Lively2-rc3
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Dear List,
we have now created a zip file with a stripped version of our WebWerkstatt that contains all the source and instructions needed to create own Lively wikis: http://lively-kernel.org/other/releases/Lively2-rc3.zip Could someone test the install procedure and point out the parts we should explain more. Best, Jens _______________________________________________ lively-kernel mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel |
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if it's of any value - I thought I'd try the automated install - not sure if it is supposed to work. The result is that it installed but apache failed to start. This is on OpenSUSE 11.4.
This is what I did: 1) su - root # [just for first try] 2) downloaded http://lively-kernel.org/other/livelyFiles/lively_installer.sh , copied to $HOME/software/lively 3) cd $HOME/software/lively 4) chmod u+x lively_installer.sh 5) lively_installer.sh 6) # The above ran and created /opt/lampp 7) cd /opt/lampp 8) # could not run as nobody XAMPP_USER="nobody:root" sudo -u `echo $XAMPP_USER | sed 's/:.*//'` -g `echo $XAMPP_USER | sed 's/.*://'` ./lampp startapache # some error 9) # so tried su - root # pass 10) ./lampp startapache # same error for just ./lampp start # message # XAMPP: Starting Apache with SSL (and PHP5)... # XAMPP: Error 1! Couldn't start Apache! # XAMPP: Starting diagnose... # XAMPP: Sorry, I've no idea what's going wrong. # XAMPP: Please contact our forum http://www.apachefriends.org/f/ # apache error log: # httpd: Syntax error on line 511 of /opt/lampp/etc/httpd.conf: Syntax error on line 6 of /opt/lampp/etc/extra/lk.conf: Cannot load /opt/lampp/modules/mod_dav_svn.so into server: libsvn_repos-1.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory # libsvn_repos-1.so.1 does not exist in lampp/lib - perhaps the lively lampp need be statically linked or maybe need to pass BTW, I do have subversion installed, and libsvn_repos-1.so.1 is in /usr/lib64. Exporting LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib64 (well not the right thing anyway because it is in /etc/ld.so.conf) did not make any difference. I will also try to just regular install to apache2 using the install.txt. I think I would not "get" the first section of install.txt without looking at the automated install. regards, milan
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Jens Lincke <[hidden email]> wrote: Dear List, _______________________________________________ lively-kernel mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel |
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Hi Milan,
this is some valuable information, indeed. We tested the installer on Ubuntu (x86) as LAMPP is 32-bit only. There seem to be two things that need fixing in your case. - libsvn_repos-1.so.1 would not load because it's x86_64, apparently. That means that we should probably ship a 32-bit version of SVN with the installer. - LAMPP does not run as nobody. This might be an OpenSUSE-specific thing. Have you tried running a fresh LAMPP installation on your system without the Lively part? If it does work, please tell us what user Apache is running as. Unfortunately I don't have a 64-bit OpenSUSE system at hand right now. If you're trying a manual install, it might be helpful to have a look at the OSX installer: http://lively-kernel.org/other/livelyFiles/lively_installer_osx.sh Good luck! Regards, Fabian On 8/21/11 4:37 AM, milan zimmermann wrote: > if it's of any value - I thought I'd try the automated install - not > sure if it is supposed to work. The result is that it installed but > apache failed to start. This is on OpenSUSE 11.4. > > This is what I did: > > 1) su - root # [just for first try] > 2) downloaded > http://lively-kernel.org/other/livelyFiles/lively_installer.sh , copied > to $HOME/software/lively > 3) cd $HOME/software/lively > 4) chmod u+x lively_installer.sh > 5) lively_installer.sh > 6) # The above ran and created /opt/lampp > 7) cd /opt/lampp > 8) # could not run as nobody > XAMPP_USER="nobody:root" > sudo -u `echo $XAMPP_USER | sed 's/:.*//'` -g `echo $XAMPP_USER | sed > 's/.*://'` ./lampp startapache > # some error > > 9) # so tried > su - root > # pass > > 10) ./lampp startapache # same error for just ./lampp start > # message > # XAMPP: Starting Apache with SSL (and PHP5)... > # XAMPP: Error 1! Couldn't start Apache! > # XAMPP: Starting diagnose... > # XAMPP: Sorry, I've no idea what's going wrong. > # XAMPP: Please contact our forum http://www.apachefriends.org/f/ > > # apache error log: > # httpd: Syntax error on line 511 of /opt/lampp/etc/httpd.conf: Syntax > error on line 6 of /opt/lampp/etc/extra/lk.conf: Cannot load > /opt/lampp/modules/mod_dav_svn.so into server: libsvn_repos-1.so.1: > cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > # libsvn_repos-1.so.1 does not exist in lampp/lib - perhaps the lively > lampp need be statically linked or maybe need to pass > > BTW, I do have subversion installed, and libsvn_repos-1.so.1 is in > /usr/lib64. Exporting LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib64 (well not the right > thing anyway because it is in /etc/ld.so.conf) did not make any difference. > > I will also try to just regular install to apache2 using the > install.txt. I think I would not "get" the first section of install.txt > without looking at the automated install. > > regards, > milan > On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Jens Lincke > <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> > wrote: > > Dear List, > > we have now created a zip file with a stripped version of our > WebWerkstatt that contains all the source and instructions needed to > create own Lively wikis: > > http://lively-kernel.org/other/releases/Lively2-rc3.zip > > Could someone test the install procedure and point out the parts we > should explain more. > > Best, > Jens > _______________________________________________ > lively-kernel mailing list > [hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]> > http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel > > _______________________________________________ lively-kernel mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel |
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Hi Fabian:
a few comments inline: On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 4:21 AM, Fabian Bornhofen <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Milan, Well, I have a feeling it may be hard to get one automated installer that works on all (or even a few) Linux distros, except perhaps statically building and shipping a statically linked apache and mod_dav_svn.
