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Mixing Spec and Glamour?

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Offray

Mixing Spec and Glamour?

Hi all,

Glamour has been a really empowering framework for quick prototyping of
my ideas, but my browser starts to need more common user interface things:

1. A explicit menu with submenus on top of the browser windows (not
hidden behind the dots like now).
2. Better icons and a tool bar.
3. A contextual menu in each node of the tree for actions on that node.

I remember an introductory video of Tudor where he said that Moose is
not for general interface building (I can't find it right now) and If
I'm well some time ago versioner was made on Glamour.

So, my question is: If I want the features of a common interface, which
is the best approach? Rewrite the interface on Spec or mixing/extend
some parts of the browser with spec or anything else? If the last is the
case, there is any documentation or examples I can look?

Thanks,

Offray
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Stephan Eggermont-3

Re: Mixing Spec and Glamour?

> On 24 apr. 2015, at 23:52, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Glamour has been a really empowering framework for quick prototyping of my ideas, but my browser starts to need more common user interface things:
>
> 1. A explicit menu with submenus on top of the browser windows (not hidden behind the dots like now).
> 2. Better icons and a tool bar.
> 3. A contextual menu in each node of the tree for actions on that node.

Sounds perfectly compatible with Glamour. You might need to make some small extensions to Glamour for 1 and perhaps the tool bar. For understanding how to extend you'll need to take a look at how things are done in Morphic

Stephan

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Offray

Re: Mixing Spec and Glamour?

Hi Stephan,

Thanks. The main issue for me with morphic is there is little
information right now, except may be for [1] and the upcoming
information from the Kilion chapter/document. I will take a look to
Spec, which seems to have the most updated/complete documentation now
and get a feeling of it and come back with findings/inquiries.

[1] http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/PBE1/PBE1ch12.html

Cheers,

Offray

El 25/04/15 a las 00:47, Stephan Eggermont escribió:

>
>> On 24 apr. 2015, at 23:52, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Glamour has been a really empowering framework for quick prototyping of my ideas, but my browser starts to need more common user interface things:
>>
>> 1. A explicit menu with submenus on top of the browser windows (not hidden behind the dots like now).
>> 2. Better icons and a tool bar.
>> 3. A contextual menu in each node of the tree for actions on that node.
>
> Sounds perfectly compatible with Glamour. You might need to make some small extensions to Glamour for 1 and perhaps the tool bar. For understanding how to extend you'll need to take a look at how things are done in Morphic
>
> Stephan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>

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Stephan Eggermont-3

Re: Mixing Spec and Glamour?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

> Op 25 apr. 2015 om 18:10 heeft Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Hi Stephan,
>
> Thanks. The main issue for me with morphic is there is little information right now, except may be for [1] and the upcoming information from the Kilion chapter/document. I will take a look to Spec, which seems to have the most updated/complete documentation now and get a feeling of it and come back with findings/inquiries.

That won't really help you. Spec is mapped to Morphic. It might be easier to understand Bloc, but that isn't finished. Morphic documentation exists, but is widely dispersed and partially woefully out of date. The squeak wiki provides lots of information. Also take a look at Polymorph for how things can actually work (but perhaps not for how to structure it) and in a Squeak image for lots of sample code.

Stephan
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Peter Uhnak

Re: Mixing Spec and Glamour?

On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email]> wrote:

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

> Op 25 apr. 2015 om 18:10 heeft Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Hi Stephan,
>
> Thanks. The main issue for me with morphic is there is little information right now, except may be for [1] and the upcoming information from the Kilion chapter/document. I will take a look to Spec, which seems to have the most updated/complete documentation now and get a feeling of it and come back with findings/inquiries.

That won't really help you. Spec is mapped to Morphic.

Having more stuff under Spec than Morphic would help with the interface. There is a lot of mess, but there is also continued effort to clean it up and make it work as it should.

But in principle nothing should really be stopping you (imho) from writing GlamourAdapter between Spec and Glamour just like it is done for Morphic.

Unless you are doing something really specific and want very tight control over things (e.g. Spotter) Spec should be the go-to choice.

1. A explicit menu with submenus on top of the browser windows (not hidden behind the dots like now).
2. Better icons and a tool bar.

Spec has support for this

also look at

ApplicationWithToolbar new openWithSpec

3. A contextual menu in each node of the tree for actions on that node.

This can be also done

look at TreeModel, and ListModel; both have class-side examples.

Peter

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Stephan Eggermont-3

Re: Mixing Spec and Glamour?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

> Op 25 apr. 2015 om 20:05 heeft Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Having more stuff under Spec than Morphic would help with the interface.

That is a long term goal. As a next step for his current application it is a bad idea. It is adding another layer with little benefit.

