Learning by download all the mcz files from a repository

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Learning by download all the mcz files from a repository

HwaJong Oh
I plan to study history of Metacello.
For that I came up with an idea, what if i download all the mcz in the metacello repository on squeaksource.
Then sort them by commit time stamp.

installing very first version of Metacello to last version of Metacello-Help. Every moment of installation, see the difference by clicking "Changes" button of monticello browser.

By doing it, i can grasp the idea, the indents of version and understand how the design has been changed and know the direction of change.

What do you think of this idea?

-HwaJong Oh-
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Re: Learning by download all the mcz files from a repository

Schwab,Wilhelm K
Do you see yourself acting as scientist or student?  Good scientists *are* students (learning never stops), but the distinction I am making is more about what you plan to get from this.  If you see this as a scientific exercise, you will want to collect or map the changes to some type of reportable data (object oriented metrics, graph theoretic representation, etc.).

If I were going to do this, I would grab the .mcz files (cheap storage is a good thing) and work toward having an image do the loading and looking.  Along the way, it would create the "data trail" that would ultimately be of interest.  That would likely be iterative, meaning that I would expect to do what you describe (looking at the changes, no doubt with the aid of conditional breakpoints) at various steps along the way, but the goal would probably be to summarize what is happening.

Good luck.



________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of HwaJong Oh [[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 3:23 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Pharo-project] Learning by download all the mcz files from a  repository

I plan to study history of Metacello.
For that I came up with an idea, what if i download all the mcz in the
metacello repository on squeaksource.
Then sort them by commit time stamp.

installing very first version of Metacello to last version of
Metacello-Help. Every moment of installation, see the difference by clicking
"Changes" button of monticello browser.

By doing it, i can grasp the idea, the indents of version and understand how
the design has been changed and know the direction of change.

What do you think of this idea?

-HwaJong Oh-
--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Learning-by-download-all-the-mcz-files-from-a-repository-tp2966289p2966289.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Learning by download all the mcz files from a repository

Igor Stasenko
In reply to this post by HwaJong Oh
On 7 October 2010 10:23, HwaJong Oh <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I plan to study history of Metacello.
> For that I came up with an idea, what if i download all the mcz in the
> metacello repository on squeaksource.
> Then sort them by commit time stamp.
>
> installing very first version of Metacello to last version of
> Metacello-Help. Every moment of installation, see the difference by clicking
> "Changes" button of monticello browser.
>
> By doing it, i can grasp the idea, the indents of version and understand how
> the design has been changed and know the direction of change.
>
> What do you think of this idea?

Isn't it would be faster to read design document(s), or other documentation? :)
Unless you wanna study, how it does the things under  the hood, why
spending so much effort on it?

>
> -HwaJong Oh-
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Learning-by-download-all-the-mcz-files-from-a-repository-tp2966289p2966289.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>



--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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Re: Learning by download all the mcz files from a repository

Alexandre Bergel
In reply to this post by HwaJong Oh
Hi!

Romain Robbes has been working on exactly this:
http://www.squeaksource.com/Ecco.html

I also provide a way to profile each version of a given package in the Spy repository.

Cheers,
Alexandre

On 7 Oct 2010, at 03:23, HwaJong Oh wrote:

>
> I plan to study history of Metacello.
> For that I came up with an idea, what if i download all the mcz in the
> metacello repository on squeaksource.
> Then sort them by commit time stamp.
>
> installing very first version of Metacello to last version of
> Metacello-Help. Every moment of installation, see the difference by clicking
> "Changes" button of monticello browser.
>
> By doing it, i can grasp the idea, the indents of version and understand how
> the design has been changed and know the direction of change.
>
> What do you think of this idea?
>
> -HwaJong Oh-
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Learning-by-download-all-the-mcz-files-from-a-repository-tp2966289p2966289.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.






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Re: Learning by download all the mcz files from a repository

HwaJong Oh
In reply to this post by Igor Stasenko
Maybe it is not worth my time. Thanks for advice. :-)
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Re: Learning by download all the mcz files from a repository

HwaJong Oh
In reply to this post by Schwab,Wilhelm K
Your name is very familar. Are you Bill Schwab from Dolphin community? If true, hi!

I just want to be productive by learning packages effectively by researching better way of doing it. This idea is just one of them. The point of the idea is, sometimes knowing history can explain better than just knowing present. Quantum theory is very hard to understand, but its history tells us why the equations has to change. Some unexplainable facts enters and new theory can expain the past facts and new facts together. I think it is very similar in software. It has to change for a reason which was not the case in the past.

Besides I can find some classes which do not change in the timeline. They can be considered as core concept of the package.



Best regards
HwaJong Oh
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Re: Learning by download all the mcz files from a repository

Schwab,Wilhelm K
I thought your name was familiar.  Hello!

One caution/suggestion about your idea: a piece of code could be left unchanged because it is unused or poorly maintained.  There are parts of the network, streams, file system, etc. that *should* have changed long ago.  Core concept or complacency?  But even calling attention to what does and does not change without knowing why could have some value.  Note the reference to similar work in this thread.

Bill


________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of HwaJong Oh [[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 8:38 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Learning by download all the mcz files from        a       repository

Your name is very familar. Are you Bill Schwab from Dolphin community? If
true, hi!

I just want to be productive by learning packages effectively by researching
better way of doing it. This idea is just one of them. The point of the idea
is, sometimes knowing history can explain better than just knowing present.
Quantum theory is very hard to understand, but its history tells us why the
equations has to change. Some unexplainable facts enters and new theory can
expain the past facts and new facts together. I think it is very similar in
software. It has to change for a reason which was not the case in the past.

Besides I can find some classes which do not change in the timeline. They
can be considered as core concept of the package.



Best regards
HwaJong Oh

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Learning-by-download-all-the-mcz-files-from-a-repository-tp2966289p2969523.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Pharo-project mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: Learning by download all the mcz files from a repository

HwaJong Oh
In reply to this post by Alexandre Bergel
Hi, Alex.
sorry for late reply i've been busy could not have time to review Ecco.

I have a small question, I can find Ecco is treating 'Seaside' package special than other ones. Does it have some purpose?

Have a good one
HwaJong Oh