Making GUI'S
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Hi Everybody! Today I found this smalltalk IDE, and I have recently installed. I used to use VisualWorks.
I like the general interface of this framework. What I want to know is where I make a "new Canvas"? or a GUI Window? There is a palette with widgets and these things? Thanks a lot, I've been finding a free IDE to develop in Smalltalk. Thanks a lot JP Cook - Argentina _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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Hi Juan,
Try : UITheme exampleColorControls UITheme exampleBasicControls UITheme exampleGroups UITheme exampleOtherControls UITheme exampleWindowWithToolbars The code to create these widget is there. Alexandre On 19 Jun 2009, at 14:32, Juan Pablo Cook wrote: > Hi Everybody! Today I found this smalltalk IDE, and I have recently > installed. I used to use VisualWorks. > I like the general interface of this framework. What I want to know > is where I make a "new Canvas"? or a GUI Window? There is a palette > with widgets and these things? Thanks a lot, I've been finding a > free IDE to develop in Smalltalk. > > Thanks a lot > > JP Cook - Argentina > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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Thanks a lot, but I'm a bit lost in pharo... Could you make a little example? Thanks a lot
On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Juan, _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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I do not understand where're lost. With Polymorph, with Smalltalk?
Open a workspace, cut and paste one of the line below, select, right click and doIt. Alexandre On 19 Jun 2009, at 15:01, Juan Pablo Cook wrote: > Thanks a lot, but I'm a bit lost in pharo... Could you make a little > example? Thanks a lot > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Alexandre Bergel > <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Juan, > > Try : > UITheme exampleColorControls > UITheme exampleBasicControls > UITheme exampleGroups > UITheme exampleOtherControls > UITheme exampleWindowWithToolbars > > The code to create these widget is there. > > Alexandre > > > > On 19 Jun 2009, at 14:32, Juan Pablo Cook wrote: > > > Hi Everybody! Today I found this smalltalk IDE, and I have recently > > installed. I used to use VisualWorks. > > I like the general interface of this framework. What I want to know > > is where I make a "new Canvas"? or a GUI Window? There is a palette > > with widgets and these things? Thanks a lot, I've been finding a > > free IDE to develop in Smalltalk. > > > > Thanks a lot > > > > JP Cook - Argentina > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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I think the question was 'where is the UI builder'?. In VW you have a
builder where you can drag and drop (to a certain extent) widgets on a canvas and define their properties. I'm not sure we have this in Pharo. thanks, Mike _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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Didn't I read somewhere that you can graphically "group" morphs
together via a menu option (e.g. make one widget a child of another)? If so, and if relative positioning is preserved, then given how one can create morphs in a workspace, it seems like the capability is nearly there. We just need a browser to enable full binding to the callbacks/blocks and a code storage spec that is compact. It seems like it should be dead simple to build one from scratch, even if the capability I inquired about (in the first sentence of this email) is not present. I don't know what I am waiting for -- except more time -- because I guess I should build such a thing. (Are there any Pharo/squeak coders available for part-time consulting over the next year? ...At student level pay I must add.) I too want a GUI builder. -Cam On Jun 19, 2009, at 3:22 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > I think the question was 'where is the UI builder'?. In VW you have a > builder where you can drag and drop (to a certain extent) widgets on a > canvas and define their properties. I'm not sure we have this in > Pharo. > > thanks, > > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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In reply to this post by Juan Pablo Cook
HI juan
there is no UiBUilder as in VW in pharo. This is not that we do not like but nobody implemented it yet :) Stef On Jun 19, 2009, at 8:32 PM, Juan Pablo Cook wrote: > Hi Everybody! Today I found this smalltalk IDE, and I have recently > installed. I used to use VisualWorks. > I like the general interface of this framework. What I want to know > is where I make a "new Canvas"? or a GUI Window? There is a palette > with widgets and these things? Thanks a lot, I've been finding a > free IDE to develop in Smalltalk. > > Thanks a lot > > JP Cook - Argentina > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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Ah ok, And a question, If you can help me... What framework with a UiBuilder for Smalltalk free there is? It's a problem I think...
