Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

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Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Frank Shearar
The Xtreams loader script seems to have rotted a bit.

In particular, it seems one has to _leave off_ the trailing dash to get
things to load properly.

I recall a recent discussion over the trailing dash hack, and of course
Monticello's seen a burst of activity. Are the two related?

If you have FFI installed, you can ty install Xtreams-Xtras. Then you
hit a Syntax Error because of a selector #block_size.

So you enable the "Allow underscore selectors" preference. Then you hit
another Syntax Error that looks like this, modulo text formatting:

HMAC_CTX_cleanup: ctx
        <cdecl: void 'HMAC_CTX_cleanup' (HMACCTX*Matching number of arguments
expected ->) module: 'libcrypto'>
        ^self externalCallFailed

At this point I'm stumped.

frank

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Re: Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Levente Uzonyi-2
On Thu, 5 May 2011, Frank Shearar wrote:

> The Xtreams loader script seems to have rotted a bit.
>
> In particular, it seems one has to _leave off_ the trailing dash to get
> things to load properly.
>
> I recall a recent discussion over the trailing dash hack, and of course
> Monticello's seen a burst of activity. Are the two related?

These are the side effects of current Installer and MC changes. Use the
Metacello configuration ConfigurationOfXtreams to load Xtreams:

Installer ss
  project: 'MetacelloRepository';
  install: 'ConfigurationOfXtreams'.
ConfigurationOfXtreams project bleedingEdge load
(If you want the stable version, then use #stableVersion instead of
#bleedingEdge.)

>
> If you have FFI installed, you can ty install Xtreams-Xtras. Then you hit a

Metacello will install FFI for you.

> Syntax Error because of a selector #block_size.
>
> So you enable the "Allow underscore selectors" preference. Then you hit
> another Syntax Error that looks like this, modulo text formatting:
>
> HMAC_CTX_cleanup: ctx
> <cdecl: void 'HMAC_CTX_cleanup' (HMACCTX*Matching number of arguments
> expected ->) module: 'libcrypto'>
> ^self externalCallFailed
>
> At this point I'm stumped.

These are some of the symptoms of the lack of the tool support for
underscores in selectors. Use the Metacello configuration which includes a
workaround for these issues.


Levente

>
> frank
>
>

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Re: Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

jarober
This isn't directly related to the topic, but here goes anyway - how do these configurations get created?  By hand?  Is there tool support?

Thanks,


On May 5, 2011, at 8:02 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:

> On Thu, 5 May 2011, Frank Shearar wrote:
>
>> The Xtreams loader script seems to have rotted a bit.
>>
>> In particular, it seems one has to _leave off_ the trailing dash to get things to load properly.
>>
>> I recall a recent discussion over the trailing dash hack, and of course Monticello's seen a burst of activity. Are the two related?
>
> These are the side effects of current Installer and MC changes. Use the Metacello configuration ConfigurationOfXtreams to load Xtreams:
>
> Installer ss
> project: 'MetacelloRepository';
> install: 'ConfigurationOfXtreams'.
> ConfigurationOfXtreams project bleedingEdge load
> (If you want the stable version, then use #stableVersion instead of #bleedingEdge.)
>
>>
>> If you have FFI installed, you can ty install Xtreams-Xtras. Then you hit a
>
> Metacello will install FFI for you.
>
>> Syntax Error because of a selector #block_size.
>>
>> So you enable the "Allow underscore selectors" preference. Then you hit another Syntax Error that looks like this, modulo text formatting:
>>
>> HMAC_CTX_cleanup: ctx
>> <cdecl: void 'HMAC_CTX_cleanup' (HMACCTX*Matching number of arguments expected ->) module: 'libcrypto'>
>> ^self externalCallFailed
>>
>> At this point I'm stumped.
>
> These are some of the symptoms of the lack of the tool support for underscores in selectors. Use the Metacello configuration which includes a workaround for these issues.
>
>
> Levente
>
>>
>> frank
>>
>>
>

James Robertson
http://www.jarober.com
[hidden email]




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Re: Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Frank Shearar
In reply to this post by Levente Uzonyi-2
On 2011/05/05 13:02, Levente Uzonyi wrote:

