Mondrian: present and future

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Mondrian: present and future

Alexandre Bergel
Hi All,

Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues from  
Bern, Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization  
engine for quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs  
(e.g., popupView) it is fairly stable and usable. The current version  
is 2.0-beta.7.

Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I had  
with Doru and Stéphane today.
Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are:
   - scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this  
is a very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
   - add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer.  
Layers could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea  
is to enable the construction of scripts in a very iterative and  
incremental way.
   - having a small core embeddable in your application
   - making Mondrian load graphiz scripts
   - having a better help system (à la ProfStef)
   - dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2
   - exporting as PDF
   - anti-aliasing

This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel  
necessary to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are  
wanted. Using Rome is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of  
rooms for a very cool visualization engine.

Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current  
version by fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.

Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/
Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian

Let's render our dream!

Cheers,
Alexandre

NB: sorry for this cross mailing list post.
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
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^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.






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Re: [Pharo-project] Mondrian: present and future

Stéphane Ducasse

On Apr 1, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues from Bern, Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization engine for quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs (e.g., popupView) it is fairly stable and usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
>
> Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I had with Doru and Stéphane today.
> Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are:
>  - scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this is a very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
>  - add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer. Layers could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to enable the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way.
this is a nice idea

>  - having a small core embeddable in your application
>  - making Mondrian load graphiz scripts
>  - having a better help system (à la ProfStef)
>  - dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2
>  - exporting as PDF
>  - anti-aliasing
>
> This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel necessary to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are wanted. Using Rome is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of rooms for a very cool visualization engine.
>
> Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current version by fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
>
> Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/
> Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
>
> Let's render our dream!

:)


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Re: [Pharo-project] Mondrian: present and future

Tudor Girba
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues  
>> from Bern, Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this  
>> visualization engine for quite some times. Although it contains  
>> some important bugs (e.g., popupView) it is fairly stable and  
>> usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
>>
>> Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I  
>> had with Doru and Stéphane today.
>> Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are:
>> - scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this  
>> is a very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
>> - add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer.  
>> Layers could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The  
>> idea is to enable the construction of scripts in a very iterative  
>> and incremental way.
> this is a nice idea

Thanks :)

>> - having a small core embeddable in your application
>> - making Mondrian load graphiz scripts
>> - having a better help system (à la ProfStef)
>> - dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2
>> - exporting as PDF
>> - anti-aliasing
>>
>> This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel  
>> necessary to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are  
>> wanted. Using Rome is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of  
>> rooms for a very cool visualization engine.
>>
>> Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current  
>> version by fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
>>
>> Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/
>> Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
>>
>> Let's render our dream!
>
> :)
>
>
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> [hidden email]
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Re: [Pharo-project] Mondrian: present and future

Lukas Renggli
>>> - scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this is a
>>> very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
>>> - add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer. Layers
>>> could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to enable
>>> the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way.
>>
>> this is a nice idea
>
> Thanks :)

Fun to hear that, because the initial Mondrian code I wrote for
Squeak/Pharo had layers. Also an efficient spring layout with edges
that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal
crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at some
point in time.

Lukas

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Re: [Pharo-project] Mondrian: present and future

Tudor Girba
On 1 Apr 2010, at 23:33, Lukas Renggli wrote:

>>>> - scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this  
>>>> is a
>>>> very simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
>>>> - add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer.  
>>>> Layers
>>>> could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is  
>>>> to enable
>>>> the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental  
>>>> way.
>>>
>>> this is a nice idea
>>
>> Thanks :)
>
> Fun to hear that, because the initial Mondrian code I wrote for
> Squeak/Pharo had layers.

Ha, I was waiting for that :).

> Also an efficient spring layout with edges
> that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal
> crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at some
> point in time.

I did not know this one.

