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laura

Manners on the list?

Hi all,

I really appreciate the dedication and effort someone generously put into answering a question. i want neither to waste such a lovely people's time by saying irrelevant things nor to sound harsh or dry to them.

It doesn't kind of feel right saying nothing when someone gives me a rather lengthly answer, unless it was the tacit agreement.

So i'm facing questions whether or not to make a post, because i'm not sure which are the right/usual manners for this particular mail-list form of communication.

My questions boils down to : how/when to provide feedback?

If for example i ask a question and receive answers from three people.

Should i always answer back

...commenting whether if it worked or not?

...only if it didn't solve my problem or if i had something useful for solving it to add? (like Stack Overflow)

Should i answer back in a separate post to each of them or in a single post to all?

Are one-line smalltalk comments alright here or should i avoid them?

Any other advice on manners is also welcome. A written manifest would be nice :)

Best,

Laura

Stephan Eggermont-3

Re: Manners on the list?

Hi Laura

>It doesn't kind of feel right saying nothing when someone gives me

>a rather lengthly answer, unless it was the tacit agreement.

Feedback is appreciated. Thanks for asking.

>So i'm facing questions whether or not to make a post, because i'm not sure which are the >right/usual manners for this particular mail-list form of communication.

Every mailing list is slightly different. Some have many posts, some have little.

Some are very focused, others less so. In general, the regulars will let you know

if something doesn't fit well. You can see how that works in the pharo-dev list

in the InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk thread, where Marcus asks if he should create

a pharo-talk mailing list. That was an indirect way to say that the discussion should

probably move elsewhere. After repeating it and getting some support for it, the

discussion started moving.

>My questions boils down to : how/when to provide feedback?

>If for example i ask a question and receive answers from three people.

>Should i always answer back

>...commenting whether if it worked or not?

>...only if it didn't solve my problem or if i had something

>useful for solving it to add? (like Stack Overflow)

This is the list of an open source community. Open source thrives on appreciation.

In SO, people can show appreciation by voting. The strict moderation makes it

very difficult to create a community. You can see that in the meta site of SO.

We have worldwide participants, so a hiatus of a day (or a weekend) in discussions

is expected. We like feedback. Feedback motivates.

>Should i answer back in a separate post to each of them or in a single post to all?

>Are one-line smalltalk comments alright here or should i avoid them?

If you can fit the response well in one post that is preferred, especially in longer

discussions. Please cut down the quotations in your response to the relevant parts.

One-line comments are fine.

>Any other advice on manners is also welcome. A written manifest would be nice :)

Most of Netnews Netiquette is still pretty useful.

Cheers,

Stephan Eggermont

stepharo

Re: Manners on the list?

In reply to this post by laura

When you have a technical questions or request for information just do not think.
- look on google
- if not found ask

Report problems with precision without thinking too much. Feedback is always important.

Then if you know the answer to a question (of somebody else) or found it (because this is a challenge to answer questions and a really good way to learn) do not hesitate to post

Stef

Le 17/1/15 00:48, Laura Risani a écrit :

Hi all,

I really appreciate the dedication and effort someone generously put into answering a question. i want neither to waste such a lovely people's time by saying irrelevant things nor to sound harsh or dry to them.

It doesn't kind of feel right saying nothing when someone gives me a rather lengthly answer, unless it was the tacit agreement.

So i'm facing questions whether or not to make a post, because i'm not sure which are the right/usual manners for this particular mail-list form of communication.

My questions boils down to : how/when to provide feedback?

If for example i ask a question and receive answers from three people.

Should i always answer back

...commenting whether if it worked or not?

...only if it didn't solve my problem or if i had something useful for solving it to add? (like Stack Overflow)

Should i answer back in a separate post to each of them or in a single post to all?

Are one-line smalltalk comments alright here or should i avoid them?

Any other advice on manners is also welcome. A written manifest would be nice :)

Best,

Laura

Ben Coman

Re: Manners on the list?

My favourite reference is Eric S Raymond's "How To Ask Smart Questions".

http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html.

Now actually its a friendlier community here that the ones referred to in that reference, but it provides some good philosophies to adhere to.

Reporting back success as well a failure is really good practice, since it is gratifying to know it was worth the time to provide advice, and also the next person wanting to do same thing will find this in their web search.

Where the histories start getting long, trim them to just the parts you are referring to.

