Live update not working for Dolphin 5.1 Pro

I try to create a fresh 5.1.4 image but I can't !
With the menu item "Dolphin Smalltalk Professional (fresh install)", I can
create an 5.1 image.  When I try to update it to 5.1.4, Dolphin tells me
that there are no "new updates available" ...

As D6 has some problems, I need to use the previous stable release.  What
can I do ?

Thanks,

Joseph

Joseph,

> I try to create a fresh 5.1.4 image but I can't !
> With the menu item "Dolphin Smalltalk Professional (fresh install)", I can
> create an 5.1 image.  When I try to update it to 5.1.4, Dolphin tells me
> that there are no "new updates available" ...
>
> As D6 has some problems, I need to use the previous stable release.  What
> can I do ?

I think I have everything you need but it is OA's IP.

Andy, is is ok for me or another user to email the files to Joseph?
With that query/offer on the record, I think 5.1 deserves a
comprehensive installer with the compiler/vm/stub fixes and patches in
place.

Have a good one,

Bill

--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]

Joseph,

> I try to create a fresh 5.1.4 image but I can't !

It works for me.  I generated a fresh 5.1.4 a couple of days ago and I
just tried again - it worked without a problem.

If you have a firewall check that you haven't told it to allow the "new"
dolphin.exe net access and it is blocking the old 5.1.4 exe.

> As D6 has some problems, I need to use the previous stable release.  What
> can I do ?

I was just thinking how well the D6 went, with a lack of any major
problems.  What makes you think D6 is unstable?

--
Ian

Use the Reply-To address to contact me.
Mail sent to the From address is ignored.

Joseph,

> I try to create a fresh 5.1.4 image but I can't !
> With the menu item "Dolphin Smalltalk Professional (fresh install)",
> I can create an 5.1 image.  When I try to update it to 5.1.4, Dolphin
> tells me that there are no "new updates available" ...

The Dolphin 5.1 live updates are still in place on the server and will
remain there for the foreseeable future so you should have no problems
upgrading the basic image. I suspect they may have been a problem with
the Internet connection at either your or our end when you last tried.

>
> As D6 has some problems, I need to use the previous stable release.
> What can I do ?

I'm surprised you say this. As far as we can see from this end, most of
the bugs that have been reported so far are fairly minor. Can you say
which of the problems are showstoppers for you? My personal feeling is
that D6 is a more stable release than D5 not least because it contains
well over 100 bug fixes to the latter's code.

best regards,

--
Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com

Bill,

> I think I have everything you need but it is OA's IP.
>
> Andy, is is ok for me or another user to email the files to Joseph?
> With that query/offer on the record, I think 5.1 deserves a
> comprehensive installer with the compiler/vm/stub fixes and patches
> in place.

No, we'd rather you didn't do this. The 5.1.4 patches are still in
place on the Object Arts server and once the basic image is patched it
is very easy for a user to made a copy of the patched image file so
that the process doesn't need be performed again.

The reason that we haven't issued a patched version of 5.1 in the past
is that it is not trivial for us to create one. For some unknown reason
the InstallShield build process no longer works and given the amount of
time it took to set it up in the first place I do not relish the idea
of spending time fixing it (yes you can take this as a negative
advertisement for InstallShield). If it had been easy to upload a
patched 5.1.4 we would have done it long ago rather than now.

Given that even the Microsoft behemoth doesn't issue patched releases
of its operating systems but relies on an "live update" after install I
don't feel too bad about this.

Best Regards,

--
Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com

Joseph,

> > I try to create a fresh 5.1.4 image but I can't !
>
> It works for me.  I generated a fresh 5.1.4 a couple of days ago and
> I just tried again - it worked without a problem.
>
> If you have a firewall check that you haven't told it to allow the
> "new" dolphin.exe net access and it is blocking the old 5.1.4 exe.

I should just say that if you still can't get the 5.1 Live Update
working after trying Ian's suggestions, then e-mail me and I will
forward the patch files to you directly.

best regards,

--
Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com

It's working now.  I don't know what happened, I never got an error message,
only  "There are no new updates available for this version of Dolphin".

Is there a way to extract the updates so that I can apply them to a fresh
image without an Internet access ?

After reading about the various problems on the newsgroup, I am reluctant to
develop "real" thing in D6 because I have already enough problems with my
own errors and I prefer to wait until the first update.  I must admit that I
am not very at ease with the concept of image : I'm always afraid to
contaminate it silently.