If I remove from /etc/lampp/etc/httpd.conf: # Include etc/extra/httpd-dav.conf # Include etc/extra/lk.conf then: ./lampp startapache # as root starts correctly and listening apache threads show on "ps" as user "nobody", I think that is what you were asking about. I misunderstood the automated script and thought it was trying to *start apache as nobody*. On another note, I was (almost) able to install manually by editing configuration files (reading the installation notes and the install script) using the opensuse shipped apache2, and svn. (I am saying "almost" because "svnadmin load" did not load the svndump into the previously created repository - even though it listed "adding path" and "commit", no files showed up in the expected directory. Something I must be doing wrong or misunderstanding there. I will check into that later. regards, milan
_______________________________________________ lively-kernel mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel |
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Hi Milan,
I agree that the Linux installer is still a pain - we chose XAMPP because we wanted the same Apache on all Distros. It looks like that is still not sufficient. A reliable solution could be to have distribution specific installers that install the required packages from package management and then set up Lively. On 8/22/11 2:58 AM, milan zimmermann wrote: > "svnadmin load" did not load the svndump into the > previously created repository - even though it listed "adding path" and > "commit", no files showed up in the expected directory. To check if svnadmin load worked, try to check out the repository: mkdir lively_svn svn co file://PATH_TO_YOUR_REPOSITORY lively_svn and see if the files show up in lively_svn. If mod_dav_svn is configured correctly, it talks directly to the repository and you can see its contents in the web browser. Did that work for you? Regards, Fabian _______________________________________________ lively-kernel mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel |
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Hi Fabian:
Sorry for the delay. FWIW I was able to do a "developer's" localhost install Lively 2 locally with the help of the manual instructions and automated instructions, not using XAMPP but installing the native packages. I can see the repo when browsing to http://localhost/repository/ .There were a few things I did not do in the install, as there was a problem I do not remember yet the basic Dav stuff works: - The section in lk.conf around rewrite rules - httpd-dav.conf For completeness the steps I used are attached, and also the image of running locally. I am able to open an xhtml, change and save it with no obvious issues. Only 2 things I noticed: - after world save, an error quickly flashes but then disappears and everything saves correctly, so this does not seem an issue. - the version viewer, let's say on http://localhost/repository/lively2-mz1.xhtml does not seem to work - says "loading" and that is all. One question - given a localhost install, what is the best way of getting latest Lively2 code if I did care about local changes? [I don't but anyway] Thanks, milan
On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:50 AM, Fabian Bornhofen <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Milan, _______________________________________________ lively-kernel mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel  lively2-localhost.png (38K) Download Attachment lively2-install-opensuse-mz.sh (6K) Download Attachment |
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In reply to this post by Lincke, Jens
Hi Jens, great to hear you are still there,
Informal log of experiences so far:
Set up local apache/svn/webdav on Mac OSX without too much trouble. I used /Library/SVN as my root so that it would be visible in the Finder. The apache dav svn module is present in the distribution (Snow Leopard) but not loaded. LoadModule dav_svn_module libexec/apache2/mod_dav_svn.
Exploring
In both Firefox/Safari Cmd-S and ctrl-S to save a world does not work as advertised. Does in browser code get to override the browsers own key bindings? cmd-S is already "save page".
Starting from the empty world, look through the world menu. Preferences "set user name" the purpose is not obvious. Should it be the same username as my webwerkstatt account name? Is it purely for my own use or is it a source code identifier (like initials in squeak). Later on I discovered that setting it changes the config.js file, so I guess it is expected to match the webwerkstatt account name.