I vary whether I respond to separate posts or as a single post. Using separate posts you should trim history more. "Perhaps" I use separate posts in the middle of discussion and a single compiled post as a final summary - but really there is a lot of latitude here.

and btw, I think you're ahead of the game asking as you did.

cheers -ben

On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 3:10 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:

When you have a technical questions or request for information just do not think.
- look on google
- if not found ask

Report problems with precision without thinking too much. Feedback is always important.

Then if you know the answer to a question (of somebody else) or found it (because this is a challenge to answer questions and a really good way to learn) do not hesitate to post

Stef

Le 17/1/15 00:48, Laura Risani a écrit :

Hi all,

I really appreciate the dedication and effort someone generously put into answering a question. i want neither to waste such a lovely people's time by saying irrelevant things nor to sound harsh or dry to them.

It doesn't kind of feel right saying nothing when someone gives me a rather lengthly answer, unless it was the tacit agreement.

So i'm facing questions whether or not to make a post, because i'm not sure which are the right/usual manners for this particular mail-list form of communication.

My questions boils down to : how/when to provide feedback?

If for example i ask a question and receive answers from three people.

Should i always answer back

...commenting whether if it worked or not?

...only if it didn't solve my problem or if i had something useful for solving it to add? (like Stack Overflow)

Should i answer back in a separate post to each of them or in a single post to all?

Are one-line smalltalk comments alright here or should i avoid them?

Any other advice on manners is also welcome. A written manifest would be nice :)

Best,

Laura

HilaireFernandes

Re: Manners on the list?

In reply to this post by laura

Le 17/01/2015 00:48, Laura Risani a écrit :
> It doesn't kind of feel right saying nothing when someone gives me a
> rather lengthly answer, unless it was the tacit agreement.
>
> So i'm facing questions whether or not to make a post, because i'm not
> sure which are the right/usual manners for this particular mail-list
> form of communication.
>

One can guess the right manner is the same manner you will use in real
life: if you get help from a problem, you just say thank you.

In the other hand, if you find yourself the answer to your problem, it
is useful to write an answer to your problem on the mailing list: the
problem you met was or will be a problem for other, so it is a nice,
simple and effective way to contribute.

Hilaire

--
Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu
iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

http://drgeo.eu

laura

Re: Manners on the list?

Thank you all for your responses. They led me to a founded criteria on posting behavior, one about which i was quite unsure before.

@Stephan Eggermont

I will always provide feedback. And try my best to format it.

@stepharo

>because this is a challenge to answer questions and a really good way to learn

Interesting point, i haven't thought about.

@ben

>My favourite reference is Eric S Raymond's "How To Ask Smart Questions". http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html.

I like people who doesn't consider the basic to be trivial.

@Hilaire

>it is useful to write an answer to your problem on the mailing list: the problem you met was or will be a problem for other, so it is a nice,

simple and effective way to contribute.

Should one embrace the policy of each time one gets a question answered or a problem solved on the list, make a self answering post on Stack Overflow to render it readably available to others and also as a practical display of gratitude? If the question gets closed it won't be matter (or just a little)

Best,

Laura

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:

Le 17/01/2015 00:48, Laura Risani a écrit :
> It doesn't kind of feel right saying nothing when someone gives me a
> rather lengthly answer, unless it was the tacit agreement.
>
> So i'm facing questions whether or not to make a post, because i'm not
> sure which are the right/usual manners for this particular mail-list
> form of communication.
>

One can guess the right manner is the same manner you will use in real
life: if you get help from a problem, you just say thank you.

In the other hand, if you find yourself the answer to your problem, it
is useful to write an answer to your problem on the mailing list: the
problem you met was or will be a problem for other, so it is a nice,
simple and effective way to contribute.

Hilaire

--
Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu
iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

abergel

Re: Manners on the list?

Guys…
I am convinced that Laura is not a real person, but simply a bot.

Laura, prove me I am wrong, how much is 2 + 3 ?

