Load balancing

I am pushing, smoothly but firmly, inside my company to start using
Seaside.  But I still have this question that I cannot answer myself.
If one builds a seaside application that happens to become real
popular, is there a not so comlex way to make a Seaside cluster for
load balancing, sharing user sessions, or even handle fault tolerance?
If not, what would be the proper way to handle a lot of traffic?
Thanks all,
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With Linux and memcached, I think it would be relatively trivial to
set something up. The bottleneck in these cases is usually the
database...

On 7/25/06, Ramiro Diaz Trepat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am pushing, smoothly but firmly, inside my company to start using
> Seaside.  But I still have this question that I cannot answer myself.
> If one builds a seaside application that happens to become real
> popular, is there a not so comlex way to make a Seaside cluster for
> load balancing, sharing user sessions, or even handle fault tolerance?
> If not, what would be the proper way to handle a lot of traffic?
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Congrats! :)

Seems we must to open some lanes yet to spread Seaside/Squeak use in
real applications, but I'm sure we will do it.

In my own case I'm not sure with the persistence. To better says I'm
sure that I don't wants to use relational databases.

Good Luck!


2006/7/25, Ramiro Diaz Trepat <[hidden email]>: _______________________________________________
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Thank you Cees,
   You would somehow use a persistent Seaside session on memcached ?
   Is that what you suggested for sharing users' sessions?
   Or would you force, by other means, http requests coming from the same user session to hit the same Seaside image?
   Does anybody know how did the guys at dabbledb.com solve this?
   Cluster databases can be set up easily with PostgresSQL, so I think that could be solved.
   Thanks again.


   r.





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On 25-Jul-06, at 2:16 PM, Ramiro Diaz Trepat wrote:

> Thank you Cees,
>    You would somehow use a persistent Seaside session on memcached ?
>    Is that what you suggested for sharing users' sessions?
>    Or would you force, by other means, http requests coming from  
> the same user session to hit the same Seaside image?
>    Does anybody know how did the guys at dabbledb.com solve this?

Simple answer: we don't.  This sort of load balancing ends up not  
being an issue for us due to nature of the product -- rather than one  
large central application/DB, we have many relatively small,  
partitionable applications/DBs.  Because of this, "load balancing"  
simply ends up being a matter of how many independent accounts we can  
run on each server.

All of this does mean that we have limitations on the size and number  
of users for an individual account, but these are generally well  
beyond what any of our customers need or want..

Cheers,
======================

Andrew Catton
Smallthought Systems Inc.
email: [hidden email]
AIM: ajcatton


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I'd simply pin a session to the server that originated it, as far as I know
all major load balancing software and hardware supports doing this.  I do it
on my .Net apps to avoid sharing session state through a database, I plan on
doing the same with my seaside apps across a three server farm.

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Cees, you says that is relatively trivial to set up something using
memcached. I've not hear about memcached before, but after your mail
I've read a bit and surfed the site....Seems that a Squeak client must
be developed to full use ? Or I'm wrong?

2006/7/25, Cees De Groot <[hidden email]>:

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We're pretty much of the same school of thought on this one. We are planning
to run multiple headless images on multiple VMs on multiple ESX servers and
use Microsoft's Network Load Balancer in the Class-C network affinity mode
to distribute the incoming requests across the pool. But that's because
we're a Windows shop :) You could probably buy an appliance that does just
that and not have to worry about it at all, other than maintaining your
cluster of servers that actually serve the distributed stream of requests.
Really, this isn't anything specific to Seaside, you just want to keep the
statefulness of the server in mind when picking your affinity mode.

Cheers!

-Boris

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4th floor 595 Howe Street
Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5

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-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ramon Leon
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 2:41 PM
To: 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion.'
Subject: RE: [Seaside] Load balancing

  I'd simply pin a session to the server that originated it, as far as I know
all major load balancing software and hardware supports doing this.  I do it
on my .Net apps to avoid sharing session state through a database, I plan on
doing the same with my seaside apps across a three server farm.

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Totally agree, we're a windows shop as well, though we use a BigIP load
balancer rather than Microsoft NLB.  Boris, have you figured out how you
plan on deploying Squeak on your NT boxes yet?  Are you going to just run
headless, with image minimized so you still have access to it, or install
the image as a service and lose access to the live image from the desktop?
What are you using for the backend, OODB, RDB?

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Thank you very much everyone for your answers.

r.


On 7/25/06, Boris Popov <[hidden email]> wrote: _______________________________________________
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Actually, we use VisualWorks and I was thinking of actually deploying
headless, but haven't given much thought to accessing it remotely. I'd hate
to start putting web exposed management tools in the image, so I'll probably
just have a headful version available when needed for debugging. Accessing
individual images when there's dozens of them may not even make sense at
that point. The "manager" image that manages the multitude of these headless
services would probably run headful together with our main processing
server, and that may be accessible through a heavily guarded RDP session.

But like I said, all this may change once I actually get to it, and it'll
probably be closer towards the end of the year. Limited beta is handled
quite nicely by a single headful image so far ;)

Cheers!

-Boris

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DeepCove Labs Ltd.
4th floor 595 Howe Street
Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5

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-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ramon Leon
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 4:44 PM
To: 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion.'
Subject: RE: [Seaside] Load balancing
Totally agree, we're a windows shop as well, though we use a BigIP load
balancer rather than Microsoft NLB.  Boris, have you figured out how you
plan on deploying Squeak on your NT boxes yet?  Are you going to just run
headless, with image minimized so you still have access to it, or install
the image as a service and lose access to the live image from the desktop?
What are you using for the backend, OODB, RDB?

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