> On Thu, 5 May 2011, Frank Shearar wrote:
>
>> The Xtreams loader script seems to have rotted a bit.
>>
>> In particular, it seems one has to _leave off_ the trailing dash to
>> get things to load properly.
>>
>> I recall a recent discussion over the trailing dash hack, and of
>> course Monticello's seen a burst of activity. Are the two related?
>
> These are the side effects of current Installer and MC changes. Use the
> Metacello configuration ConfigurationOfXtreams to load Xtreams:
>
> Installer ss
> project: 'MetacelloRepository';
> install: 'ConfigurationOfXtreams'.
> ConfigurationOfXtreams project bleedingEdge load
> (If you want the stable version, then use #stableVersion instead of
> #bleedingEdge.)

Ah, great stuff. Thanks!

Is it possible for some kind soul (Nicolas?) to put this on Xtreams'
wiki page?

frank

>
>>
>> If you have FFI installed, you can ty install Xtreams-Xtras. Then you
>> hit a
>
> Metacello will install FFI for you.
>
>> Syntax Error because of a selector #block_size.
>>
>> So you enable the "Allow underscore selectors" preference. Then you
>> hit another Syntax Error that looks like this, modulo text formatting:
>>
>> HMAC_CTX_cleanup: ctx
>> <cdecl: void 'HMAC_CTX_cleanup' (HMACCTX*Matching number of arguments
>> expected ->) module: 'libcrypto'>
>> ^self externalCallFailed
>>
>> At this point I'm stumped.
>
> These are some of the symptoms of the lack of the tool support for
> underscores in selectors. Use the Metacello configuration which includes
> a workaround for these issues.
>
>
> Levente
>
>>
>> frank
>>
>>
>
>
>


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Personal feelings Re: [squeak-dev] Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Edgar De Cleene
In reply to this post by Levente Uzonyi-2



On 5/5/11 9:02 AM, "Levente Uzonyi" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> These are some of the symptoms of the lack of the tool support for
> underscores in selectors.

We real Squeakers do not use underscores...
It's our view really ?
I email private to Martin some time ago when he did his first port of
Xtreams telling he should avoid underscores for no troubles.

But we are so few that we would have to provide the tools for people coming
from Pharo, VW, etc.

Now you was in Board with Colin, Chris, Bert,Randall,Jecel.
Like know the agenda, where Board feels Squeak go and how we could help.

And for us which have time but not the required skills, be kind and teach.

Edgar



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Re: Personal feelings Re: [squeak-dev] Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Frank Shearar
On 2011/05/05 13:24, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:

>
>
>
> On 5/5/11 9:02 AM, "Levente Uzonyi"<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> These are some of the symptoms of the lack of the tool support for
>> underscores in selectors.
>
> We real Squeakers do not use underscores...
> It's our view really ?
> I email private to Martin some time ago when he did his first port of
> Xtreams telling he should avoid underscores for no troubles.

This fake Squeaker would be more than happy to see the whole underscore
as assignment bite the dust. But that's a deeply personal opinion, and
mainly I want things to Just Work.

Helping fix the lack of tool support would help us all work together,
without ever needing to decide who should with the "underscores or not"
argument.

frank

> But we are so few that we would have to provide the tools for people coming
> from Pharo, VW, etc.
>
> Now you was in Board with Colin, Chris, Bert,Randall,Jecel.
> Like know the agenda, where Board feels Squeak go and how we could help.
>
> And for us which have time but not the required skills, be kind and teach.
>
> Edgar

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Re: Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Chris Muller-3
In reply to this post by Frank Shearar
I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but when I read:

> Is it possible for some kind soul (Nicolas?) to put this on Xtreams' wiki
> page?

I feel compelled to raise my hand and say, "Have you heard of SqueakMap?"  :)

Xtreams is currently unregistered on SM.  Levente provided appropriate
scripts for both SM release; "1.0" and "head"...   (If FFI is a
prerequisite then the script should first check for the presence of
FFI and, if not, load the appropriate version of that first too).