Alexandre

> On Jan 18, 2015, at 8:27 PM, Laura Risani <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thank you all for your responses. They led me to a founded criteria on posting behavior, one about which i was quite unsure before.
>
>
> @Stephan Eggermont
> I will always provide feedback. And try my best to format it.
>
> @stepharo
> >because this is a challenge to answer questions and a really good way to learn
> Interesting point, i haven't thought about.
>
> @ben
> >My favourite reference is Eric S Raymond's "How To Ask Smart Questions". http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html.
> I like people who doesn't consider the basic to be trivial.
>
> @Hilaire
> >it is useful to write an answer to your problem on the mailing list: the problem you met was or will be a problem for other, so it is a nice,
> simple and effective way to contribute.
> Should one embrace the policy of each time one gets a question answered or a problem solved on the list, make a self answering post on Stack Overflow to render it readably available to others and also as a practical display of gratitude? If the question gets closed it won't be matter (or just a little)
>
> Best,
> Laura
>
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Le 17/01/2015 00:48, Laura Risani a écrit :
> > It doesn't kind of feel right saying nothing when someone gives me a
> > rather lengthly answer, unless it was the tacit agreement.
> >
> > So i'm facing questions whether or not to make a post, because i'm not
> > sure which are the right/usual manners for this particular mail-list
> > form of communication.
> >
>
> One can guess the right manner is the same manner you will use in real
> life: if you get help from a problem, you just say thank you.
>
> In the other hand, if you find yourself the answer to your problem, it
> is useful to write an answer to your problem on the mailing list: the
> problem you met was or will be a problem for other, so it is a nice,
> simple and effective way to contribute.
>
> Hilaire
>
> --
> Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu
> iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu
>
>
>

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

hernanmd

Re: Manners on the list?

Alex, we exchanged some e-mails last week, I claim is human based on e-mail contents.

Cheers,

Hernán

2015-01-18 21:18 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>:

Guys…
I am convinced that Laura is not a real person, but simply a bot.

Laura, prove me I am wrong, how much is 2 + 3 ?

Alexandre

> On Jan 18, 2015, at 8:27 PM, Laura Risani <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thank you all for your responses. They led me to a founded criteria on posting behavior, one about which i was quite unsure before.
>
>
> @Stephan Eggermont
> I will always provide feedback. And try my best to format it.
>
> @stepharo
> >because this is a challenge to answer questions and a really good way to learn
> Interesting point, i haven't thought about.
>
> @ben
> >My favourite reference is Eric S Raymond's "How To Ask Smart Questions". http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html.
> I like people who doesn't consider the basic to be trivial.
>
> @Hilaire
> >it is useful to write an answer to your problem on the mailing list: the problem you met was or will be a problem for other, so it is a nice,
> simple and effective way to contribute.
> Should one embrace the policy of each time one gets a question answered or a problem solved on the list, make a self answering post on Stack Overflow to render it readably available to others and also as a practical display of gratitude? If the question gets closed it won't be matter (or just a little)
>
> Best,
> Laura
>
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Le 17/01/2015 00:48, Laura Risani a écrit :
> > It doesn't kind of feel right saying nothing when someone gives me a
> > rather lengthly answer, unless it was the tacit agreement.
> >
> > So i'm facing questions whether or not to make a post, because i'm not
> > sure which are the right/usual manners for this particular mail-list
> > form of communication.
> >
>
> One can guess the right manner is the same manner you will use in real
> life: if you get help from a problem, you just say thank you.
>
> In the other hand, if you find yourself the answer to your problem, it
> is useful to write an answer to your problem on the mailing list: the
> problem you met was or will be a problem for other, so it is a nice,
> simple and effective way to contribute.
>
> Hilaire
>
> --
> Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu
> iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu
>
>
>

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

jfabry

Re: Manners on the list?

AI has come a long way in the last few years ! :-)

(Sorry, I could not resist … )

On Jan 19, 2015, at 05:49, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Alex, we exchanged some e-mails last week, I claim is human based on e-mail contents.
Cheers,

Hernán

2015-01-18 21:18 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>:
Guys…
I am convinced that Laura is not a real person, but simply a bot.

Laura, prove me I am wrong, how much is 2 + 3 ?

Alexandre

---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---

Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry
PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

laura

Re: Manners on the list?

In reply to this post by abergel

Alexandre, i was born human. One day i fell in love and my heart was broken. Not having found a fix, i remain since then a heartless bot.

2 + 3 = 3 + 2

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:

Guys…
I am convinced that Laura is not a real person, but simply a bot.

Laura, prove me I am wrong, how much is 2 + 3 ?

