Moose-less version
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Hi guys.
I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else. Uko _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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What Moose-less contains then?
Alexandre On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi guys. > > I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else. > > Uko > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered. @Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you? Cheers,
Doru On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: What Moose-less contains then? "Every thing has its own flow"
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It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools. I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI Uko Sent from my iPhone
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Hi Yuriy, Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed: - Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details.
- White theme What other things don't you like and why? Doru On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Every thing has its own flow"
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I’m not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access. Also I like the idea that you don’t have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground. The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :). I really don’t think that my issue is something serious, but it’s a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn’t be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on. Uko On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Hi,
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote:
What do you mean by being far from what you access?
Playground should behave like the Workspace, too. What prevents you from having small playgrounds open without previewing?
That is because you are not using the white theme :)
Careful ... you are touching a sensitive coord ... GT is not a beta thing :)). Seriously, Moose will focus on a full experience. You can still choose to setup your image the way you want, but Moose will be a full image covering the entire development cycle.
I dislike belief-driven-policies because they prevent learning. If you do not say what the issue is, it is hard to get it addressed. It can cost a bit of effort at times, but overall everyone benefits.
Cheers, Doru
"Every thing has its own flow"
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On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:17, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
At the moment it’s hard to say. Las time I just notices that it took me more time to use debugger buttons
Makes sense. It was just disturbing when I wanted to do something fast and everything was different. Well, ok let’s try to understand the whole philosophy more and then I can talk in a more confident way.
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Thanks, Yuriy. We need to invent these tools dramatically. This is a huge opportunity both for Pharo and for Moose. The road will not be smooth all the time, but I think that the most difficult things are now a thing of the past. Doru On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Every thing has its own flow"
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Doru for the debugger may be you should have a version with text and icons.
Text is nice because I do not have to learn them by hearth I just read. Stef On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:48, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
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On 28 Mar 2014, at 21:25, Pharo4Stef <[hidden email]> wrote:
I second that :). (or Stef seconded my stuff ) Uko
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In reply to this post by Uko2
Hi Uko! I had the very same feeling at the beginning. How to move back to the old debugger and inspector was my first reaction. Now, that I use the debugger and the inspector, I cannot live without them. The inspector is really a major improvement in my opinion. The debugger could be significantly improved, yes. But I find the icons quite intuitive now. Andrei, where are the colors in the stack frame list? That would be so cool to have them... Cheers, Alexandre
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In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2
+ 1
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In reply to this post by abergel
This enables the colors on the stack: GTGenericStackDebugger enableStackColoring: true. It's on my todo list to improve this feature :) Cheers, Andrei
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by abergel
On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1. I've too lazy to provide any significant feedback but GTToolkit offers good services for debugging/object inspection. One point: I think it would be good if playground window had the same size as the classic workspace.
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+1. Talking about space distribution, GTToolkit could be significantly improved. Here is the small example I’ve just typed for Usman.  There is definitely too much wasted space from the top of the window until there is my code. Also, why is there a tab called “Playground”? and a tab “a RTView(a RTView)”? Maybe “State View Methods” could be at the level than the icon kind-of-file on the right hand side? Easy to do I guess: Would it be possible to order the tab as “View State Methods” ? and have View selected per default? This would be great great! Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by Andrei Chis
Thanks!
