Make things easy for newcomers!! (Was: Re: OSProcess and SqueakMap)

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Make things easy for newcomers!! (Was: Re: OSProcess and SqueakMap)

Igor Stasenko
A new blood in the herd! Wellcome.

As for the rest of gray-beards, i wonder, how long it to make a
debugger window to pop-up with
one additional button, named 'file a but report' so then any newcomers
will send a proper stack trace instead
of a screenshot and implementation of DNU method?

Ross, do not take it as an insult to you. :)

2009/9/7 Ross Boylan <[hidden email]>:

> On Mon, 2009-09-07 at 19:12 -0400, David T. Lewis wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 01:50:14PM -0700, Ross Boylan wrote:
>> > On Mon, 2009-09-07 at 16:00 -0400, David T. Lewis wrote:
>> > > On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 12:15:28PM -0700, Ross Boylan wrote:
>> > > > I want to run the magma tester, which is much easier if OS Process is
>> > > > around.  It doesn't seem to be in the image or Monticello, and I think
>> > > > it is only available from SqueakMap.
>> > >
>> > > OSProcess and CommandShell (formerly part of OSProcess until I split it)
>> > > are both on SqueakSource. For Pharo, I recommend that you load the latest
>> > > versions from SqueakSource rather than from SqueakMap (I made a fix just
>> > > yesterday that is important for Pharo users). Be sure to get the unit tests
>> > > also, they are a good source of examples.
>> > OSProcess loaded fine, but CommandShell says PluggableTextController and
>> > PluggableTextView.
>>
>> Those are the MVC classes for CommandShell (which works for both Morphic
>> and MVC). MVC has been removed from Pharo. Don't worry about these error
>> messages; the rest should load fine.
> I proceeded past the error above and another warning that MVC was not
> loaded.  I've attached details on it.  The save to file doesn't seem to
> have much info, so I also put in a screen shot.  The shot also show the
> progress bar at the very start.
>>
>> > Do I need the OSProcess plugin?
>>
>> Yes. It is also good (but not required) to have AioPlugin and XDisplayControlPlugin.
>> All three are usually included in Unix VMs, and OSProcessPlugin is probably included
>> if you are using OS X. For Windows you would need to build it yourself.
> I'm on linux.  Am I correct that the plugin source is only useful if you
> then run VMMaker to make a VM--i.e., bringing it in to an image will not
> get you a working plugin?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
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>
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--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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Re: Make things easy for newcomers!! (Was: Re: OSProcess and SqueakMap)

Ross Boylan
On Mon, 2009-09-07 at 17:50 -0700, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> A new blood in the herd! Wellcome.
Thank you.  I've used smalltalk and squeak for many years, albeit
intermittently, BTW.
>
> As for the rest of gray-beards, i wonder, how long it to make a
> debugger window to pop-up with
> one additional button, named 'file a but report' so then any newcomers
> will send a proper stack trace instead
> of a screenshot and implementation of DNU method?
I thought the fileout option from the debugger would file out the stack.
There is also the mail bug report, but I was trying to keep in my main
email client (among other things, it would preserve the thread).

I'm just trying to get a working image with magma.  "Working" includes
being able to pass the magma test suite.  I thought to try Pharo after
running into trouble with 3.10.  It's frustrating that after 2 days I
don't have it working.  And I was thinking of trying Seaside with Magma
for something at work.

I think a newbie would have given up much earlier, though it's a little
hard to imagine a newbie wanting an object database...

This seems as good a place as any to report some other glitches, which
mostly strike me as documentation issues.  This is in addition to the
problem getting OSProcess going reported earlier in this thread, the
problem locating the sources file (which may be a buglet) and my VM
issues in other threads.

All of this is on Linux, and refers to
http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download.  I'm guessing life is
easier for Windows or Mac users.

First, it would be useful if that page clarified the VM requirements and
whether Pharo requires a fork of the VM (I take it one needs a VM with
block closures--which means pretty recent--but the VM itself is not
forked).  I also was unsure what would happen if I had different VMs
lying around, though that might be too esoteric to put on the page.

Oh, and there is no statement "you need image, changes, source, and a VM
and here is how they are related."

Second, the instructions say
"When downloads are completed, uncompress all files in a folder (you
need an .image, .changes, and a .sources file) and run the virtual
machine."

I would interpret this as saying
mkdir myproject
cd myproject
unzip /some/path/to/file.zip

But this actually creates a directory underneath my project that has
everything.

Then if you unzip the virtual machine, that ends up in a different
subdirectory.  Maybe the sources zip would go to a 3rd directory (I just
made a symlink to a copy I already had).

So then someone new to smalltalk would need guidance about how to put
these together and actually start the image.

Third, the image has an update facility which was not mentioned.  I
wasn't entirely clear whether updating was a good or bad idea.  I did
the update.  Some guidance on the install page would be helpful.

A final curiosity: I created symlinks so that the image and changes file
appeared directly under myproject, invoking the VM from that same
directory.  After I did the updates, the cache directory was under the
image subdirectory, i.e. as if I had run from the target of the symlink.

Ross






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