Doru

> Lukas
>
> --
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> www.lukas-renggli.ch
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Re: [Pharo-project] Mondrian: present and future

Lukas Renggli
>> Also an efficient spring layout with edges
>> that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal
>> crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at some
>> point in time.
>
> I did not know this one.

Julien used it in his back-in-time debugger to visualize flow of data
in a (potentially large) graph of objects.

Also the original Squeak/Pharo code had anti-aliasing.

Lukas

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Re: [Pharo-project] Mondrian: present and future

Tudor Girba

On 2 Apr 2010, at 00:03, Lukas Renggli wrote:

>>> Also an efficient spring layout with edges
>>> that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal
>>> crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at  
>>> some
>>> point in time.
>>
>> I did not know this one.
>
> Julien used it in his back-in-time debugger to visualize flow of data
> in a (potentially large) graph of objects.

I knew about the fisheye view layout for trees, but I did not know  
about the minimal crossing algorithm. Do you have more details?

> Also the original Squeak/Pharo code had anti-aliasing.

I think that Alex wanted to say to implement anti-aliasing fast.

Cheers,
Doru

> Lukas
>
> --
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> www.lukas-renggli.ch
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Re: [Pharo-project] Mondrian: present and future

Lukas Renggli
>>>> Also an efficient spring layout with edges
>>>> that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal
>>>> crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at some
>>>> point in time.
>>>
>>> I did not know this one.
>>
>> Julien used it in his back-in-time debugger to visualize flow of data
>> in a (potentially large) graph of objects.
>
> I knew about the fisheye view layout for trees, but I did not know about the
> minimal crossing algorithm. Do you have more details?

The fisheye layout was not using Mondrian, also because he had some
animations on it.

Mondrian was used in the context and receiver inspector to visualize
the relationship between the objects.

The layout was based on GraphViz.

>> Also the original Squeak/Pharo code had anti-aliasing.
>
> I think that Alex wanted to say to implement anti-aliasing fast.

I doubt that you can get it any faster with the technology built into
Pharo, because in the end the drawing works through primitives and the
aliasing is just a flag that is set. Maybe something based on Cairo or
OpenGL would be faster?

Lukas

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Re: [Pharo-project] Mondrian: present and future

Tudor Girba
On 2 Apr 2010, at 00:21, Lukas Renggli wrote:

>>>>> Also an efficient spring layout with edges
>>>>> that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal
>>>>> crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code  
>>>>> at some
>>>>> point in time.
>>>>
>>>> I did not know this one.
>>>
>>> Julien used it in his back-in-time debugger to visualize flow of  
>>> data
>>> in a (potentially large) graph of objects.
>>
>> I knew about the fisheye view layout for trees, but I did not know  
>> about the
>> minimal crossing algorithm. Do you have more details?
>
> The fisheye layout was not using Mondrian, also because he had some
> animations on it.
>
> Mondrian was used in the context and receiver inspector to visualize
> the relationship between the objects.
>
> The layout was based on GraphViz.
>
>>> Also the original Squeak/Pharo code had anti-aliasing.
>>
>> I think that Alex wanted to say to implement anti-aliasing fast.
>
> I doubt that you can get it any faster with the technology built into
> Pharo, because in the end the drawing works through primitives and the
> aliasing is just a flag that is set. Maybe something based on Cairo or
> OpenGL would be faster?

I suppose.

One thing I was thinking of was to trigger the anti-aliasing at least  
when exporting the picture and not for regular visualizations. The  
idea is that when you export it you have time and you typically want  
better quality (paper, report or just bragging :)). That should be  
doable now.

Cheers,
Doru

> Lukas
>
> --
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> www.lukas-renggli.ch
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Re: [Pharo-project] Mondrian: present and future

Alexandre Bergel
In reply to this post by Tudor Girba
>> Also an efficient spring layout with edges
>> that automatically avoid nodes and that are optimized for minimal
>> crossings was implemented by Julien Fierz and part of the code at  
>> some
>> point in time.
>
> I did not know this one.