Why is this not per default? Anyone has an objection from having colored stack? Alexandre On Mar 28, 2014, at 8:56 PM, Andrei Chis <[hidden email]> wrote: > This enables the colors on the stack: GTGenericStackDebugger enableStackColoring: true. > It's on my todo list to improve this feature :) > > Cheers, > Andrei > > > > On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi Uko! > > I had the very same feeling at the beginning. How to move back to the old debugger and inspector was my first reaction. Now, that I use the debugger and the inspector, I cannot live without them. The inspector is really a major improvement in my opinion. The debugger could be significantly improved, yes. But I find the icons quite intuitive now. > > Andrei, where are the colors in the stack frame list? That would be so cool to have them... > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > Le 28-03-2014 à 11:04, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> a écrit : > >> I’m not used to a gt debugger. Debugging buttons have icons that are not easily understandable, they are located fa from another things that i access. Also I like the idea that you don’t have to spawn a new inspector when drilling down, but I like to have a small workspace to test out something and close rather than big window of gt-playground. >> >> The thing is that I was using Moose itself about a year ago. After that I was working only in Pharo. Now when I needed to do something in Moose fast, I found myself in the middle of dark technology :). I really don’t think that my issue is something serious, but it’s a religious point of view, that if user wants to use Moose he shouldn’t be forced to become a beta-tester of gt-toolkit and so on. >> >> Uko >> >> On 28 Mar 2014, at 14:45, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Yuriy, >>> >>> Please let's get concrete because only like that we can improve and learn from each other. Up to now, you listed: >>> - Autocompletion being turned off - I agree that this should be on, but as it is now it is a bit buggy - I did not yet raise my voice loudly because I did not have a chance of looking into it in more details. >>> - White theme >>> >>> What other things don't you like and why? >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> It works. Just that I prefer it the other way around. I get suggestions disabled I can enable them, but it takes some time. I get a white theme, I can switch to original one, but it takes time. And so on. Also when I try to introduce someone who knows Pharo to Moose I have also to introduce him to whole new tools. >>> >>> I'm not insisting on keeping it there, this is just a thing that saves time because Moose is loaded by CI >>> >>> Uko >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 28 Mar 2014, at 13:38, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> Apparently, it contains the code without having the Moose image setup being triggered. >>>> >>>> @Yuriy: Could you let us know what exactly does not work for you? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> What Moose-less contains then? >>>> >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Hi guys. >>>> > >>>> > I’ve created a “Moose-less” version https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/moose-5.0/1006/artifact/moose-5.0-less.zip because some people (including me of course) don’t want to have all IDE revamped to use the features of Moose. It’s created during a main Mosse build as it’s already there anyway. But if you don’t like it, I can move it to somewhere else. >>>> > >>>> > Uko >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Moose-dev mailing list >>>> > [hidden email] >>>> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Moose-dev mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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I added it to the image. It should be available with the next build. Doru On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: Thanks! "Every thing has its own flow"
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In reply to this post by abergel
Hi Alex, What you get to the right is a full inspector. This means that as you go to the right, you will encounter all sorts of objects. For an inspector, the first use case is to be able to identify the object you are looking at. Currently, we achieve it with an overall tab. That is why you see RTView on top.
I would love to get people working on widgets so that we can get smarter UIs, but at the moment I do not have another reasonable solution. Related to the order of presentations. The inspector is quite sensitive because it is the most basic tool we have in the image. In your case, you see the playground as an easel and you want the RTView to show the view. But, when people look at an inspector, the most prominent use case is to look at the state.
In any case, you can just play with things and we learn from it. Changing the order is a simple matter of changing the numbers in the pragma. See here: Cheers, Doru On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Every thing has its own flow"
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Ok, thanks.
I’ve just committed RTView>>gtInspectorViewIn: composite <gtInspectorPresentationOrder: -10> composite roassal2 title: 'View'; initializeView: [ self ] I hope this is fine with you guys Alexandre On Mar 31, 2014, at 2:08 AM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Alex, > > What you get to the right is a full inspector. This means that as you go to the right, you will encounter all sorts of objects. For an inspector, the first use case is to be able to identify the object you are looking at. Currently, we achieve it with an overall tab. That is why you see RTView on top. > > I would love to get people working on widgets so that we can get smarter UIs, but at the moment I do not have another reasonable solution. > > Related to the order of presentations. The inspector is quite sensitive because it is the most basic tool we have in the image. In your case, you see the playground as an easel and you want the RTView to show the view. But, when people look at an inspector, the most prominent use case is to look at the state. > > In any case, you can just play with things and we learn from it. Changing the order is a simple matter of changing the numbers in the pragma. See here: > http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/managing-gtinspector-extensions > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> +1. >> I've too lazy to provide any significant feedback but GTToolkit offers good services for debugging/object inspection. >> One point: I think it would be good if playground window had the same size as the classic workspace. > > Talking about space distribution, GTToolkit could be significantly improved. > Here is the small example I’ve just typed for Usman. > > <Screen Shot 2014-03-29 at 7.27.14 PM.png> > > There is definitely too much wasted space from the top of the window until there is my code. > Also, why is there a tab called “Playground”? and a tab “a RTView(a RTView)”? Maybe “State View Methods” could be at the level than the icon kind-of-file on the right hand side? > > Easy to do I guess: > Would it be possible to order the tab as “View State Methods” ? and have View selected per default? > This would be great great! > > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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