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Introduction - Business Application Developer

Sanjay Minni
Hi

My introduction:

I have been in an organization with several successful medium sized business applications as products and have been looking for some time for a good platform for next round of development.
For past several years I have been looking around for a suitable platform but despite deep interest in Smalltalk have regrettably not got anywhere. I have my own Dolphin license as well.

The primary reason for attempting on Smalltalk, is I feel a small team can do a great job - and this is a real plus as there are very few persons with development skills and domain expertise as well.

But here is where I fall short to get going - I have not really come across an "end-to-end" example business application to get us going. This was a huge plus in our erstwhile platform where we had a very good complete sample application / tutorial out of the box which closely matched to what we wanted to deliver commercially.

In my past postings Folks have been very helpful but somehow there is a gap in the advice that a not very technical person can build up on. To give an example - to build a UI - I was pointed to the Morphic Tutorial - but the Morphic tutorial is very difficult to digest. It has a long winded example on creating a "Cross". Fabulous capability no doubt but sure scares a simple Business app developr who want to put together a couple of screens to lets say print someones invoices.

To get started all I need is a sample application (Dolphin's "personal money" came some way but not what I was looking at) - as a start code for
- A sample UI for creating / editing a simple form
- A sample UI for creating / editing a master detail form
- creating formatted reports (print / PDF / xls)
- (above to use an RDBMS for storage / persistence) since these are commercially most common
- (delivering the application)
I think a simple invoicing application can become a good example easily understood by anyone - and if its of any interest if folks can guide me I can in return provide the tutorial to public domain.

I would just like to add most commercial developers are simple folks who would like a simple approach to coding - the domain side is pretty complicated anyway ad some appl become too vast before you realize it.

Regards
Sanjay

---
Regards, Sanjay
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Re: Introduction - Business Application Developer

Sanjay Minni

Well,

I did hope that I would excite (some) folks to help me set up a first minimal business application,

Here are the applications I would attempt to port to the platform chosen (Pharo-Smalltalk)
   http://www.minisoftindia.com/products/   ...(take a peek thru the "software preview" link on the right panel)
here is a direct link to one of the more mundane applications
   http://www.minisoftindia.com/paytime/index.html    ...(other application are far more exciting !!)

as you can see these applications look tired and dry
I do hope to get a jump start so I can make them look slick  

these are desktop based ... I need to make them both desktop and web based

looking forward to a response

Regards
Sanjay


 
---
Regards, Sanjay
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Re: Introduction - Business Application Developer

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by Sanjay Minni

> But here is where I fall short to get going - I have not really come across
> an "end-to-end" example business application to get us going. This was a
> huge plus in our erstwhile platform where we had a very good complete sample
> application / tutorial out of the box which closely matched to what we
> wanted to deliver commercially.
>
> In my past postings Folks have been very helpful but somehow there is a gap
> in the advice that a not very technical person can build up on. To give an
> example - to build a UI - I was pointed to the Morphic Tutorial - but the
> Morphic tutorial is very difficult to digest. It has a long winded example
> on creating a "Cross". Fabulous capability no doubt but sure scares a simple
> Business app developr who want to put together a couple of screens to lets
> say print someones invoices.

this is clear that Morphic and UI building is not at the level I want.

> To get started all I need is a sample application (Dolphin's "personal
> money" came some way but not what I was looking at) - as a start code for
> - A sample UI for creating / editing a simple form

did you check the new Spec tutorial?
I know that a nice table widgets is missing.
Did you look at Phobos?
Because Pavel did a spec to XULRunner outputer.
> - A sample UI for creating / editing a master detail form

Some people used maggritte to generate Morphic forms.

> - creating formatted reports (print / PDF / xls)

There is artefact for the pdf aspect, neoCSV (for printing you mean what postscript?)
We use latex generation.

> - (above to use an RDBMS for storage / persistence) since these are
> commercially most common

did you look at the support for
        MongoDB (Voyage), MySQLite,…


> - (delivering the application)
> I think a simple invoicing application can become a good example easily
> understood by anyone - and if its of any interest if folks can guide me I
> can in return provide the tutorial to public domain.

I would really like to see that happening.

>
> I would just like to add most commercial developers are simple folks who
> would like a simple approach to coding - the domain side is pretty
> complicated anyway ad some appl become too vast before you realize it.
>
> Regards
> Sanjay
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> ---
> Regards, Sanjay
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Introduction-Business-Application-Developer-tp4749549.html
> Sent from the Pharo Business mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-business mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-business_lists.pharo.org


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Re: Introduction - Business Application Developer