Me neither. Any idea where I can look at it? In your repository ?

Alexandre

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Re: [Pharo-project] Mondrian: present and future

Alexandre Bergel
In reply to this post by Tudor Girba
> I think that Alex wanted to say to implement anti-aliasing fast.


Indeed. One that can render hundreds of edges.

Alexandre

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Re: Mondrian: present and future

Chris Muller-3
In reply to this post by Alexandre Bergel
HI Alexandre, what is the current status of Mondrian on Squeak?  I've
always been intrigued by Mondrian, what would be the best approach for
getting it going on Squeak?

I am mostly interested using Mondrians rendering and input-event
handling inside my own widgets, not OB or other windowing tools.  How
hard would it be to extricate just the Form-drawing and
input-capability of the Mondrian core from the OB window widgetry that
seems to be included in the package (at least, the last time I
looked)?

 - Chris

On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues from Bern,
> Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization engine for
> quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs (e.g., popupView)
> it is fairly stable and usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
>
> Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I had with
> Doru and Stéphane today.
> Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are:
>  - scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this is a very
> simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
>  - add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer. Layers
> could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to enable
> the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way.
>  - having a small core embeddable in your application
>  - making Mondrian load graphiz scripts
>  - having a better help system (à la ProfStef)
>  - dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2
>  - exporting as PDF
>  - anti-aliasing
>
> This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel necessary
> to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are wanted. Using Rome
> is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of rooms for a very cool
> visualization engine.
>
> Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current version by
> fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
>
> Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/
> Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
>
> Let's render our dream!
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
>
> NB: sorry for this cross mailing list post.
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>

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Re: Mondrian: present and future

Tudor Girba
Hi Chris,

The core of Mondrian has no relationship with OB.

The rendering of Mondrian only depends on Canvas. By default, when you  
say "view open" a window with a canvas is created and the canvas is  
passed to Mondrian.

Cheers,
Doru


On 3 Apr 2010, at 19:11, Chris Muller wrote:

> HI Alexandre, what is the current status of Mondrian on Squeak?  I've
> always been intrigued by Mondrian, what would be the best approach for
> getting it going on Squeak?
>
> I am mostly interested using Mondrians rendering and input-event
> handling inside my own widgets, not OB or other windowing tools.  How
> hard would it be to extricate just the Form-drawing and
> input-capability of the Mondrian core from the OB window widgetry that
> seems to be included in the package (at least, the last time I
> looked)?
>
> - Chris
>
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel  
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues  
>> from Bern,
>> Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization  
>> engine for
>> quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs (e.g.,  
>> popupView)
>> it is fairly stable and usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
>>
>> Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I  
>> had with
>> Doru and Stéphane today.
>> Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are:
>>  - scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this  
>> is a very
>> simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
>>  - add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer.  
>> Layers
>> could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is  
>> to enable
>> the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way.
>>  - having a small core embeddable in your application
>>  - making Mondrian load graphiz scripts
>>  - having a better help system (à la ProfStef)
>>  - dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2
>>  - exporting as PDF
>>  - anti-aliasing
>>
>> This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel  
>> necessary
>> to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are wanted.  
>> Using Rome
>> is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of rooms for a very cool
>> visualization engine.
>>
>> Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current  
>> version by
>> fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
>>
>> Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/
>> Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
>>
>> Let's render our dream!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Alexandre
>>
>> NB: sorry for this cross mailing list post.
>> --
>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
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Re: Mondrian: present and future

Alexandre Bergel
In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3
Hi Chris,

I haven't recently tried to install Mondrian on Squeak. If it does not  
work, no much should be missing I believe. There is nothing in Pharo  
which is a crucial requirement. If you wish to see Mondrian on Squeak,  
then I can help to make it work.

> I am mostly interested using Mondrians rendering and input-event
> handling inside my own widgets, not OB or other windowing tools.  How
> hard would it be to extricate just the Form-drawing and
> input-capability of the Mondrian core from the OB window widgetry that
> seems to be included in the package (at least, the last time I
> looked)?