World Menu Items have no tool tips, does the framework support tool tips?
The start up animation, I wonder where that is stored. It is in loading.gif
The "do you want to leave page" question, I would want to remove that for some projects (a world preference) Is there some other uber-preference place, like an ini file for an application. In which case the extent and username could be set there. Perhaps that is what the config.js is for.
From the source, the web page title appears to be set by the filename it is stored under. Another preference? Where to override?
Reading the "command key help"
is that info part of the initial download overhead I wonder? 4000 chars. Connect Help 1318 chars.
Cmd-e does not seem to work if there is a current selection.
Cmd-f "find" requires click focus before it works, am I being picky or what?
Thoughts on Parts Bins
Parts-bins could use some contextual info, each bin could be a world of its own with iconised parts in it. This would allow the bin to sell/describe/advertise/demonstrate its parts. When the bin is being viewed as a bin it could be in a non-live display form.
The biggest thing missing from in all the collaboration systems I have ever used is context, a means to communicate user intent. Why I do not know it is SO easy. Years ago on the apple developers central server, someone developed an application which did absolutely nothing. Its only job was to have an ICON. A folder of icons rested on the desktop named "please take one". People used these icons all over the place to indicate design/user intent, providing context in an informal way. The server "self-organised", organically.
Learning & Observing
Firebug reports that config.js is not found on the server. It appears to be looking for /repository/webwerkstatt/users/null/config.js Which I guess indicates that the username is not set properly somewhere. Ah ha, if I use WorldMenu>Preferences>setUsername then it now looks for /repository/webwerkstatt/users/keith/config.js which I think is an improvement. It still does not exist, and I don't know how to create it. I have not seen any other pages which actually use config.js yet either.
Links open in a new tab, this is not standard web behaviour, how to change that?
Text Field has a menu item - "Convert to annotation" I don't get it, ok so you get a pin which has rollover behaviour. what has this got to do with a text field? Is it not a different part entirely.
An annotation part, could reveal a whole world when rolled over, the annotation-world can contain anything. Ok that is exactly what the pin does, so I still don't get the "convert to annotation" menu item.
Saving a Part to a Parts Bin
I saved a part called Home Link, to the "Worlds" Category, but it has ended up "uncategorised".
it was morning then evening, the end of the first day.
Keith
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In reply to this post by Lincke, Jens
Hi Jens, great to hear you are still there,
Informal log of experiences so far: Set up local apache/svn/webdav on Mac OSX without too much trouble. I used /Library/SVN as my root so that it would be visible in the Finder. The apache dav svn module is present in the distribution (Snow Leopard) but not loaded. LoadModule dav_svn_module libexec/apache2/mod_dav_svn. Exploring In both Firefox/Safari Cmd-S and ctrl-S to save a world does not work as advertised. Does in browser code get to override the browsers own key bindings? cmd-S is already "save page". Starting from the empty world, look through the world menu. Preferences "set user name" the purpose is not obvious. Should it be the same username as my webwerkstatt account name? Is it purely for my own use or is it a source code identifier (like initials in squeak). Later on I discovered that setting it changes the config.js file, so I guess it is expected to match the webwerkstatt account name. World Menu Items have no tool tips, does the framework support tool tips? The start up animation, I wonder where that is stored. It is in loading.gif The "do you want to leave page" question, I would want to remove that for some projects (a world preference) Is there some other uber-preference place, like an ini file for an application. In which case the extent and username could be set there. Perhaps that is what the config.js is for. From the source, the web page title appears to be set by the filename it is stored under. Another preference? Where to override? Reading the "command key help" is that info part of the initial download overhead I wonder? 4000 chars. Connect Help 1318 chars. Cmd-e does not seem to work if there is a current selection. Cmd-f "find" requires click focus before it works, am I being picky or what? Thoughts on Parts Bins Parts-bins could use some contextual info, each bin could be a world of its own with iconised parts in it. This would allow the bin to sell/describe/advertise/demonstrate its parts. When the bin is being viewed as a bin it could be in a non-live display form. The biggest thing missing from in all the collaboration systems I have ever used is context, a means to communicate user intent. Why I do not know it is SO easy. Years ago on the apple developers central server, someone developed an application which did absolutely nothing. Its only job was to have an ICON. A folder of icons rested on the desktop named "please take one". People used these icons all over the place to indicate design/user intent, providing context in an informal way. The server "self-organised", organically. Learning & Observing Firebug reports that config.js is not found on the server. It appears to be looking for /repository/webwerkstatt/users/null/config.js Which I guess indicates that the username is not set properly somewhere. Ah ha, if I use WorldMenu>Preferences>setUsername then it now looks for /repository/webwerkstatt/users/keith/config.js which I think is an improvement. It still does not exist, and I don't know how to create it. I have not seen any other pages which actually use config.js yet either. Links open in a new tab, this is not standard web behaviour, how to change that? Text Field has a menu item - "Convert to annotation" I don't get it, ok so you get a pin which has rollover behaviour. what has this got to do with a text field? Is it not a different part entirely. An annotation part, could reveal a whole world when rolled over, the annotation-world can contain anything. Ok that is exactly what the pin does, so I still don't get the "convert to annotation" menu item. Saving a Part to a Parts Bin I saved a part called Home Link, to the "Worlds" Category, but it has ended up "uncategorised". it was morning then evening, the end of the first day. Keith |
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In reply to this post by keith1y
For most convenient use of source code management tools I tried running lively as local files, without the webserver but it doesnt find anything even the loading.gif (preceding slah missing in url) (TiddlyWiki does this, including the ability to save) Is this an expected use-case?