Thanks,

Joseph

Joseph,

> It's working now.  I don't know what happened, I never got an error
> message, only  "There are no new updates available for this version
> of Dolphin".

I suppose it would be better if Live Update actually reported that it
couldn't contact the site but, IIRC the error reporting from the
Windows functions we use is not that great.

> Is there a way to extract the updates so that I can apply them to a
> fresh image without an Internet access ?

Yes, if you right click on the patches in the list inside Live Update
then you have the option to open them into a workspace window. You can
then save out the patch files to an ST file. However, a better way
might be to just install a fresh image and patch it and then do a
"File/Save Image as" to a backup directory. That way, if you want to
start afresh you can just copy the three backup files back to your
working directory and you'll have a fresh, patched 5.1.4 image ready to
go.

> After reading about the various problems on the newsgroup, I am
> reluctant to develop "real" thing in D6 because I have already enough
> problems with my own errors and I prefer to wait until the first
> update.  I must admit that I am not very at ease with the concept of
> image : I'm always afraid to contaminate it silently.

Well, if it is any encouragement, let me just say that we are running
our live stock trading applications (www.alchemetrics.org) and the
Object Arts website using Dolphin 6 so I think this demonstrates a
certain amount of confidence in our own product. Also, whenever I have
to go back to Dolphin 5 I find it very hard to get used to the lack of
auto completion etc.

Anyway, the first patch level should be available early next week if
you want to wait for that.

Best regards,

--
Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com

Joseph,

>       I must admit that I
> am not very at ease with the concept of image : I'm always afraid to
> contaminate it silently.

Andy - please stop reading this reply :-)








Some of us feel the same way.  It's probably irrational, in my case
going back to difficulties I had when learning Smalltalk 18 or so years
ago, but it is a legitimate view.

You don't _need_ to always save the image.  My preference, as has been
mentioned many times before :-), is to have a base image (the OA
original), a patched image (a base image updated with OA patches) and a
working image (a patched image containing tried and trusted additions).

I always [1] use the working image and never [2] save it when I close
Dolphin.  I keep all my work in packages and load the packages I want to
work on at the beginning of every session.  Advantages?

1) Less danger of the contamination you mention.
2) Less clutter in the image.
3) The knowledge that the packages are complete and loadable.

The only downside, as far as I'm concerned, is that it is possible to
quit an image before saving a package but, IMHO, saving packages does
become an automatic action and even if you forget there's always the
change log to rescue you.

[1] Except when deploying.
[2] Well, almost never.  I do do image saves when debugging to enable me
to get back to a consistent state.

--
Ian

Use the Reply-To address to contact me.
Mail sent to the From address is ignored.

Andy,

> No, we'd rather you didn't do this.

That's why I asked.


 > The 5.1.4 patches are still in
> place on the Object Arts server and once the basic image is patched it
> is very easy for a user to made a copy of the patched image file so
> that the process doesn't need be performed again.

Ok.


> Given that even the Microsoft behemoth doesn't issue patched releases
> of its operating systems but relies on an "live update" after install I
> don't feel too bad about this.

While I find using Microsoft as an example of customer service to be
somewhat questionable <g>, having the 5.1 patches visible to Live Update
is certainly sufficient.

FWIW, my offer of an Inno-based installer script for the compiler, vm,
and (it occurs to me that I need to check this one!) stubs stands.  I
found that once I patched the image, I had other machines that were
"stuck" with the older builds.  I would welcome any necessary
corrections to that installer.

Have a good one,

Bill


--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]

Joseph,

> It's working now.  I don't know what happened, I never got an error message,
> only  "There are no new updates available for this version of Dolphin".
>
> Is there a way to extract the updates so that I can apply them to a fresh
> image without an Internet access ?

I'm not at a Dolphin aware machine right now, but try right clicking on
the entry or look for a button on the LU shell.  IIRC, it is willing to
save the .st file, or perhaps let you view it in a workspace (from which
you can save it).  Failing that, back out the URL and save the file to
your drive.  I know it can be done because I did it, I just don't
remember how.


> After reading about the various problems on the newsgroup, I am reluctant to
> develop "real" thing in D6 because I have already enough problems with my
> own errors and I prefer to wait until the first update.  I must admit that I
> am not very at ease with the concept of image : I'm always afraid to
> contaminate it silently.

That is the dark side of an image, but with backups and some attention
to subtle changes in behavior (Mr. Spock, the ship _feels_ wrong), it
can be used quite safely.