EstebanLM

On 19 Mar 2014, at 09:40, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> But here is where I fall short to get going - I have not really come across
>> an "end-to-end" example business application to get us going. This was a
>> huge plus in our erstwhile platform where we had a very good complete sample
>> application / tutorial out of the box which closely matched to what we
>> wanted to deliver commercially.
>>
>> In my past postings Folks have been very helpful but somehow there is a gap
>> in the advice that a not very technical person can build up on. To give an
>> example - to build a UI - I was pointed to the Morphic Tutorial - but the
>> Morphic tutorial is very difficult to digest. It has a long winded example
>> on creating a "Cross". Fabulous capability no doubt but sure scares a simple
>> Business app developr who want to put together a couple of screens to lets
>> say print someones invoices.
>
> this is clear that Morphic and UI building is not at the level I want.
>
>> To get started all I need is a sample application (Dolphin's "personal
>> money" came some way but not what I was looking at) - as a start code for
>> - A sample UI for creating / editing a simple form
>
> did you check the new Spec tutorial?
> I know that a nice table widgets is missing.
> Did you look at Phobos?
> Because Pavel did a spec to XULRunner outputer.
>> - A sample UI for creating / editing a master detail form
>
> Some people used maggritte to generate Morphic forms.
>
>> - creating formatted reports (print / PDF / xls)
>
> There is artefact for the pdf aspect, neoCSV (for printing you mean what postscript?)
> We use latex generation.
>
>> - (above to use an RDBMS for storage / persistence) since these are
>> commercially most common
>
> did you look at the support for
> MongoDB (Voyage), MySQLite,…
there is also DBXTalk, do not forget about it :)
it connects the most common RDBMS (oracle, mssql)
is not easy to bootstrap, but once is done, it works fine.

Esteban

>
>
>> - (delivering the application)
>> I think a simple invoicing application can become a good example easily
>> understood by anyone - and if its of any interest if folks can guide me I
>> can in return provide the tutorial to public domain.
>
> I would really like to see that happening.
>
>>
>> I would just like to add most commercial developers are simple folks who
>> would like a simple approach to coding - the domain side is pretty
>> complicated anyway ad some appl become too vast before you realize it.
>>
>> Regards
>> Sanjay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> ---
>> Regards, Sanjay
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Introduction-Business-Application-Developer-tp4749549.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Business mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-business mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-business_lists.pharo.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-business mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-business_lists.pharo.org


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Re: Introduction - Business Application Developer

Clément Bera-4
In reply to this post by Sanjay Minni
Hello,


To get started all I need is a sample application (Dolphin's "personal
money" came some way but not what I was looking at) - as a start code for
- A sample UI for creating / editing a simple form
- A sample UI for creating / editing a master detail form

For forms usually people uses Spec (directly integrated into Pharo 3) or Glamour.

There are Spec documentation here:

Now I see you are used to build UI with Microsoft frameworks, so I guess you use the win form drag and drop UI builder. With Spec we need right now to write a description of the UI, the drag and drop UI builder (called UIPainter) is available only as beta version.

In addition, there is the problem of native windows. Spec has 2 back ends, Morphic that you know, that generates widget into the main Pharo window, and Mars which generates widgets in gtk/cocoa native windows. The Mars back end is not production ready, but it could be with a little work if you are interested.

If you can do it, I would recommend to do a web-based UI. Pharo has more tools to do it and much more examples of successful applications. If you want successful examples I can give you some links but most of them are closed-source.

- creating formatted reports (print / PDF / xls)

To generate pdf you can use Artefact. A few companies now use it successfully.

Here is the framework:

Additional information:

To start using Artefact, you should look at the Artefact tutorial in the Help Browser of Pharo (accessible from the World menu). 

framework in action:


I can give you the mails of the 2 maintainers of this framework if you need additional information.

There is a very good documentation in addition but it's in French. Do you speak French ?

- (above to use an RDBMS for storage / persistence) since these are
commercially most common

Even if object database are recommended with Pharo, you can use DBXTalk for relational databases. I've never done it so I cannot help. I think there's guy working on it for Pharo 3. I could give you his mail if you need. 
 
- (delivering the application)
I think a simple invoicing application can become a good example easily
understood by anyone - and if its of any interest if folks can guide me I
can in return provide the tutorial to public domain.

To deploy your app you can look at this page:


Regards
Sanjay


I hope I helped... 
 


-----
---
Regards, Sanjay
--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Introduction-Business-Application-Developer-tp4749549.html
Sent from the Pharo Business mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
Pharo-business mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-business_lists.pharo.org


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Re: Introduction - Business Application Developer

Sanjay Minni
Thanks Stef, Clement

Ok

let me begin with a simple screen using Spec - on Win 7 platform. As of now will use SQLLite for storage (when I come to it).

incidentally I tried getting UIPainter in Pharo3 (image could be a couple of weeks back) using command below but it did not load successfully

Gofer new
   smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'UIPainter';
   configurationOf: 'UIPainter';
   load.
ConfigurationOfUIPainter load.

Clement ... can work around the doc in French using translate.google.com

Overall will be a slow as I can give an hour a day between current work and I am not very technically savvy

thanks
Sanjay  
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Re: Introduction - Business Application Developer

Stéphane Ducasse

On 19 Mar 2014, at 15:22, Sanjay-M <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Stef, Clement
>
> Ok
>
> let me begin with a simple screen using Spec - on Win 7 platform. As of now
> will use SQLLite for storage (when I come to it).
>
> incidentally I tried getting UIPainter in Pharo3 (image could be a couple of
> weeks back) using command below but it did not load successfully

forget the painter.
It is just a student experiment.

>
> Gofer new
>   smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'UIPainter';
>   configurationOf: 'UIPainter';
>   load.
> ConfigurationOfUIPainter load.
>
> Clement ... can work around the doc in French using translate.google.com
>
> Overall will be a slow as I can give an hour a day between current work and
> I am not very technically savvy
>
> thanks
> Sanjay  
>
>
>
>
> -----
> ---
> Regards, Sanjay
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Introduction-Business-Application-Developer-tp4749549p4749802.html
> Sent from the Pharo Business mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-business mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-business_lists.pharo.org


_______________________________________________
Pharo-business mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-business_lists.pharo.org
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