Thanks a lot JP Cook On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: HI juan _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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On Jun 19, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Juan Pablo Cook wrote: > Ah ok, And a question, If you can help me... What framework with a > UiBuilder for Smalltalk free there is? It's a problem I think... None so far. We are at the beginner of a new area :) Now if you look at the examples send you you can also build user interfaces with polymorph and really sexy ones. But yes this is something needed. Stef > > Thanks a lot > > JP Cook > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email] > > wrote: > HI juan > > there is no UiBUilder as in VW in pharo. > This is not that we do not like but nobody implemented it yet :) > > Stef > > On Jun 19, 2009, at 8:32 PM, Juan Pablo Cook wrote: > > > Hi Everybody! Today I found this smalltalk IDE, and I have recently > > installed. I used to use VisualWorks. > > I like the general interface of this framework. What I want to know > > is where I make a "new Canvas"? or a GUI Window? There is a palette > > with widgets and these things? Thanks a lot, I've been finding a > > free IDE to develop in Smalltalk. > > > > Thanks a lot > > > > JP Cook - Argentina > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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In reply to this post by Cameron Sanders-3
On Jun 19, 2009, at 9:45 PM, Cameron Sanders wrote: > Didn't I read somewhere that you can graphically "group" morphs > together via a menu option (e.g. make one widget a child of another)? > If so, and if relative positioning is preserved, then given how one > can create morphs in a workspace, it seems like the capability is > nearly there. We just need a browser to enable full binding to the > callbacks/blocks and a code storage spec that is compact. It seems > like it should be dead simple to build one from scratch, even if the > capability I inquired about (in the first sentence of this email) is > not present. > > I don't know what I am waiting for -- except more time -- because I > guess I should build such a thing. (Are there any Pharo/squeak coders > available for part-time consulting over the next year? ...At student > level pay I must add.) > > I too want a GUI builder. > > -Cam > > On Jun 19, 2009, at 3:22 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > >> I think the question was 'where is the UI builder'?. In VW you have a >> builder where you can drag and drop (to a certain extent) widgets >> on a >> canvas and define their properties. I'm not sure we have this in >> Pharo. >> >> thanks, >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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In reply to this post by Cameron Sanders-3
>
> I don't know what I am waiting for -- except more time -- because I > guess I should build such a thing. (Are there any Pharo/squeak coders > available for part-time consulting over the next year? ...At student > level pay I must add.) > > I too want a GUI builder. me too :) So may be we could have a kind of bounty system for pharo. Frankly we are rather full and we (the core) have not that much time for extensions but we would support any work in the direction of UIBuilder TestServer Package.... FileWrite-Rio kind of integration Better MC support (yes I should look at MC1.5) Better SUnit Better tools (for example like the newInspector) Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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Value Models, TypeConverter library, SubCanvas support(super powerful idea here), etc... some really wonderful idioms long lost in OO guis.
VisualWorks had some really nice frameworks that were discarded due to them being undervalued. I hope to eventually re-introduce some of these fun frameworks into pharo given my time constraints and interest from potential users. see http://c2.com/ppr/vmodels.html Magritte seems like it might be a superior alternative to VisualWorks ValueModels; I haven't explored it enough to really know yet. Pharo is the most exciting thing to come along for me in quite awhile! On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Steve,
Interesting that you mention
value models. I just ran into a use for a ValueHolder, and discovered that
Dolphin's #value, #value: protocol was not present. In fact
ValueHolder>>value answers the receiver! I added an override to my
Dolphin compatibility package. I exepect to add AspectValueAdapter and
perhaps some converters as need arises.
None of this takes away from
Magritte; I share your interest in it and willingness to consider it as
potentially powerful tool for GUI building.