See MaintainingAnImage etc. on the wiki.

Have a good one,

Bill


--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
[hidden email]

"Ian Bartholomew" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
[..]
> I always [1] use the working image and never [2] save it when I close
> Dolphin.  I keep all my work in packages and load the packages I want to
> work on at the beginning of every session.  Advantages?
[..]
If I may ask ...
I suppose that you use a script to load the needed packages ?
How do you do that ?  Do you have an example ?
How to execute it at the beginning of a session ?

Thanks,

Joseph

Joseph,

> If I may ask ...

Of course.

> I suppose that you use a script to load the needed packages ?

I can't say I've ever needed a script for that,  Maybe my usage of
Dolphin is a lot simpler than others but I very rarely need to load more
than one package - the Package prerequisite loader automatically
installs any other needed packages for me.  If the package needs
initialization before or after being loaded then I will use the package
  scripts for that.

> How do you do that ?  Do you have an example ?
> How to execute it at the beginning of a session ?

I do use a script when creating my working image from the patched image.
  It's just a Dolphin workspace, save to a .st file, that I load using
the main File menu.  I've copied my current script below; as you can see
it's just a series of statements that set the image up with my
preferences, modify a few views and load required packages.

=========

| packages viewComposer  subView |

SmalltalkSystem current defaultFont: (Font  name: 'Arial' pointSize: 9).
SmalltalkWorkspace defaultFont:  (Font  name: 'Times New Roman'
pointSize: 11).
MethodExplorerShell defaultExtent: 792@500.
ResourceBrowser defaultExtent: 630@585.
TipOfTheDay showTipsAtStartup: false.
SmalltalkSystem current formatterClass: RBConfigurableFormatter.

viewComposer := ViewComposer show: 'Vertical view'.

viewComposer openOn: (ResourceIdentifier class: ResourceToolboxPresenter
name: 'Default view').
subView:= viewComposer composingView viewNamed: 'categories'.
subView viewMode: #list.
viewComposer fileSave.

viewComposer openOn: (ResourceIdentifier class: CodeMentorPlugin name:
'Default view').
subView:= viewComposer composingView subViews second subViews third.
subView preferredExtent: 80@21.
viewComposer fileSave.

viewComposer openOn: (ResourceIdentifier class: AdvancedFindDialog name:
'Default view').
subView:= viewComposer composingView subViews first subViews third
subViews third.
subView extent: 101@85.
subView:= viewComposer composingView subViews first subViews third
subViews first.
subView extent: 144@85.
viewComposer fileSave.

viewComposer openOn: (ResourceIdentifier class: AdvancedFindDialog name:
'Directionless view').
subView:= viewComposer composingView subViews first subViews third
subViews second.
subView extent: 103@87.
subView:= viewComposer composingView subViews first subViews third
subViews first.
subView extent: 143@87.
viewComposer fileSave.

viewComposer openOn: (ResourceIdentifier class: AdvancedFindDialog name:
'Selector view').
subView:= viewComposer composingView subViews first subViews third
subViews second.
subView extent: 103@87.
subView:= viewComposer composingView subViews first subViews third
subViews first.
subView extent: 143@87.
viewComposer fileSave.

viewComposer exit.

packages := #(
        'IDB Common.pac'
        'IDB Method History.pac'
        'IDB IDE Method Filer Extension.pac'
        'IDB IDE Package Backup.pac'
        'IDB IDE Class Print Extension.pac'
        'IDB Duration.pac'
        'IDB DateAndTime.pac'
        'IDB Chunk Browser.pac'
        'IDB MultipleFileOpenDialog.pac'
        'IDB DeviceIndependentBitmap.pac'
        'IDB Snoop.pac'
        'IDB File Browser.pac'
        'IDB CurrencyToText.pac'
        'IDB News Archive Browser.pac'
        'IDB PoolDictionary Browser.pac'
        'IDB Image Library.pac'
        'IDB Serial.pac'
        'IDB Profiler.pac'
        'IDB Printer.pac'
        'IDB IDE Printer.pac'
        'IDB TextDocument.pac'
        'IDB Report.pac').
packages do: [:each |
        PackageManager current install: (FileLocator imageRelative
localFileSpecFor: 'Idb\' , each)].
PackageManager current install: (FileLocator imageRelative
localFileSpecFor: 'DSDN\DSDN.pac')

=========

--
Ian

Use the Reply-To address to contact me.
Mail sent to the From address is ignored.