Is Squeak broken on Mac OS X 10.12.2 ???

I've just tried Squeak 5.1 for the first time.

I'm a complete newbie to Smalltalk and hence am starting with the book "Squeak A Quick Trip to Object Land" which covers Squeak 3.

5.1 crashes on the Mac when you try to save a Morphic project. This seems to be a known issue. (0007865). I'm very confused by this as 5.1 seems to be the current version(and thus usable/stable?). Am I missing something obvious?

I've just downloaded 4.4 all-in-one which allows me to save a Morphic project. Should I use this version to learn Smalltalk, or wait for 5.1 to be fixed?

Sorry for the lame question.

Matt

Matt wrote:

>I've just tried Squeak 5.1 for the first time.

Hi Matt,

It would be nice to share a bit more about your background.
What programming experience do you have?

>
>I'm a complete newbie to Smalltalk and hence am starting with the book
>"Squeak A Quick Trip to Object Land" which covers Squeak 3.

Personally I do not use the 'Projects' functionality but it seems not to
work on the Squeak 6.0 alpha.

If your goal is to learn Smalltalk, you don't really need it.

I don't know the book you are referring to.

>
>5.1 crashes on the Mac when you try to save a Morphic project. This seems
>to be a known issue. (0007865). I'm very confused by this as 5.1 seems to
>be the current version(and thus usable/stable?). Am I missing something
>obvious?
>
>I've just downloaded 4.4 all-in-one which allows me to save a Morphic
>project. Should I use this version to learn Smalltalk, or wait for 5.1 to
>be fixed?
>
>Sorry for the lame question.

To get acquainted with Smalltalk, I would recommend

'Smalltalk The Language', first ten chapters. It is a refreshing read. It
does not even require you to have access to a computer to make sense of it.
An old-style kind of book.

To get acquainted with Squeak, I would recommend

'Squeak By Example'. This is still somewhat dated, but it is the kind of
hands-on approach book to Squeak.

Also, have a look at the Pharo project and 'Pharo By Example' book. They
even have a MOOC course complete with videos, updated for the current Pharo
5.0, that will get you up to speed with Smalltalk.

Best Regards,

Milan Vavra

Milan Vavra wrote:
>What programming experience do you have?

No real experience to speak of. Some C and Objective C many years ago.  And BASIC as a child. Recently I’ve been playing with Scratch (1.4 was a Squeak app, current version is sadly Flash) with my son.

I watch a lot of Alan Kay talks. If you do that enough I think there comes a point where you just feel you have to learn Smalltalk.

I’d like to learn Smalltalk as a language to teach my son in the near future, so the Squeak environment seems a good option. I’ll try Pharo too, as you suggested.

>Personally I do not use the 'Projects' functionality but it seems not to
>work on the Squeak 6.0 alpha.

Is there is straightforward way to save my work in Squeak without using the Projects functionality?

>To get acquainted with Smalltalk, I would recommend 'Smalltalk The Language'
>To get acquainted with Squeak, I would recommend 'Squeak By Example'.

I will work through Squeak By Example, and Smalltalk-80: the Language, as you suggested.

Thank you very much for your detailed and thoughtful reply. I deeply appreciate you taking your time to help me.

Matt

Matt wrote:

> Is there is straightforward way to save my work in Squeak without using the
> Projects functionality?

First, the image itself can be used to save your work.

The .image + .changes as a pair, say
Squeak5.1-16549-32bit.changes
Squeak5.1-16549-32bit.image
can be used to save your work.

You need about 40MB for each pair. More if you add stuff.

Name them whatever you want, say
MyClockProject.image,
MyClockProject.changes.

You can think of a Squeak image + changes pair as a really big Excel
spreadsheet. Sort of. It contains both the code and the results, and when
you save it and later open it - it will be in the state it was in before,
when you saved it.

Then there are change sets which look like ordinary source code and
Monticello, which is Squeak's esoteric packaging system.

For more info on all of these see
'Squeak By Example'.

As you play with Squeak, you will find things that are broken.
Some you can fix yourself.
Some others will be able to fix.
Some will remain broken until someone fixes them.

Milan