Magritte book

I am reading Lukas book Magritte – Meta-Described Web Application
Development.

I have tried to type in the code and run it.
But it doesn't run. :(

DateDescription selector: #birthday label: 'Birthday')
        between: (Date year: 1900) and: Date today;
        yourself.

This is in the latest squeak-dev image.

It complains that DateDescription doesn't exist and offers
MADateDescription instead. Okay.

But then #year: isn't a method in Date either. :(

It would be nice if Pier/Magritte/Seaside had current documentation.

Would it be possible, reasonable to put up an OO.org doc or some such of
the original book so that it could be kept up to date by the community?

I know this is asking a lot. But I also hate to ask Lukas to do all of
the work by himself.

I don't know exactly what would be the best process for community
stewardship over material like this. But it would be nice if we had an
excellent place to start. And I think this book is. It would be nice if
it was current with the current favored images.

If this isn't doable for whatever reason, I certainly respect Lukas'
wishes concerning his material and authorship. Next best thing until a
different book or such material came out would be an excellent errata
page for this book.

Lets make choosing Squeak/Seaside/Pier as easy as possible.

Any way, some thoughts for consideration.

Thanks.

Jimmie



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I think that an "errata" or "comments" page is an excellent idea. How about a wiki page on http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/smallwiki/pier/ and a hint on
http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/smallwiki/pier/pierfaq/ ? You can use anonymous/xopu to login.

Cheers

Matthias





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> DateDescription selector: #birthday label: 'Birthday')
> between: (Date year: 1900) and: Date today;
> yourself.

Mhh, yes there are several problems with this code:

        MADateDescription new
                selectorAccessor: #birthday;
                label: 'Birthday';
                min: (Date year: 1900 day: 1);
                max: Date today;
                yourself

> Would it be possible, reasonable to put up an OO.org doc or some  
> such of
> the original book so that it could be kept up to date by the  
> community?

What is this? The link doesn't work.

> I know this is asking a lot. But I also hate to ask Lukas to do all of
> the work by himself.

I also thought about the need of updating the documentation, however  
I have to check with the University in what form this is possible. I  
will do that when I am back from ESUG. Ping me in case I forget.

The sources are all in LaTeX. The documentation in the back is  
automatically built from the class and method comments, but I don't  
know if this is useful at all?

> Yes, you are technically correct. It is not a book technically. I
> thought it was his thesis, but missed inside where it said so.

It tells so on the front page, but it is in German because of a  
strange requirement of the University.

There is also a paper that is more recent (but less practical):

        http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/cgi-bin/scgbib.cgi/abstract=yes?Reng07a

I will present it at MODELS 2007 in Nashville. In case anybody feels  
like chatting about Magritte, Pier, Seaside, Smalltalk or programming  
in general don't hesitate to send a mail.

Cheers,
Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


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Lukas Renggli wrote:
My apologies. It wasn't meant to be a link but rather to an
OpenOffice.org word processing document. Which then would be
http://www.openoffice.org but you probably already know that when I put
it into proper context.

>> I know this is asking a lot. But I also hate to ask Lukas to do all of
>> the work by himself.
>
> I also thought about the need of updating the documentation, however  
> I have to check with the University in what form this is possible. I  
> will do that when I am back from ESUG. Ping me in case I forget.

Super. That would be great. You put a lot of work into that. And I think
it forms an excellent basis of understanding and philosophy behind Pier
and its design.

I would love see the Seaside/Pier community grow and prosper. Good docs
can help tremendously. Poor docs can definitely hurt.

> The sources are all in LaTeX. The documentation in the back is  
> automatically built from the class and method comments, but I don't  
> know if this is useful at all?

Someone here may know how to use LaTeX sources. If not then we can
attempt any number of things to extract the textual sources.

In fact I just did a "select all" in Acrobat and copied the contents to
a OO.org doc and it isn't perfect but it is very usable. It would
require some reformatting and the images imported into the document. But
it is definitely workable.

What we would need are the images and licensing permissions from the
copyright holders. So if you are wanting to proceed on something like
this. You will need to release it under an appropriate license or your
choosing. And if the University has copyrights also, they would also.

You would then probably want to rename this document to something
appropriate and then clean up some of the "thesis" type text inside and
giving proper attribution to your original thesis as the foundation and
origination of this document. Possibly, even providing a url to your
original thesis.

>> Yes, you are technically correct. It is not a book technically. I
>> thought it was his thesis, but missed inside where it said so.
>
> It tells so on the front page, but it is in German because of a  
> strange requirement of the University.

Yes. That scared me at first. I just printed out the document and then
the Title page is in German. Uh oh. :)

But then I turned the page. I could read that. ;)

We USAmericans are a wimpy monolingual bunch. :)

But in your Acknowledgments you also state this:
Thanks for writing with me the two papers, [Duca05] and [Reng06b], which
were an important point of reference for this master thesis.

Which is what I missed.

> There is also a paper that is more recent (but less practical):
>
> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/cgi-bin/scgbib.cgi/abstract=yes?Reng07a
>
> I will present it at MODELS 2007 in Nashville. In case anybody feels  
> like chatting about Magritte, Pier, Seaside, Smalltalk or programming  
> in general don't hesitate to send a mail.

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely read it also.

Anyway, enjoy ESUG.

Jimmie

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Hi Lukas,

interesting paper, I did not notice that I can add attributes to a
pier page through the web. I'll try that and read up on the user
extensibility of Magritte. There is one more thing:

"As expected SmallWiki performed better with a cumulated search time
of 2456 ms. In Pier
the search took 8190 ms, so the meta-driven search is about 30% slower than
the hard coded one."

I guess you mean that the search in SmallWiki takes only 30% of the
time it takes in Pier?


Cheers

Matthias

PS: If you want to release the LaTeX source for your thesis, I could
try the automated conversion to html. From there one would go to wiki
markup, right? :-)

> There is also a paper that is more recent (but less practical):
>
>         http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/cgi-bin/scgbib.cgi/abstract=yes?Reng07a
>
> I will present it at MODELS 2007 in Nashville. In case anybody feels
> like chatting about Magritte, Pier, Seaside, Smalltalk or programming
> in general don't hesitate to send a mail.

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On Aug 24, 2007, at 12:57 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
>
> Someone here may know how to use LaTeX sources. If not then we can
> attempt any number of things to extract the textual sources.
>

Well, we can certainly use LaTeX and then we could post the PDF, and  
if some wanted a more "word-processy" interface without a bunch of  
manual work, we could import it into LyX (www.lyx.org), which works  
quite well.

My .02 cents.

- Brian



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>> I know this is asking a lot. But I also hate to ask Lukas to do  
>> all of the work by himself.
>
> I also thought about the need of updating the documentation,  
> however I have to check with the University in what form this is  
> possible. I will do that when I am back from ESUG. Ping me in case  
> I forget.

I finally checked with the university. There is no problem to open-
source the thesis, as I own the full copyright and can do with it  
whatever I want.

> The sources are all in LaTeX. The documentation in the back is
> automatically built from the class and method comments, but I don't  
> know if this is useful at all?

Would it make sense to release it under the Creative Commons  
Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike [1] license?

Lukas

[1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


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Hi Lukas,

Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike would be fine
with me. AFAIK, Pier is under MIT style license, so the documentation
in the back would have to mention that as well. Having current class
and method comments as part of the book is very valuable IMHO.

heers

Matthias

On 9/20/07, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote:
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