Thanks,
  Chris


On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Frank Shearar
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2011/05/05 13:02, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 5 May 2011, Frank Shearar wrote:
>>
>>> The Xtreams loader script seems to have rotted a bit.
>>>
>>> In particular, it seems one has to _leave off_ the trailing dash to
>>> get things to load properly.
>>>
>>> I recall a recent discussion over the trailing dash hack, and of
>>> course Monticello's seen a burst of activity. Are the two related?
>>
>> These are the side effects of current Installer and MC changes. Use the
>> Metacello configuration ConfigurationOfXtreams to load Xtreams:
>>
>> Installer ss
>> project: 'MetacelloRepository';
>> install: 'ConfigurationOfXtreams'.
>> ConfigurationOfXtreams project bleedingEdge load
>> (If you want the stable version, then use #stableVersion instead of
>> #bleedingEdge.)
>
> Ah, great stuff. Thanks!
>
> Is it possible for some kind soul (Nicolas?) to put this on Xtreams' wiki
> page?
>
> frank
>>
>>>
>>> If you have FFI installed, you can ty install Xtreams-Xtras. Then you
>>> hit a
>>
>> Metacello will install FFI for you.
>>
>>> Syntax Error because of a selector #block_size.
>>>
>>> So you enable the "Allow underscore selectors" preference. Then you
>>> hit another Syntax Error that looks like this, modulo text formatting:
>>>
>>> HMAC_CTX_cleanup: ctx
>>> <cdecl: void 'HMAC_CTX_cleanup' (HMACCTX*Matching number of arguments
>>> expected ->) module: 'libcrypto'>
>>> ^self externalCallFailed
>>>
>>> At this point I'm stumped.
>>
>> These are some of the symptoms of the lack of the tool support for
>> underscores in selectors. Use the Metacello configuration which includes
>> a workaround for these issues.
>>
>>
>> Levente
>>
>>>
>>> frank
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

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Re: Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by jarober
James Robertson wrote:
> This isn't directly related to the topic, but here goes anyway - how do these configurations get created?  By hand?  Is there tool support?
>
> Thanks,
>
>  
A couple of days ago I just happened to come across the PBE draft
chapters for Metacello & Monticello
On the right of screen at http://pharobyexample.org/.

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Re: Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Miguel Cobá
In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3
El jue, 05-05-2011 a las 09:53 -0500, Chris Muller escribió:
> (If FFI is a
> prerequisite then the script should first check for the presence of
> FFI and, if not, load the appropriate version of that first too).
>

I raise my hand too and ask why should the script to "check" for the
presence of some other classs/package? Suppose there are packages A, B
and C, maintained by three different persons.

A has no dependencies, so its script (scriptA) just install its mcz
files.

B depends on A and a script for be "checking" that A exists before
installing B. It can have a few implementations:
a) uses the scriptA to install A
b) installs the mcz from B that think it needs, but leave without
install other mcz that doesn't need right now
c) copies the scriptA into scriptB (copy & paste nightmare when scriptA
is upgraded)

Then comes C maintainer and doesn't know about scriptB it only know that
it needs A and B in order to work. He has a hell lot of options:

1) scriptC install what it thinks it needs from A and from B, leavin
some mcz out.
2) scriptC uses scriptA and uses what it needs from B (because B is a
direct dependeny and know what really needs and what not. Not the same
for A that he doesn't really know and to not fail better install
everything)
3) scriptC copies scriptA and scriptB into scriptC (again copy&paste
hell)

Now you have 3*3 = 9 ways to install C. What a mess.

Metacello instead, permits a configuration to "declares" what it need
"directly" and then it goes and "fulfill" the requiremets for it.

So with metacello. supposing that metacelloConfigA exists, then
maintainer of B can define metacelloConfigB that depends on A.
Lastly, maintainer of C creates metacelloConfigC and "only" depends on
metacelloConfigB and *don't* care about what B depends on. It let B to
decide and metacello to fulfill.

So I think that this whole SqueakMap approach is not going to scale well
in the long term when relying on custom-made scripts without
standarization or order.

Regards
--
Miguel Cobá
http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx




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Re: Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Chris Muller-3
There are so many holes in what you're saying, but I'm out of gas.  Sigh..

