

That means that I need more than just a completed application (that's "just
an example"). To be a *tutorial*, it means starting from scratch, showing
how to approach the solution, how to start a Pharo app, how to use the IDE,
how to write tests, how to refactor code, etc.

Then I thought, this needs a GUI. Either a Spec2 UI or a web app UI (with
Seaside or Teapot). But I would need help with that! So I'll start by
creating a message-based solution, and maybe get help to add a UI later.

I did some prototyping, then got what I think might be a good code structure
(by version 4; it took a while to "think pure OOP"; old habits are hard to
fight against). It runs, it works.

But.. Is it "good Pharo code"? I'm not experienced enough to answer that
question. I need a code review, criticism, guidance. Point me in the right
direction and I'll keep working on it, and start thinking about how to
express the "meta" elements (how to use the IDE to make/test the code,
etc.).

What does the community think of this idea?

I love it. I did Pharo by example so that I can get of rid of the beginner
parts.
After I did learning OOP and Pharo with style so that I do not have to talk
about it
again.

So definitively.

Okay, great. I'll do most of the work. But I need help...

I don't want to go any further without someone much more experienced than I
am to review what I have and let me know what I'm doing right & what I'm
doing "no quite so right". Yes, it runs, it works -- but that's *not* good
enough. The goal here isn't to "hack out a solution and move on", the goal
is to "create an example and tutorial that's high enough quality to use to
teach Pharo to other people". I don't want to be teaching *my* bad habits!

Also, I know next to nothing about Spec2 or Seaside/Teapot. I just know
that I need to learn it, and I need to use it to give my tutorial a UI (or
two). Newcomers will show up wanting to learn Pharo, and they need to be
reassured that they can create nice (enough) UIs without a huge effort.
(Not everyone is a command line hacker, and end-users certainly don't want
to be.)

The more I learn (from you), the more I can be independent, and the more
tutorials I could produce -- without a lot of help. I'm willing to do the
work, because that will help make me a Pharo "master programmer". (I don't
want to be a hack, and I can't really be a trainer if I'm just a hack
myself.)

I'll pay back the community by helping to attract and advance more
developers' skills. I just have to have the more advanced knowledge &
skills myself. So, train the (future) trainer, anyone??

-Ted

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

--------------------------------------------
Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Aurore Dalle
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley,
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

--
Russ Whaley
[hidden email]

Russ Whaley
[hidden email]

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

In reply to this post by Russ Whaley

Thanks I was planning to implement it.

I asked Esteban to take the time to integrate my PR.

Now can you send some PRs to the version of esteban like that we will get a better version.

And you can open issues on his repo

We will fix them.

On 2 Aug 2020, at 20:22, Russ Whaley <[hidden email]> wrote:
Here are a couple of items with my first 5 minutes with the TODO tutorial...
TODOListPresenter >> initializePresenters

	todoListPresenter := self newTable
		addColumn: ((SpCheckBoxTableColumn evaluated: [:task | task isDone]) width: 20);
		addColumn: (SpStringTableColumn title: 'Title' evaluated: [:task | task title]);
		yourself.

	self layout: (SpBoxLayout newVertical 
		add: todoListPresenter;
		yourself) 
In this portion (Showing Tasks) - it does not define todoListPresenter.... is it a local or a missed instVar. I tried it first as a local to enable save, but then...
TODOListPresenter >> updatePresenter

	todoListPresenter items: TODOTask selectAll asOrderedCollection
todoListPresenter isn't available for updatePresenter... so I'm assuming it must be an instvar? I created accessors, then changed all the todoListPresenter references to use the accessors (below).
TODOListPresenter >> initializePresenters

	self todoListPresenter: (self newTable
		addColumn: ((SpCheckBoxTableColumn evaluated: [:task | task isDone]) width: 20);
		addColumn: (SpStringTableColumn title: 'Title' evaluated: [:task | task title]);
		yourself).

	self layout: (SpBoxLayout newVertical 
		add: self todoListPresenter;
		yourself) 
and...
TODOListPresenter >> updatePresenter

	self todoListPresenter items: TODOTask selectAll asOrderedCollection
Also, in the first example - task isDone needs to be defined (and might be defined later in the tutorial) - I'm assuming SpCheckBoxTableColumn>>evaluated: is expecting a boolean, or do I need to convert this somehow? I can check all these things out - but just curious if I'm missing something?
TODOTask >> done

	^ done
TODOTask >> isDone

	^ self done
I'll go through a bit more and update you on my progress. Ted, I also hope to get to take a look at Zebra today :)
On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 2:07 PM Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 2 Aug 2020, at 19:51, tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've been thinking lately that it would be nice to expand the number of
Pharo tutorials we have available. But rather than (or along with)
creating
more "beginner" level tutorials, I'd like to see some good "intermediate"
level Pharo tutorials.

Me too :)

Let's do it, then. I'll volunteer to do most of the work. :^)

I will review anything you write :)

My hope is that participating in this will make me capable of creating
advanced tutorials all by myself.

I usually like to write to learn and dump what I learned.

I think that programmers who already know the Pharo
syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced tutorials
that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real world"
processing needs.

Yes yes I would love that.

That was part of my motivation for creating a Pharo app to solve the Zebra
Puzzle. First, of course, I wanted to solve it. ;^)

I will send you some feeedback and PR.

What I'm talking about is something that assumes you know the language,
the
basics of the IDE (but not necessarily how to leverage its capabilities
to
aid development), and the basics of the foundation classes (but not its
details). I'd like a tutorial for intermediate Pharo programmers who
want
to become experts with Pharo. Something that can show you how to apply
the
tools of the IDE and the features of the language and base classes to
create
solutions that solve complex problems.

do you have ideas?