As Doru said, there is no relationship between Mondrian and OB.  
Mondrian was dependend on OB some times ago principally for the text  
input lower pane. But not anymore.
If you have any question on how to use Mondrian, please ask.

Cheers,
Alexandre

>
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel  
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues  
>> from Bern,
>> Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization  
>> engine for
>> quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs (e.g.,  
>> popupView)
>> it is fairly stable and usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
>>
>> Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I  
>> had with
>> Doru and Stéphane today.
>> Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are:
>>  - scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this  
>> is a very
>> simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
>>  - add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer.  
>> Layers
>> could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is  
>> to enable
>> the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way.
>>  - having a small core embeddable in your application
>>  - making Mondrian load graphiz scripts
>>  - having a better help system (à la ProfStef)
>>  - dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2
>>  - exporting as PDF
>>  - anti-aliasing
>>
>> This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel  
>> necessary
>> to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are wanted.  
>> Using Rome
>> is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of rooms for a very cool
>> visualization engine.
>>
>> Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current  
>> version by
>> fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
>>
>> Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/
>> Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
>>
>> Let's render our dream!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Alexandre
>>
>> NB: sorry for this cross mailing list post.
>> --
>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>
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^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.






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Re: Mondrian: present and future

Chris Muller-3
This is excellent news, thank you..!

On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> I haven't recently tried to install Mondrian on Squeak. If it does not work,
> no much should be missing I believe. There is nothing in Pharo which is a
> crucial requirement. If you wish to see Mondrian on Squeak, then I can help
> to make it work.
>
>> I am mostly interested using Mondrians rendering and input-event
>> handling inside my own widgets, not OB or other windowing tools.  How
>> hard would it be to extricate just the Form-drawing and
>> input-capability of the Mondrian core from the OB window widgetry that
>> seems to be included in the package (at least, the last time I
>> looked)?
>
> As Doru said, there is no relationship between Mondrian and OB. Mondrian was
> dependend on OB some times ago principally for the text input lower pane.
> But not anymore.
> If you have any question on how to use Mondrian, please ask.
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Just to give some news about Mondrian. Together with colleagues from
>>> Bern,
>>> Lille and Santiago, I have been working on this visualization engine for
>>> quite some times. Although it contains some important bugs (e.g.,
>>> popupView)
>>> it is fairly stable and usable. The current version is 2.0-beta.7.
>>>
>>> Mondrian is slowly maturing. A short summary of the discussion I had with
>>> Doru and Stéphane today.
>>> Some of the features I would like to see in for Version 3.0 are:
>>>  - scalable spring layout (also known as force based layout): this is a
>>> very
>>> simple and nice layout that produces amazing results
>>>  - add layers: embedding a rendering or a part of it in a layer. Layers
>>> could then be iteratively activated and desactivared. The idea is to
>>> enable
>>> the construction of scripts in a very iterative and incremental way.
>>>  - having a small core embeddable in your application
>>>  - making Mondrian load graphiz scripts
>>>  - having a better help system (à la ProfStef)
>>>  - dedicated chapter for Pharo By Example Volume 2
>>>  - exporting as PDF
>>>  - anti-aliasing
>>>
>>> This probably will not happen today or tomorrow, but I just feel
>>> necessary
>>> to share this roadmap with you. Some other features are wanted. Using
>>> Rome
>>> is one. Open GL is another. There are plenty of rooms for a very cool
>>> visualization engine.
>>>
>>> Probably during the holiday period I will consolidate the current version
>>> by
>>> fixing remaining bugs and produce 2.0.
>>>
>>> Bug tracker: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/
>>> Web page: http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/mondrian
>>>
>>> Let's render our dream!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Alexandre
>>>
>>> NB: sorry for this cross mailing list post.
>>> --
>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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