Issue 7394 in pharo: Pharo does not start on first run after downloading on Windows

Status: New
Owner: ----
Labels: Milestone-2.0 Type-FirstImpressionsCount

New issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on first run  
after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

On Windows 7, I just downloaded and unzipped into one directory pharo-20504  
& nbcog-2012-12-07.  Double-clicked on NBCog.exe.

Pharo did not open, except I noticed that NBCog.ini was created.  So  
double-clicking on NBCog.exe a second time successfully opened Pharo.




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Comment #1 on issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on  
first run after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

almost sure this is because the download of the sources file.

can you check if that is the case?


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Comment #2 on issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on  
first run after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

If it worked the second time, that means the download worked ;-)

I just tried on my machine (mac): I deleted the .sources and started a  
#20511 image: the main window was blank for a couple of seconds and then  
came up as usual. Which is a cool service.

We should find some way to provide feedback as to what is happening.

And putting up a dialog is no option headless, unless the image knows  
whether it is headerless...

But maybe this windows ini things is some other problem ?



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Comment #3 on issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on  
first run after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

The windows ini is created (by the VM) if the VM does not find one.
At least this is the behavior since Andreas initial "Squeak.exe" VM.

I'm sure the problem is because the source file is downloaded.
It's a nice idea to download it if it is not there - but since
nothing is shown meanwhile the user is helpless since he thinks
Pharo does not start. You can check the Task manager to see if
Pharo VM is running.

I would vote for that if the source file is not there then
a message box should open to inform the user.

If the Pharo window/Morphic it not available yet one can use
NativeBoost to open a native windows message box:

      NBWin32MessageBox messageBox: NBWin32Window getFocus text: 'Pharo  
will download the source file. Click OK to continue.' title: 'Pharo' flags:  
0

Note that this is Win-platform only.


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Comment #5 on issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on  
first run after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

I just tried this myself on Windows 8, and yes it is slower there, with no  
visual indication that something is happening, on Mac there is a blank  
window.

But you do see the .sources appearing in the VM directory, while its size  
increases ;-)


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Updates:
        Cc: [hidden email] [hidden email]

Comment #6 on issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on  
first run after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

"I just tried this myself on Windows 8, and yes it is slower there, with no  
visual indication that something is happening, on Mac there is a blank  
window."

Neither of these is a great user experience. It's fine for us developers,  
but it would be awesome to provide visual feedback for newer users.


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Comment #7 on issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on  
first run after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

I didn't notice before but Yes it is the sources.  For 30 seconds while I  
watch the .sources file size increasing, there is no visible application.    
What was doubly-confusing was my perception that VM had immediately exited  
and that immediately clicking again on Pharo.exe was "re-starting" Pharo -  
when actually this started a second VM for which the window appeared  
straight away - 28 seconds before the first VM window appears. At first  
glance it seemed this second Window worked okay.

The quick fix for this would be to just include the .sources file -  
especially for the OneClick which is probably more sued by newbies.  
Automatically downloading .sources is "really cool", but is it really a  
critical for 2.0?  Bandwidth is massive nowdays and ultimately the same  
amount of bytes are downloaded.  My usual download process (perhaps the  
same with a lot of others) is to browse other sites while a download is  
running. So I don't lose any "real time" since I fill the gap  
productively.  Whereas once  I go to start Pharo, any delay is burning  
my "real time".


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Comment #8 on issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on  
first run after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

Of course, a .sources will be included in the one-click, which is  
specifically for beginners.

Now, this auto download does safe space and bandwidth because the .sources  
is download in the same directory of the VM, to increase the chance that it  
is shared by images started in different directories.

Not including a .sources in a download of version X (.image + .changes  
pair) saves on storage and bandwidth for the whole community, especially  
those downloading versions all the time.

Again, the fix to this isssue is in some sort of UI indication that works  
in both headless and UI situations.

Note that before, you got an error: .sources missing ;-)



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Comment #9 on issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on  
first run after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

<correction>
Now, this auto download does save space and bandwidth because the .sources  
is downloaded in the same directory of the VM, to increase the chance that  
it is shared by images started in different directories.
</correction>


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Comment #10 on issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on  
first run after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

Looking at Pharo20510.zip, it is 17MB without .sources and with .sources it  
is 20MB.  In terms of today's bandwidth that doesn't seem so great that it  
should should  divert resources from releasing 2.0.

Including the .sources only with the .image/.changes 2.0-release wont  
affect those downloading other new versions all the time.

Just trying to reduce the work needed for you guys to get over with 2.0.  
IF you run out of time this could be looked at further after 2.0 release.


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Comment #11 on issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on  
first run after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

In 3.0 I want to have just one file:  The Image. Maybe called .pharo?

-> sources are compressed inside (and for all those yelling: too large!,  
no, it is not).
-> history is kept for every save inside until you commit to MC
-> a log file is written for code changes if wanted (in case of image crash)
-> maybe we will even compress small images (<25MB) automatically on save  
(lz4 is fast...).

This then allows us to simplify the story quite a lot:

-> installers for all three oses that install the VM with a read-only  
master image as an Application.
-> When starting that is starts the fresh image, on save it saves it like a  
document to the users files
-> .pharo files then can be started by double click or dragging them on the  
VM.






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Comment #12 on issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on  
first run after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

Excellent strategy / future to look forward to !


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Updates:
        Status: Closed

Comment #13 on issue 7394 by [hidden email]: Pharo does not start on  
first run after downloading on Windows
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7394

The ini realted problem should be fixed with Issue 7484

For the source code dowload, there is Issue 7129

I close this one


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