Bill
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Wirts Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:01 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S VisualWorks had some really nice frameworks that were discarded due to them being undervalued. I hope to eventually re-introduce some of these fun frameworks into pharo given my time constraints and interest from potential users. see http://c2.com/ppr/vmodels.html Magritte seems like it might be a superior alternative to VisualWorks ValueModels; I haven't explored it enough to really know yet. Pharo is the most exciting thing to come along for me in quite awhile! On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>
wrote:
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In reply to this post by Steve Wirts
To come back to Juan's latest question, let me say:
I spent many months last year loading software development environments for a variety of programming languages to see the state of the world. And I found myself disappointed that we really haven't bested smalltalk yet. Smalltalk is great, I just figured... something better would have come along over the years. For ease of realizing a design vision, and platform independence, it is hard to beat smalltalk. I could not commit to VisualWorks because of the licensing terms, for commercialize work. Dolphin is platform limited, and differs from the other smalltalks. VisualAge is too pricey! [I tried the other flavors too...] These are good tools, they just do not fit my requirements or means. After digging around, I like the licensing terms of Pharo. It is on the right track. It is rich in functionality. It works; it is robust. I am strictly a user right now, but I will try to contribute in the future. I like Stef's idea of a "bounty" -- great idea! So my advice for a free smalltalk is -- drumroll please... -- Pharo. But don't ignore Squeak itself, nor the variants, depending on your needs. That said, the the lack of a GUI builder is a clear deficiency. But we will add one. [Ahem... i sound like royalty with my use of the word "we"; i co-authored one in C/X/motif in the 1980s... it should be at least that simple in smalltalk. The aforementioned tool took two of us about one week; but I know nothing about Morph at this time.] Depending on your needs, simple GUI's are easy to build with Morph, but sometimes (most?) i just want to paint the interface and give it some thought before fully wiring it. It allows one to quickly probe whether the vision(the GUI) is an acceptable/comfortable/sufficient/... means for a user to interact with the application. Especially when working with others programmers, and worse, those pesky clients! Clients love interfaces. (I still do not know what Polymorph is, is it a completely different system? a piggy-back system? They can co-exist right? but they use a different value-changed notification system?) Pharo has value models, right? [Or am i... -- I'll look later.] Again, thanks to the good work of the Pharo people (and Squeak people), I have found some sanity in life. I got tired of Python changing. I cannot stand strong typing. I love Smalltalk. And the best part is that it's free! Cheers, Cam PS: speed is another high-priority. VisualWorks and Dolphin feel really snappy! On Jun 19, 2009, at 9:01 PM, Steve Wirts wrote: Value Models, TypeConverter library, SubCanvas support(super powerful idea here), etc... some really wonderful idioms long lost in OO guis. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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Hi Have you looked at Smalltalk/X? Includes GUI builders, super fast and has ValueModels. Maybe Pharo can learn a bit from ST/X? Regards Rudi
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In reply to this post by Steve Wirts
our goal is to make sure that you will have a nice clean system to
build such cool libraries. Stef On Jun 20, 2009, at 3:01 AM, Steve Wirts wrote: > Value Models, TypeConverter library, SubCanvas support(super > powerful idea here), etc... some really wonderful idioms long lost > in OO guis. > VisualWorks had some really nice frameworks that were discarded due > to them being undervalued. > I hope to eventually re-introduce some of these fun frameworks into > pharo given my time constraints and interest from potential users. > > see > http://c2.com/ppr/vmodels.html > > Magritte seems like it might be a superior alternative to > VisualWorks ValueModels; I haven't explored it enough to really > know yet. > Pharo is the most exciting thing to come along for me in quite awhile! > > > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email] > > wrote: > > > > I don't know what I am waiting for -- except more time -- because I > > guess I should build such a thing. (Are there any Pharo/squeak > coders > > available for part-time consulting over the next year? ...At student > > level pay I must add.) > > > > I too want a GUI builder. > > > me too :) > So may be we could have a kind of bounty system for pharo. > Frankly we are rather full and we (the core) have not that much time > for > extensions but we would support any work in the direction of > UIBuilder > TestServer > Package.... > FileWrite-Rio kind of integration > Better MC support (yes I should look at MC1.5) > Better SUnit > Better tools (for example like the newInspector) > > Stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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In reply to this post by Schwab,Wilhelm K
I did a talk(attached) at OOPSLA several years ago to explain the benefits of ValueModels to java programmers, it was way over their heads.
It's unfortunate as today I've yet to see anything in java that approaches the productivity they provide. 2009/6/20 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
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value models.ppt (307K) |
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In reply to this post by Rudi Engelbrecht
They could probably all learn from the other flavors. In fact, the
cross-smalltalk portability is a negative for smalltalk. I believe I tried smalltalk/X... that's the natively-compiled one, right? So it feels like C++ if you change a root class -- or am I confusing it with another? I'm on a new platform and can't check what all I installed last year, at the moment. I like the idea of a compiled version!! And there would be a place for it in my world, *if* I could take code from Pharo and load it into say, Smalltalk/X, and have it work without a month-long debugging session. -Cam On Jun 20, 2009, at 1:01 AM, Rudi Engelbrecht wrote: > Have you looked at Smalltalk/X? _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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In reply to this post by Steve Wirts
Just wondering if something similar can be done with Announcements? I think the Omnibrowser folks recently started wiring everything together using Announcments...?
Not sure...just interested! Take care, Rob 2009/6/20 Steve Wirts <[hidden email]> I did a talk(attached) at OOPSLA several years ago to explain the benefits of ValueModels to java programmers, it was way over their heads. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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In reply to this post by Steve Wirts
Also just wondering what anyone thought of the concept of Maui in the context of this discussion!
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3836 Rob 2009/6/20 Steve Wirts <[hidden email]> I did a talk(attached) at OOPSLA several years ago to explain the benefits of ValueModels to java programmers, it was way over their heads. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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