> A has no dependencies, so its script (scriptA) just install its mcz
> files.

Right.

> B depends on A and a script for be "checking" that A exists before
> installing B. It can have a few implementations:
> a) uses the scriptA to install A
> b) installs the mcz from B that think it needs, but leave without
> install other mcz that doesn't need right now
> c) copies the scriptA into scriptB (copy & paste nightmare when scriptA
> is upgraded)

(a) is the answer, of course.

> Then comes C maintainer and doesn't know about scriptB it only know that
> it needs A and B in order to work. He has a hell lot of options:
>
> 1) scriptC install what it thinks it needs from A and from B, leavin
> some mcz out.
> 2) scriptC uses scriptA and uses what it needs from B (because B is a
> direct dependeny and know what really needs and what not. Not the same
> for A that he doesn't really know and to not fail better install
> everything)
> 3) scriptC copies scriptA and scriptB into scriptC (again copy&paste
> hell)
>
> Now you have 3*3 = 9 ways to install C. What a mess.

The only thing that's a mess is how you're trying make something so
simple into something so complicated.

  A exists ifFalse: [ run Script A ].
  B exists ifFalse: [ run Script B ].
  load elements of C.

Done.

> Metacello instead, permits a configuration to "declares" what it need
> "directly" and then it goes and "fulfill" the requiremets for it.
>
> So with metacello. supposing that metacelloConfigA exists, then
> maintainer of B can define metacelloConfigB that depends on A.
> Lastly, maintainer of C creates metacelloConfigC and "only" depends on
> metacelloConfigB and *don't* care about what B depends on. It let B to
> decide and metacello to fulfill.

Whatever..  Magma is a prime example of your A, B, C.  Magma depends
on MaClientServer depends on MaBase.

> So I think that this whole SqueakMap approach is not going to scale well
> in the long term when relying on custom-made scripts without
> standarization or order.

"Standardization" or "order", huh?

Putting everything into one SqueakSource project; now _there's_
something that is not going to scale well..

Bye..

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Re: Personal feelings Re: [squeak-dev] Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Göran Krampe
In reply to this post by Frank Shearar
On 05/05/2011 02:56 PM, Frank Shearar wrote:

> On 2011/05/05 13:24, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/5/11 9:02 AM, "Levente Uzonyi"<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> These are some of the symptoms of the lack of the tool support for
>>> underscores in selectors.
>>
>> We real Squeakers do not use underscores...
>> It's our view really ?
>> I email private to Martin some time ago when he did his first port of
>> Xtreams telling he should avoid underscores for no troubles.
>
> This fake Squeaker would be more than happy to see the whole underscore
> as assignment bite the dust. But that's a deeply personal opinion, and

I don't think this was about *assignment* but rather (if you read again)
about underscores in *selectors*.

regards, Göran


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Re: Personal feelings Re: [squeak-dev] Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Levente Uzonyi-2
In reply to this post by Frank Shearar
On Thu, 5 May 2011, Frank Shearar wrote:

> On 2011/05/05 13:24, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/5/11 9:02 AM, "Levente Uzonyi"<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> These are some of the symptoms of the lack of the tool support for
>>> underscores in selectors.
>>
>> We real Squeakers do not use underscores...
>> It's our view really ?
>> I email private to Martin some time ago when he did his first port of
>> Xtreams telling he should avoid underscores for no troubles.
>
> This fake Squeaker would be more than happy to see the whole underscore as
> assignment bite the dust. But that's a deeply personal opinion, and mainly I
> want things to Just Work.

+1

>
> Helping fix the lack of tool support would help us all work together, without
> ever needing to decide who should with the "underscores or not" argument.