> But in principle nothing should really be stopping you (imho) from writing GlamourAdapter between Spec and Glamour just like it is done for Morphic.

Can be done. Provides no added value atm. Once Bloc is ready that decision should be revisited

> Unless you are doing something really specific and want very tight control over things (e.g. Spotter) Spec should be the go-to choice.

No. He has a Glamour application and just needs a few enhancements.
Just make them in Glamour/Morphic/Magritte-Morphic

Stephan
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Offray

Re: Mixing Spec and Glamour?

Hi,

Thanks Peter and Stephen for presenting your options. Probably this UI
enhancements and improvements will wait a little because I will need to
improve the code and functionality first a bit more, but I want to start
mapping options right now. Seems that Spec has a lot of prebuilt parts,
but I wouldn't like to rewrite the interface already in glamour
completely on Spec.

I would like to start with something small to evaluate the options.
Something like: How to add a visible menu on top of the browser window?

If you can point me a more specific direction about how make this
exploration with your suggested options, I could tell you what seems
more appropriate.

Cheers,

Offray

El 25/04/15 a las 14:10, Stephan Eggermont escribió:

>
>
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
>
>> Op 25 apr. 2015 om 20:05 heeft Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>> Having more stuff under Spec than Morphic would help with the interface.
>
> That is a long term goal. As a next step for his current application it is a bad idea. It is adding another layer with little benefit.
>
>> But in principle nothing should really be stopping you (imho) from writing GlamourAdapter between Spec and Glamour just like it is done for Morphic.
>
> Can be done. Provides no added value atm. Once Bloc is ready that decision should be revisited
>
>> Unless you are doing something really specific and want very tight control over things (e.g. Spotter) Spec should be the go-to choice.
>
> No. He has a Glamour application and just needs a few enhancements.
> Just make them in Glamour/Morphic/Magritte-Morphic
>
> Stephan
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>

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kilon.alios

Re: Mixing Spec and Glamour?

"and the upcoming
information from the Kilion chapter/document"

My MorphicDoc project is on low priority because of focusing on other things. Its just a documentation of the things I learn from Morphic and an excuse to learn Morphic. So I dont want to get people's expectations high that this is something that will be finished any time soon or that will move in a quick way. But I will add things to it from time to time, so as a project it won die.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 10:49 PM Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Thanks Peter and Stephen for presenting your options. Probably this UI
enhancements and improvements will wait a little because I will need to
improve the code and functionality first a bit more, but I want to start
mapping options right now. Seems that Spec has a lot of prebuilt parts,
but I wouldn't like to rewrite the interface already in glamour
completely on Spec.

I would like to start with something small to evaluate the options.
Something like: How to add a visible menu on top of the browser window?

If you can point me a more specific direction about how make this
exploration with your suggested options, I could tell you what seems
more appropriate.

Cheers,

Offray

El 25/04/15 a las 14:10, Stephan Eggermont escribió:
>
>
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
>
>> Op 25 apr. 2015 om 20:05 heeft Peter Uhnák <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>> Having more stuff under Spec than Morphic would help with the interface.
>
> That is a long term goal. As a next step for his current application it is a bad idea. It is adding another layer with little benefit.
>
>> But in principle nothing should really be stopping you (imho) from writing GlamourAdapter between Spec and Glamour just like it is done for Morphic.
>
> Can be done. Provides no added value atm. Once Bloc is ready that decision should be revisited
>
>> Unless you are doing something really specific and want very tight control over things (e.g. Spotter) Spec should be the go-to choice.
>
> No. He has a Glamour application and just needs a few enhancements.
> Just make them in Glamour/Morphic/Magritte-Morphic
>
> Stephan
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>

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jfabry

Re: Mixing Spec and Glamour?

In reply to this post by Offray

One option that may be feasible, and I think is interesting in general, is to find a way to embed a Glamourous presentation inside a Spec UI. This way you can mix and match. You can have one widget of the UI one Glamour presentation, or multiple widgets multiple Glamour presentations (et cetera). If you can make Glamour give you a Morph instead of opening its own window, send it the message asSpecAdapter. The returned value is a Spec widget that you can use in your Spec UI.

For documentation on Spec, have a look at https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/PharoBookWorkInProgress/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Spec/

> On Apr 25, 2015, at 16:54, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks Peter and Stephen for presenting your options. Probably this UI enhancements and improvements will wait a little because I will need to improve the code and functionality first a bit more, but I want to start mapping options right now. Seems that Spec has a lot of prebuilt parts, but I wouldn't like to rewrite the interface already in glamour completely on Spec.
>
> I would like to start with something small to evaluate the options. Something like: How to add a visible menu on top of the browser window?
>
> If you can point me a more specific direction about how make this exploration with your suggested options, I could tell you what seems more appropriate.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>

---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---

Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry
PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

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