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MSVDM glitch

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Jochen Riekhof-7

MSVDM glitch

Hi...

for some time I use the MSVDM (Microsoft Virtual Desktop Manager) to get my
many open windows manageable. So far it worked with each and every
application I use except unfortunately Dolphin ST. The problems are all with
Shared Desktop disabled (so that each Taskbar item resides on only one
Virtual desktop). The behavior is that the main Dolphin window is shown on
multiple desktops taskbars and (much more severe) it always reduces its size
to the absolute minimum (just the Title is visible). MSVDM is downloadable
here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx

Dolphin is an excellent candidate to be run inside MSVDM as it opens
multiple windows itself which can get a nuisance if working simultaneously
with other apps at the same time. I know this is nothing one can really
claim a bug but maybe there is an easy workaround to fix this?

Ciao

...Jochen

steve geringer-4

Re: MSVDM glitch - Also with DeskWin

In a related bug...I use something called DeskWin.

The deployed app(D3) and Togo app(D5) simply crash if you
change desktops.

In the development environment, the main Dolphin window wants to display
itself on every desktop.

Is there a fix for this?

Thanks,
Steve

Jochen Riekhof wrote:

> Hi...
>
> for some time I use the MSVDM (Microsoft Virtual Desktop Manager) to get my
> many open windows manageable. So far it worked with each and every
> application I use except unfortunately Dolphin ST. The problems are all with
> Shared Desktop disabled (so that each Taskbar item resides on only one
> Virtual desktop). The behavior is that the main Dolphin window is shown on
> multiple desktops taskbars and (much more severe) it always reduces its size
> to the absolute minimum (just the Title is visible). MSVDM is downloadable
> here:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
>
> Dolphin is an excellent candidate to be run inside MSVDM as it opens
> multiple windows itself which can get a nuisance if working simultaneously
> with other apps at the same time. I know this is nothing one can really
> claim a bug but maybe there is an easy workaround to fix this?
>
>
> Ciao
>
> ...Jochen
>
>

Esteban A. Maringolo-3

Re: MSVDM glitch - Also with DeskWin

Hi all,

steve geringer escribió:

> In a related bug...I use something called DeskWin.

> The deployed app(D3) and Togo app(D5) simply crash if you
> change desktops.
>
> In the development environment, the main Dolphin window wants to display
> itself on every desktop.
>
> Is there a fix for this?

I have the same problems on nVidia dektop utilities (I can't
remember the name of the app) and with AltDesk.

Best regards,

--
Esteban.

Esteban A. Maringolo-3

Re: MSVDM glitch - Also with DeskWin

Esteban A. Maringolo escribió:
> Hi all,
> steve geringer escribió:
>> In a related bug...I use something called DeskWin.
>> The deployed app(D3) and Togo app(D5) simply crash if you
>> change desktops.
>> In the development environment, the main Dolphin window wants to
>> display itself on every desktop.

> I have the same problems on nVidia dektop utilities (I can't remember
> the name of the app) and with AltDesk.

I've found old posts about this:
<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.smalltalk.dolphin/browse_thread/thread/d74bf97ed7376b6/ab1a23e8e9137a00>
<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.smalltalk.dolphin/browse_thread/thread/aeb38463a44bd534/10dd98453f7e43d0>

Regards,

--
Esteban

Jochen Riekhof-7

Re: MSVDM glitch

In reply to this post by Jochen Riekhof-7

Followup:

Today I tried to use one of my small utility apps written in dolphin using
MSVDM and it just crashes away with no traces on any desktop switch. I
consider this very bad behavior as it may also hit potential customers using
my apps. When I get some time I will investigate a bit.

Ciao

...Jochen

Don Rylander-3

Re: MSVDM glitch

Jochen,
"Jochen Riekhof" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> Followup:
>
> Today I tried to use one of my small utility apps written in dolphin using
> MSVDM and it just crashes away with no traces on any desktop switch. I
> consider this very bad behavior as it may also hit potential customers
> using my apps. When I get some time I will investigate a bit.

Out of curiosity, does it actually crash (with a crash dump), or does it
just shut down when you switch away from its virtual desktop?