Alexandre

> On Jan 18, 2015, at 8:27 PM, Laura Risani <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thank you all for your responses. They led me to a founded criteria on posting behavior, one about which i was quite unsure before.
>
>
> @Stephan Eggermont
> I will always provide feedback. And try my best to format it.
>
> @stepharo
> >because this is a challenge to answer questions and a really good way to learn
> Interesting point, i haven't thought about.
>
> @ben
> >My favourite reference is Eric S Raymond's "How To Ask Smart Questions". http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html.
> I like people who doesn't consider the basic to be trivial.
>
> @Hilaire
> >it is useful to write an answer to your problem on the mailing list: the problem you met was or will be a problem for other, so it is a nice,
> simple and effective way to contribute.
> Should one embrace the policy of each time one gets a question answered or a problem solved on the list, make a self answering post on Stack Overflow to render it readably available to others and also as a practical display of gratitude? If the question gets closed it won't be matter (or just a little)
>
> Best,
> Laura
>
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Le 17/01/2015 00:48, Laura Risani a écrit :
> > It doesn't kind of feel right saying nothing when someone gives me a
> > rather lengthly answer, unless it was the tacit agreement.
> >
> > So i'm facing questions whether or not to make a post, because i'm not
> > sure which are the right/usual manners for this particular mail-list
> > form of communication.
> >
>
> One can guess the right manner is the same manner you will use in real
> life: if you get help from a problem, you just say thank you.
>
> In the other hand, if you find yourself the answer to your problem, it
> is useful to write an answer to your problem on the mailing list: the
> problem you met was or will be a problem for other, so it is a nice,
> simple and effective way to contribute.
>
> Hilaire
>
> --
> Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu
> iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu
>
>
>

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

hernanmd

Re: Manners on the list?

In reply to this post by jfabry

Yes, I thought about joking. But see, having this kind of e-mails with tone of accusation and request for proof... sounds horrible.

This is not a nice welcome for newbies.

Hernán

2015-01-19 11:34 GMT-03:00 Johan Fabry <[hidden email]>:

AI has come a long way in the last few years ! :-)

(Sorry, I could not resist … )

On Jan 19, 2015, at 05:49, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Alex, we exchanged some e-mails last week, I claim is human based on e-mail contents.
Cheers,

Hernán

2015-01-18 21:18 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>:
Guys…
I am convinced that Laura is not a real person, but simply a bot.

Laura, prove me I am wrong, how much is 2 + 3 ?

Alexandre

---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---

Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry
PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

kilon.alios

Re: Manners on the list?

In reply to this post by laura

Boys dont be fooled , this is Skynet. The End is Nigh!

On the subject of manners, you look like a sensible being even for an AI, just be polite. And yes replying to messages is a way to be polite also its not about manners, generally sharing your experience with pharo can help benefit all of us or some of us. There is a reason that I am registered to this mailing list and is way more just to answer my questions about Pharo , it is about learning through the experience of others.

I have 3 rules that I demand others including me to follow

1) respect others

2) have fun as much as you can handle

3) be stubborn never give up

Now of you of go back to making your army of terminators and I'll be back.

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 7:21 PM, Laura Risani <[hidden email]> wrote:

Alexandre, i was born human. One day i fell in love and my heart was broken. Not having found a fix, i remain since then a heartless bot.

2 + 3 = 3 + 2

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Guys…
I am convinced that Laura is not a real person, but simply a bot.

Laura, prove me I am wrong, how much is 2 + 3 ?

Alexandre

> On Jan 18, 2015, at 8:27 PM, Laura Risani <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thank you all for your responses. They led me to a founded criteria on posting behavior, one about which i was quite unsure before.
>
>
> @Stephan Eggermont
> I will always provide feedback. And try my best to format it.
>
> @stepharo
> >because this is a challenge to answer questions and a really good way to learn
> Interesting point, i haven't thought about.
>
> @ben
> >My favourite reference is Eric S Raymond's "How To Ask Smart Questions". http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html.
> I like people who doesn't consider the basic to be trivial.
>
> @Hilaire
> >it is useful to write an answer to your problem on the mailing list: the problem you met was or will be a problem for other, so it is a nice,
> simple and effective way to contribute.
> Should one embrace the policy of each time one gets a question answered or a problem solved on the list, make a self answering post on Stack Overflow to render it readably available to others and also as a practical display of gratitude? If the question gets closed it won't be matter (or just a little)
>
> Best,
> Laura
>
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Le 17/01/2015 00:48, Laura Risani a écrit :
> > It doesn't kind of feel right saying nothing when someone gives me a
> > rather lengthly answer, unless it was the tacit agreement.
> >
> > So i'm facing questions whether or not to make a post, because i'm not
> > sure which are the right/usual manners for this particular mail-list
> > form of communication.
> >
>
> One can guess the right manner is the same manner you will use in real
> life: if you get help from a problem, you just say thank you.
>
> In the other hand, if you find yourself the answer to your problem, it
> is useful to write an answer to your problem on the mailing list: the
> problem you met was or will be a problem for other, so it is a nice,
> simple and effective way to contribute.
>
> Hilaire
>
> --
> Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu
> iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu
>
>
>

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.