+1


Levente

>
> frank
>
>> But we are so few that we would have to provide the tools for people coming
>> from Pharo, VW, etc.
>>
>> Now you was in Board with Colin, Chris, Bert,Randall,Jecel.
>> Like know the agenda, where Board feels Squeak go and how we could help.
>>
>> And for us which have time but not the required skills, be kind and teach.
>>
>> Edgar
>
>

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Re: Personal feelings Re: [squeak-dev] Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Frank Shearar
In reply to this post by Göran Krampe
On 2011/05/05 23:09, Göran Krampe wrote:

> On 05/05/2011 02:56 PM, Frank Shearar wrote:
>> On 2011/05/05 13:24, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/5/11 9:02 AM, "Levente Uzonyi"<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> These are some of the symptoms of the lack of the tool support for
>>>> underscores in selectors.
>>>
>>> We real Squeakers do not use underscores...
>>> It's our view really ?
>>> I email private to Martin some time ago when he did his first port of
>>> Xtreams telling he should avoid underscores for no troubles.
>>
>> This fake Squeaker would be more than happy to see the whole underscore
>> as assignment bite the dust. But that's a deeply personal opinion, and
>
> I don't think this was about *assignment* but rather (if you read again)
> about underscores in *selectors*.

Which we have trouble supporting because "a_b" parses as "a is assigned
the value of b", not so?

frank

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Re: Personal feelings Re: [squeak-dev] Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Göran Krampe
On 05/06/2011 07:48 AM, Frank Shearar wrote:
> On 2011/05/05 23:09, Göran Krampe wrote:
>> I don't think this was about *assignment* but rather (if you read again)
>> about underscores in *selectors*.
>
> Which we have trouble supporting because "a_b" parses as "a is assigned
> the value of b", not so?

Aha, ok, never mind. I almost did not post because I felt I was missing
some info - and yep, I was. :)

regards, Göran

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Re: Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Nicolas Cellier
In reply to this post by Frank Shearar
2011/5/5 Frank Shearar <[hidden email]>:

> On 2011/05/05 13:02, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 5 May 2011, Frank Shearar wrote:
>>
>>> The Xtreams loader script seems to have rotted a bit.
>>>
>>> In particular, it seems one has to _leave off_ the trailing dash to
>>> get things to load properly.
>>>
>>> I recall a recent discussion over the trailing dash hack, and of
>>> course Monticello's seen a burst of activity. Are the two related?
>>
>> These are the side effects of current Installer and MC changes. Use the
>> Metacello configuration ConfigurationOfXtreams to load Xtreams:
>>
>> Installer ss
>> project: 'MetacelloRepository';
>> install: 'ConfigurationOfXtreams'.
>> ConfigurationOfXtreams project bleedingEdge load
>> (If you want the stable version, then use #stableVersion instead of
>> #bleedingEdge.)
>
> Ah, great stuff. Thanks!
>
> Is it possible for some kind soul (Nicolas?) to put this on Xtreams' wiki
> page?
>
> frank

Done. Hope it works because I did not test.
IMO Pharo incantation should be updated also with the preferred Metacello way.

Nicolas

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Re: Loading Xtreams-Xtra into trunk broken

Frank Shearar
On 2011/05/06 11:42, Nicolas Cellier wrote:

> 2011/5/5 Frank Shearar<[hidden email]>:
>> On 2011/05/05 13:02, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 5 May 2011, Frank Shearar wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Xtreams loader script seems to have rotted a bit.
>>>>
>>>> In particular, it seems one has to _leave off_ the trailing dash to
>>>> get things to load properly.
>>>>
>>>> I recall a recent discussion over the trailing dash hack, and of
>>>> course Monticello's seen a burst of activity. Are the two related?
>>>
>>> These are the side effects of current Installer and MC changes. Use the
>>> Metacello configuration ConfigurationOfXtreams to load Xtreams:
>>>
>>> Installer ss
>>> project: 'MetacelloRepository';
>>> install: 'ConfigurationOfXtreams'.
>>> ConfigurationOfXtreams project bleedingEdge load
>>> (If you want the stable version, then use #stableVersion instead of
>>> #bleedingEdge.)
>>
>> Ah, great stuff. Thanks!
>>
>> Is it possible for some kind soul (Nicolas?) to put this on Xtreams' wiki
>> page?
>>
>> frank
>
> Done. Hope it works because I did not test.
> IMO Pharo incantation should be updated also with the preferred Metacello way.

It should work - the above incantation is what I tried before saying
thanks :)

And thanks!

frank