Don

>
> Ciao
>
> ...Jochen
>

Jochen Riekhof-7

Re: MSVDM glitch

Hi Don...

as I said, with no traces ;-). There is a mode called "Shared Desktops"
which does NOT hide Taskbar entries of programs minimized in this virtual
desktop. While this does not reduce the Taskbar mess when many apps/window
are open, it lets Dolphin-deployed apps run normally. For the latter reason
I guess it might have to do with the hiding of the taskbar entries.

Ciao

...Jochen

"Don Rylander" <[hidden email]> wrote in
message news:[hidden email]...

> Jochen,
> "Jochen Riekhof" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
> news:[hidden email]...
>> Followup:
>>
>> Today I tried to use one of my small utility apps written in dolphin
>> using MSVDM and it just crashes away with no traces on any desktop
>> switch. I consider this very bad behavior as it may also hit potential
>> customers using my apps. When I get some time I will investigate a bit.
>
> Out of curiosity, does it actually crash (with a crash dump), or does it
> just shut down when you switch away from its virtual desktop?
>
> Don
>
>>
>> Ciao
>>
>> ...Jochen
>>
>
>

Esteban A. Maringolo-3

Re: MSVDM glitch

In reply to this post by Don Rylander-3

Don Rylander escribió:

>>Today I tried to use one of my small utility apps written in dolphin using
>>MSVDM and it just crashes away with no traces on any desktop switch. I
>>consider this very bad behavior as it may also hit potential customers
>>using my apps. When I get some time I will investigate a bit.

> Out of curiosity, does it actually crash (with a crash dump), or does it
> just shut down when you switch away from its virtual desktop?

It just disappear.

It is, it goes to the same place where the characters goes when you
press backspace :-D

Regards,

--
Esteban.

Andy Bower-3

Re: MSVDM glitch

In reply to this post by Jochen Riekhof-7

Jochen,

> as I said, with no traces ;-). There is a mode called "Shared
> Desktops" which does NOT hide Taskbar entries of programs minimized
> in this virtual desktop. While this does not reduce the Taskbar mess
> when many apps/window are open, it lets Dolphin-deployed apps run
> normally. For the latter reason I guess it might have to do with the
> hiding of the taskbar entries.

This sounds a bit like it may be something to do with
InputState>>keepAlive not detecting any open windows (or something
similar anyway).

I've recorded two issues #2087 and #2088 since the appearence of the
Dolphin main window across several desktops (that you reported
originally) may be a different problem.

I'll try to take a look at this in the next couple of days.

Best regards,

--
Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com

Jochen Riekhof-8

Re: MSVDM glitch

Hi Andy...

yeah, this would be really cool!

Ciao

...Jochen

Jochen Riekhof-6

Re: MSVDM glitch

In reply to this post by Andy Bower-3

Hi Andy...

did you have any chance to look into this in the meantime?

Ciao

...Jochen

Andy Bower schrieb:

> Jochen,
>
>> as I said, with no traces ;-). There is a mode called "Shared
>> Desktops" which does NOT hide Taskbar entries of programs minimized
>> in this virtual desktop. While this does not reduce the Taskbar mess
>> when many apps/window are open, it lets Dolphin-deployed apps run
>> normally. For the latter reason I guess it might have to do with the
>> hiding of the taskbar entries.
>
> This sounds a bit like it may be something to do with
> InputState>>keepAlive not detecting any open windows (or something
> similar anyway).
>
> I've recorded two issues #2087 and #2088 since the appearence of the
> Dolphin main window across several desktops (that you reported
> originally) may be a different problem.
>
> I'll try to take a look at this in the next couple of days.
>
> Best regards,
>

Esteban A. Maringolo-3

Re: MSVDM glitch

Jochen Riekhof escribió:
> Hi Andy...
>
> did you have any chance to look into this in the meantime?
>

I second this question, the problem persist also with nVidia Desktop
Management and with AltDesk. In Runtime, the window silently dissapears.

Regards,

--
Esteban.