I do!

As I started building the Logic Puzzle app, it occurred to me that I could
probably find several different, common structures in OOP (specifically,
Pharo) to add to the solution. And then each would be its own example of
"what real Pharo code looks like". I.e., be good examples.

But first, I needed to explore "how to do it in Pharo" for myself, which
naturally would have me working the IDE strongly.

Then I thought, the entire application can/should be an example, so it
should be a tutorial.

That means that I need more than just a completed application (that's "just
an example"). To be a *tutorial*, it means starting from scratch, showing
how to approach the solution, how to start a Pharo app, how to use the IDE,
how to write tests, how to refactor code, etc.

Then I thought, this needs a GUI. Either a Spec2 UI or a web app UI (with
Seaside or Teapot). But I would need help with that! So I'll start by
creating a message-based solution, and maybe get help to add a UI later.

I did some prototyping, then got what I think might be a good code structure
(by version 4; it took a while to "think pure OOP"; old habits are hard to
fight against). It runs, it works.

But.. Is it "good Pharo code"? I'm not experienced enough to answer that
question. I need a code review, criticism, guidance. Point me in the right
direction and I'll keep working on it, and start thinking about how to
express the "meta" elements (how to use the IDE to make/test the code,
etc.).

What does the community think of this idea?

I love it. I did Pharo by example so that I can get of rid of the beginner
parts.
After I did learning OOP and Pharo with style so that I do not have to talk
about it
again.

So definitively.

Okay, great. I'll do most of the work. But I need help...

I don't want to go any further without someone much more experienced than I
am to review what I have and let me know what I'm doing right & what I'm
doing "no quite so right". Yes, it runs, it works -- but that's *not* good
enough. The goal here isn't to "hack out a solution and move on", the goal
is to "create an example and tutorial that's high enough quality to use to
teach Pharo to other people". I don't want to be teaching *my* bad habits!

Also, I know next to nothing about Spec2 or Seaside/Teapot. I just know
that I need to learn it, and I need to use it to give my tutorial a UI (or
two). Newcomers will show up wanting to learn Pharo, and they need to be
reassured that they can create nice (enough) UIs without a huge effort.
(Not everyone is a command line hacker, and end-users certainly don't want
to be.)

The more I learn (from you), the more I can be independent, and the more
tutorials I could produce -- without a lot of help. I'm willing to do the
work, because that will help make me a Pharo "master programmer". (I don't
want to be a hack, and I can't really be a trainer if I'm just a hack
myself.)

I'll pay back the community by helping to attract and advance more
developers' skills. I just have to have the more advanced knowledge &
skills myself. So, train the (future) trainer, anyone??

-Ted

--
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--------------------------------------------
Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Aurore Dalle
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley,
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

--
Russ Whaley
[hidden email]

--------------------------------------------

Stéphane Ducasse

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org

03 59 35 87 52

Assistant: Aurore Dalle

FAX 03 59 57 78 50

TEL 03 59 35 86 16

S. Ducasse - Inria

40, avenue Halley,

Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza

Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650

France

tbrunz

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

I wrote a "theory of operation" document for my app,
https://github.com/tbrunz/logic-puzzle

But then I realized, "Where do I put it??"

I thought of a few possibilities:

* Commit it to the git repo, but then it wouldn't be easy to access from
Pharo,
* Add it to a top-level Pharo class comment,
* Make it into a string in Pharo, put it in a method in a class.

What's the standard practice for "attaching" non-code documents to Pharo
applications?

-t

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

I would put it in class comment.

We are about to release a nicer rendering of comments.

On 4 Aug 2020, at 06:46, tbrunz <[hidden email]> wrote:

I wrote a "theory of operation" document for my app,
https://github.com/tbrunz/logic-puzzle

But then I realized, "Where do I put it??"

I thought of a few possibilities:

* Commit it to the git repo, but then it wouldn't be easy to access from
Pharo,
* Add it to a top-level Pharo class comment,
* Make it into a string in Pharo, put it in a method in a class.

What's the standard practice for "attaching" non-code documents to Pharo
applications?

-t

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

--------------------------------------------

Stéphane Ducasse

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org

03 59 35 87 52

Assistant: Aurore Dalle

FAX 03 59 57 78 50

TEL 03 59 35 86 16

S. Ducasse - Inria

40, avenue Halley,

Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza

Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650

France

tbrunz

Re: Intermediate-Level Tutorials for Pharo

Okay, I'll do that. But this brings up a more general question...

If I wanted to add a diagram, or maybe a document with equations (rendered
in LaTex), then a class comment wouldn't work.

...Unless that's intended to be part of the newer format??

-t

> I would put it in class comment.
>
> We are about to release a nicer rendering of comments.
>
> S.
>
> > On 4 Aug 2020, at 06:46, tbrunz <wild.ideas@> wrote:
> >
> > I wrote a "theory of operation" document for my app,
> > https://github.com/tbrunz/logic-puzzle
> >
> > But then I realized, "Where do I put it??"
> >
> > I thought of a few possibilities:
> >
> > * Commit it to the git repo, but then it wouldn't be easy to access from
> > Pharo,
> > * Add it to a top-level Pharo class comment,
> > * Make it into a string in Pharo, put it in a method in a class.
> >
> > What's the standard practice for "attaching" non-code documents to Pharo
> > applications?
> >
> > -t
> >
>

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Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html