Keith _______________________________________________ lively-kernel mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel |
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Currently we do not support this.
However, we have a download feature that allows to package data and source code into one XHTML file that can then be run locally. (world menu -> wiki -> download) (Issue: download of big worlds currently crashes Chrome but will work fine for Safari, this is a known Chrome bug) Best, Robert On Oct 25, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Keith P. Hodges wrote: > For most convenient use of source code management tools I tried running lively as local files, without the webserver but it doesnt find anything even the loading.gif (preceding slah missing in url) (TiddlyWiki does this, including the ability to save) Is this an expected use-case? > > Keith > _______________________________________________ > lively-kernel mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel _______________________________________________ lively-kernel mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel |
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In reply to this post by keith1y
Hi, Keith
thanks for your feedback On 25.10.2011, at 21:17, keith1y wrote:
Does it work in chrome or chromium? Yes, we override the key bindings. Can you describe it as an issue? http://lively-kernel.org/trac/newticket
Yes, I used it to explicitly set the users home directory, independent from its login name. We should merge this.
Currently, we don't support tooltips. http://lively-kernel.org/trac/ticket/140
it is under media/loading.gif
The file is called lively/localconfig.js (for webwerkstatt it is http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/lively/localconfig.js) It is installation specific . There we set also the: Config.askBeforeQuit = true;
The config.js in each user's directory does the same on a per user basis. Customizations per page can be set in the initialize method of "local code" of the SCB.
lively.morphic.World >> saveWorldAs ... var titleTag = doc.getElementsByTagName('title')[0];
if (titleTag) titleTag.textContent = url.filename().replace('.xhtml', ''); The command key help is fetch out of the trac wiki. An relict. Ask Dan for everything cmd+e related :-)
No it does not. If it has not focus you can use the fantastic browser find on the page ;-) Nice idea, but it should not be required to so. Currently the "bins" are some structuring categories. Maybe we could have some other Parts that contain PartItems, that can be dragged out. Could you sketch what you mean here?
I use my config.js for customizing lively a bit for me. Its my way of turing on some experimental features on a cross page basis.
We introduced this because we store a lot of user data unsaved in an open lively page. Navigating away will throw away all this. So we became very sensitive when it becomes to closing pages or navigating to other pages.
Ask Lauritz and Fabian. They worked on Annotations. You can move parts after creation in the "more" menu. The new publish dialog should allow all that. Thanks again for all you comments. Maybe we will see some more discussion on this mailing list. I am intending to use it more like a developers list and not so much as purely for announcements, how it was used before... so thank you for pocking with a stick a bit. Best, Jens _______________________________________________ lively-kernel mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel |
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In reply to this post by keith1y
Hi Keith,
We had/have a lot of comments in our worlds that have been just text, like this: LT: Maybe we should... Especially on some documentation worlds these were really annotations and opinions – not part of the documentation or whatever a world originally showed. The annotation with its mouse-over behavior offers a less distracting way to add further information or opinions, while being easily readable through hovering. It also adds the author and a timestamp to alleviate discussions. The "convert to annotation" menu item of text is a convenient way to convert existing "text comments" to instances of the new part...
The current annotation part is only a part and wasn't meant to hold complete worlds. In my opinion, it's easier and more straightforward to just use a world, while using the annotations to add more details, side thoughts or opinion that do not fit the main line of argument or flow of a tutorial...But if you like such a "world-holding"-part, there's definitely space in the PartsBin for it..so feel free to build one :-) Best, Lauritz _______________________________________________ lively-kernel mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel |
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