Blair McGlashan-4

Re: MSVDM glitch

In reply to this post by Jochen Riekhof-6

"Jochen Riekhof" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> Hi Andy...
>
> did you have any chance to look into this in the meantime?
>
> Ciao
>
> ...Jochen
>

Well regarding the deployed apps disappearing, this is because of the
default behaviouir of shutting down the application when no windows are
visible. This is convenient for simple apps/demos since it absolves you of
the responsibility of explicit app shutdown, however it is not recommended
that you do this. You should override #keepAlive to prevent this mechanism
shutting down your application (just do nothing in the override), and then
explicitly shutdown the app when your main window is closed. If you have
more than one main window, then you will have to work out a way to determine
when your app is closing, and send #exit to the SessionManager at the right
time. We have made this easier to do and modified all the samples for the
next minor release to discourage the use of the "shutdown when no windows
are visible" mechanism, but it is maintained as the default for the moment
for reasons of backwards compatibility.

Regarding the IDE launcher window following you around, this is essentially
the same issue. The IDE has a "safety" feature built-in such that if you
accidentally close or hide all the application windows, then it will
"helpfully" pop up a new launcher window so that you don't lose your work.
Since VDMs work be either hiding the application windows and/or moving them
off screen, this could trigger when used in a mode that doesn't share the
taskbar (the icon on the taskbar is considered a visible window).

You could disable this behaviour if you want to by commenting out the body
of the DevelopmentSessionManager>>keepAlive, but the Panic command will no
longer work.

Regards

Blair

Jochen Riekhof-7

Re: MSVDM glitch

Hi Blair...

thank you a lot for this info! This gives some great hints!

Ciao

...Jochen

"Blair McGlashan" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

> "Jochen Riekhof" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
> news:[hidden email]...
>> Hi Andy...
>>
>> did you have any chance to look into this in the meantime?
>>
>> Ciao
>>
>> ...Jochen
>>
>
> Well regarding the deployed apps disappearing, this is because of the
> default behaviouir of shutting down the application when no windows are
> visible. This is convenient for simple apps/demos since it absolves you of
> the responsibility of explicit app shutdown, however it is not recommended
> that you do this. You should override #keepAlive to prevent this mechanism
> shutting down your application (just do nothing in the override), and then
> explicitly shutdown the app when your main window is closed. If you have
> more than one main window, then you will have to work out a way to
> determine when your app is closing, and send #exit to the SessionManager
> at the right time. We have made this easier to do and modified all the
> samples for the next minor release to discourage the use of the "shutdown
> when no windows are visible" mechanism, but it is maintained as the
> default for the moment for reasons of backwards compatibility.
>
> Regarding the IDE launcher window following you around, this is
> essentially the same issue. The IDE has a "safety" feature built-in such
> that if you accidentally close or hide all the application windows, then
> it will "helpfully" pop up a new launcher window so that you don't lose
> your work. Since VDMs work be either hiding the application windows and/or
> moving them off screen, this could trigger when used in a mode that
> doesn't share the taskbar (the icon on the taskbar is considered a visible
> window).
>
> You could disable this behaviour if you want to by commenting out the body
> of the DevelopmentSessionManager>>keepAlive, but the Panic command will no
> longer work.
>
> Regards
>
> Blair
>

Jochen Riekhof-6

Re: MSVDM glitch

In reply to this post by Blair McGlashan-4

Hi Blair...

overriding keepAlive in my RuntimeSessionManager subclass works great.
For the DevelopmentSessionManager, I added an instance var isPanic with
accessors and set it to false. When the SmalltalkSystem>>panic is
executed I call
SessionManager current isPanic: true.
in DevelopmentSessionmanager>>keepAlive I check this flag and only
perform when isPanic is true. I also ensure: here that isPanic is reset
to false at the end.

This seems to work just fine so far. The ability to reopen a
SmalltalkSystemShell when all windows are gone is still disabled of
course (and I can see no easy workaround for this) but I never needed
this as long as I used Dolphin. Is there a possibility to add similar
functionality to the base image, maybe switchable with a configuation
flag to keep possibility for the present "safe" mode?

I have to say that the ability to assign an undisturbed private "Dolphin
desktop" is extremely appealing as all windows are now nicely accessible
in the taskbar without the need to browse the grouping popup all the
time :-)

Ciao

...Jochen